Gender fluid?

Dirty Dingus McGee

hotmail.com wrote: »

Must be easier ways of getting attention? Are you seriously suggesting he would do all this for attention?

The amount of abuse he's getting on here for example.

Not without having a talent there isn't.

He's not really getting much abuse just fairly genuine questions about what he claims is actual something real or not.

I am convinced that soon (if it hasn't already happened) some minor celebrity will claim to be gay/depressed etc purely to get attention for themselves and get a TV show , book deal etc on the back of it.

c montgomery

hotmail.com wrote: »

It does seem to bother you. Odd.

Meh, it bothers me about as much as the price of tic tacks in Tokyo

wonderfulname

deni20000 wrote: »

I was thinking of becoming gender fluid myself. There's some really hot looking girls in my local gym and if I was gender fluid I could use their changing room and see them naked. If anyone objected, I'd threaten to report them for violating my LGBTGF rights. I'll let you know if it works out.

So your argument is that the only thing preventing you from sexually harassing women is your gender? I think you have bigger problems than gender fluidity.

hotmail.com

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Not without having a talent there isn't.

He's not really getting much abuse just fairly genuine questions about what he claims is actual something real or not.

I am convinced that soon (if it hasn't already happened) some minor celebrity will claim to be gay/depressed etc purely to get attention for themselves and get a TV show , book deal etc on the back of it.

If there was no homophobs etc, they would get no attention. Perhaps use your energy to deal with homophobia.

folamh

Links234 wrote: »

You know, I've no idea about gender fluid, this is not something I've any experience of or do I know of anyone who says they're gender fluid either, I am honestly freakin' clueless about it. But you know what my attitude to the whole thing is? C'est la vie! It doesn't effect me, so I'm not going to be an asshole about it. Gonna get on with my life, because it's not something that's going to effect me.

Unlike you, I'm a female. I have to deal with issues such as menstruation, abortion, hysterectomy and penis-in-vagina rape (complete with fear of getting impregnated). I also have to deal with people regarding me with stereotypical notions of femininity upon seeing me, before they get to know me. Both in professional and interpersonal contexts.

Males will never have to deal with that, regardless of whether they're wearing a skirt or not. They can still "identify" as "female", despite not having any experiential knowledge of that biological nor social caste position.

And now, they can choose to identify with that oppressive social caste when the day fancies them, as per gender fluidity! What a dream. I would love to have the option to discard my femaleness as I see fit.

By the way, transwomen are just privilege denying dudes.

Banned

One eyed Jack

Links234 wrote: »

You know, I've no idea about gender fluid, this is not something I've any experience of or do I know of anyone who says they're gender fluid either, I am honestly freakin' clueless about it. But you know what my attitude to the whole thing is? C'est la vie! It doesn't effect me, so I'm not going to be an asshole about it. Gonna get on with my life, because it's not something that's going to effect me.

Here's the thing though. I have an issue with the "it doesn't affect me", because it effectively excuses people from having to acknowledge that people such as those who are 'gender fluid' do exist, and must be accommodated within society, not marginalised while we turn a blind eye and comfort ourselves with the thought that "it's nothing to do with me". Hasn't that been the selfish attitude displayed in the past towards people who are LGBT?

You're right of course, we don't have to be assholes about it, but I don't think we as a society should be embarrassed about it either or feel like it's too awkward a subject to be discussed. There are a minority of assholes in every society, but should we really allow them to control any attempts at discussion if what we're trying to do is reduce ignorance and intolerance in society, and foster understanding and mutual respect among people for each other?

I truly hope that one day we can drop all the, IMO, ridiculous identity labels and identity politics, and just see each other as people, human beings, as opposed to categorising people based on their self-identifying labels. Will we get to a point in society where we'll pass each other credit card sized ID tags with all our identity preferences on them?

I bloody hope not in my lifetime at least, that's just a depressing thought.

Dimithy

folamh wrote: »

Unlike you, I'm a female. I have to deal with issues such as menstruation, abortion, hysterectomy and penis-in-vagina rape (complete with fear of getting impregnated). I also have to deal with people regarding me with stereotypical notions of femininity upon seeing me, before they get to know me. Both in professional and interpersonal contexts.

Males will never have to deal with that, regardless of whether they're wearing a skirt or not. They can still "identify" as "female", despite not having any experiential knowledge of that biological nor social caste position.

And now, they can choose to identify with that oppressive social caste when the day fancies them, as per gender fluidity! What a dream. I would love to have the option to discard my femaleness as I see fit.

By the way, transwomen are just privilege denying dudes.

Was there a point to this, other than you trying to put someone down?

folamh

Dimithy wrote: »

Was there a point to this, other than you trying to put someone down?

I was challenging his belief that "c'est la vie". Gender has very real, tangible effects from birth, because of biology and because of how society regards you because of your biology.

Pretzill

folamh wrote: »

Unlike you, I'm a female. I have to deal with issues such as menstruation, abortion, hysterectomy and penis-in-vagina rape (complete with fear of getting impregnated). I also have to deal with people regarding me with stereotypical notions of femininity upon seeing me, before they get to know me. Both in professional and interpersonal contexts.



By the way, transwomen are just privilege denying dudes.

There are plenty of women who don't have to deal with that list of things you mentioned. And when it comes to rape I hope no woman goes around believing it is something she ever has to deal with. What this adds to the discussion is beyond me.

folamh

Pretzill wrote: »

There are plenty of women who don't have to deal with that list of things you mentioned. And when it comes to rape I hope no woman goes around believing it is something she ever has to deal with. What this adds to the discussion is beyond me.

And I happen to be such a woman! I don't menstruate and the chances of me getting impregnated are low due to fertility issues. However, I still have a uterus and XX chromosome. Transwomen do not, because they are male. They think being female is behavioral/performative rather than purely biological, because they are sexists.

wonderfulname

folamh wrote: »

And I happen to be such a woman! I don't menstruate and the chances of me getting impregnated are low due to fertility issues. However, I still have a uterus and XY chromosome. Transwomen do not, because they are male. They think being female is behavioral/performative rather than purely biological, because they are sexists.

Not all cisgender women have a uterus or xy chromosomes. Trans women do not perform the role of women, they are women, you're thinking of drag queens.

folamh

wonderfulname wrote: »

Not all cisgender women have a uterus or xy chromosomes. Trans women do not perform the role of women, they are women, you're thinking of drag queens.

Not all cisgender women have a uterus, however most of this demographic are post-hysterectomy (something transwomen wouldn't know about nor have to potentially deal with because they are male).

Also, transwomen are not women.

Dimithy

folamh wrote: »

I was challenging his belief that "c'est la vie". Gender has very real, tangible effects from birth, because of biology and because of how society regards you because of your biology.

No you weren't, if thats all you were doing you would have left out the "unlike you, I'm a REAL woman" bull****.

Links234

folamh wrote: »

Unlike you, I'm a female.

folamh wrote: »

his

Not rising to the bait, thanks

Royal Legend

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As long as he does not get a "rachel" hairstyle like yer wan in the friends sitcom because that would be really weird. Also would jean byrnes dresses fit him?

whats the difference, once the weird cnut stays on the radio no one will be any the wiser, even if he wears crotchless knickers :eek:

folamh

Dimithy wrote: »

No you weren't, if thats all you were doing you would have left out the "unlike you, I'm a REAL woman" bull****.

It's not bull**** to reject a man's claim to be a woman. Men aren't women just because they say so. Also, quit insulting women by implying that men can be women. Thank you.

Diamond Doll

folamh wrote: »

Unlike you, I'm a female. I have to deal with issues such as menstruation, abortion, hysterectomy and penis-in-vagina rape (complete with fear of getting impregnated). I also have to deal with people regarding me with stereotypical notions of femininity upon seeing me, before they get to know me. Both in professional and interpersonal contexts.

Males will never have to deal with that, regardless of whether they're wearing a skirt or not. They can still "identify" as "female", despite not having any experiential knowledge of that biological nor social caste position.

And now, they can choose to identify with that oppressive social caste when the day fancies them, as per gender fluidity! What a dream. I would love to have the option to discard my femaleness as I see fit.

By the way, transwomen are just privilege denying dudes.

I would hope that I'm in the majority of straight, female-by-birth women when I say that this horrible prejudiced opinion is not how most women feel about transgender women who were born as men.

Sure periods etc are a pain in the arse, but how in the name of f*ck does that even compare to the pain and suffering that must go with being born a woman but having a man's body? I can't even imagine!

As for abortions and rape and hysterectomies and the rest - come on, seriously? It's hardly a day-to-day issue (and anyways, transgender women - whether pre or post op - can most certainly get raped too, and it's not going to be any less traumatic for them.)

I don't identify with being transexual, or with gender fluidity. But I most certainly don't identify with a woman like you, either, and I never want to know what it's like to have your mindset.

stephenl15

Diamond Doll wrote: »

Sure periods etc are a pain in the arse, but how in the name of f*ck does that even compare to the pain and suffering that must go with being born a woman but having a man's body? I can't even imagine!
.

But that just makes you a man. Everything about you is male, how does that make you a woman. You can't just choose your gender.

deni20000

Lyaiera wrote: »

That's really creepy.

It's like all those male American politicians who say, "I'll walk into a woman's changing room and stare at them because of this law." And not realising that's a reflection on their pervertedness as creepy men and not anyone who's trans or gender fluid.

If you're first thought is to exploit something so you can gawk at people in their undercrackers you need to take a long look at yourself. And stay away from people.

It was a joke Lyaiera just to wind up politically correct people with no sense of humour - like you.

strelok

stephenl15 wrote: »

But that just makes you a man. Everything about you is male, how does that make you a woman. You can't just choose your gender.

there are actually differences in the brains of transgender people, it is a real condition

whether or not you consider them exactly 100% the same as eh.. "biological" women and men is up to you.

Royal Legend

Diamond Doll wrote: »

I would hope that I'm in the majority of straight, female-by-birth women when I say that this horrible prejudiced opinion is not how most women feel about transgender women who were born as men.

Sure periods etc are a pain in the arse, but how in the name of f*ck does that even compare to the pain and suffering that must go with being born a woman but having a man's body? I can't even imagine!

As for abortions and rape and hysterectomies and the rest - come on, seriously? It's hardly a day-to-day issue (and anyways, transgender women - whether pre or post op - can most certainly get raped too, and it's not going to be any less traumatic for them.)

I don't identify with being transexual, or with gender fluidity. But I most certainly don't identify with a woman like you, either, and I never want to know what it's like to have your mindset.

But you are missing her point, by the sounds of it this person wants to be known as both a man and a woman, he is nearly as bad as Jack Grealish who cannot make up his mind whether he is Irish or English. Get off the fence Jonathan/Rachel and decide what you want to be. this sounds like someones head is a bit fkuced up to be honest, probably for his/her own mental health, not someone that should be in the public limelight.
Before I get tagged homophobic, for example Frank Warren came out and decided to be a woman, fair play.

Dimithy

deni20000 wrote: »

It was a joke Lyaiera just to wind up politically correct people with no sense of humour - like you.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/738/029/397.jpg

eviltwin

folamh wrote: »

Unlike you, I'm a female. I have to deal with issues such as menstruation, abortion, hysterectomy and penis-in-vagina rape (complete with fear of getting impregnated). I also have to deal with people regarding me with stereotypical notions of femininity upon seeing me, before they get to know me. Both in professional and interpersonal contexts.

Males will never have to deal with that, regardless of whether they're wearing a skirt or not. They can still "identify" as "female", despite not having any experiential knowledge of that biological nor social caste position.

And now, they can choose to identify with that oppressive social caste when the day fancies them, as per gender fluidity! What a dream. I would love to have the option to discard my femaleness as I see fit.

By the way, transwomen are just privilege denying dudes.

Probably one of the most disgusting pieces of vitriol I've ever read on boards. As Diamond Doll says you don't speak for the majority of women.

Links234

Royal Legend wrote: »

But you are missing her point

No, I don't think she missed the point at all, that was a pretty deliberate personal attack directed at me, not in reference to story in the OP

Valmont

The important thing here is not to confuse gender and sex. Jonathan Rachel Clynch can identify in whatever way he/she (how can we tell whether to say he or she given his/her gender identity at any given moment?) wants but every cell in his or her body is irredeemably male (biologically speaking). To each his own I say!

Dirty Dingus McGee

Royal Legend wrote: »

But you are missing her point, by the sounds of it this person wants to be known as both a man and a woman, he is nearly as bad as Jack Grealish who cannot make up his mind whether he is Irish or English. Get off the fence Jonathan/Rachel and decide what you want to be. this sounds like someones head is a bit fkuced up to be honest, probably for his/her own mental health, not someone that should be in the public limelight.
Before I get tagged homophobic, for example Frank Warren came out and decided to be a woman, fair play.

When did that happen?

1 boxing promoter changing genders is surprising but 2 in the space of 12 months is quite incredible.

Valmont

strelok wrote: »

there are actually differences in the brains of transgender people, it is a real condition

Condition?! I was at a 'gender dysphoria' conference recently and the audience thoroughly disagreed that they were in any way mentally ill. The consensus at this event seemed to be that depathologising transgender people would remove their entitlements and encourage the bigots. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

Diamond Doll

stephenl15 wrote: »

But that just makes you a man. Everything about you is male, how does that make you a woman. You can't just choose your gender.

Of course you can't choose your gender. You just ARE your gender. And what if that gender you are happens to be male, in your mind, and your body happens to be female? Or vice versa?

You only live one life. If I knew and believed myself to have been born in the body of the incorrect gender, damn right I'd do everything I could to correct it and to live my life as I should. And I wouldn't hesitate to support a child of mine, or a friend of mine, or a complete stranger to do the exact same thing.

I don't need to be in that position to have some empathy of how difficult it must be.

strelok

Valmont wrote: »

Condition?! I was at a 'gender dysphoria' conference recently and the audience thoroughly disagreed that they were in any way mentally ill. The consensus at this event seemed to be that depathologising transgender people would remove their entitlements and encourage the bigots. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

i meant condition in the sense of... human condition, the condition of my bed after a night on the beer, etc etc.. not mental or sickness.

it's a real manifestation of actual physical differences in the brains of transgender people, if that makes it any clearer.

Royal Legend

Links234 wrote: »

No, I don't think she missed the point at all, that was a pretty deliberate personal attack directed at me, not in reference to story in the OP

the way i pick her quote up is that you cannot choose and slip between the two, you are either one or the other. As i said Frank Warren chose to be a woman as he felt he was born a woman in a mans body, i can only guess the pain the man went through all his life, especially in regards to the sport he was involved in. but the difference is, he made his choice and stuck to it, this bollox of well today I am a woman and I am going to wear a dress and probably tomorrow I will dress as a man sounds to me like someone is a bit mentally fcuked up.
That's just my opinion but I am not a psychiatrist.