Gender fluid?

Fukuyama

Links234 wrote: »

Bathrooms and locker rooms are a source of extreme anxiety for a lot of trans people. I once got a kidney infection because I held it in so long because I was out for a pint and I was too afraid to use the toilets in the pub, I held it until I went home. These days I don't have an issue, nobody seem to take any notice of me, but yes when I first started transition, things were painfully awkward. Changing rooms are a whole other story, I wouldn't go to any swimming pool or gym or anything like that.

Didn't realise you were transgender. Never noticed your mod status for the Transgender forum either.

If you don't mind I have a question. Feel free not to answer to obviously if it's too personal. I'm not close to the LGBT community really. I've no relations or close friends that are so I never find myself being able to ask people crap.

I googled this but the answers are always ... confusing. Sometimes the answers are "same as for straight people" which I think avoids the issue posed in the question.

Basically - how do relationships for trans people work?

I mean, numerically, in a small country like Ireland there can't be plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak. I don't even know what the population density is for trans people...

For example if a woman were to transition into being a man, get the operation etc... it must be quite hard to find a straight woman who will be comfortable with it?

Same would go for man transitioning into a woman. I'm fairly open minded but that'd be outside my comfort zone.

I've never heard of a straight person dating a trans person. Do trans people just date other trans people?

Sorry if that's woefully stupid question. I've just genuinely never seen or heard the issue explained.

padd b1975

So who would win in a race between him and Miriam O' Callaghan for the last free urinal?

Lyaiera

Fukuyama wrote: »

Didn't realise you were transgender. Never noticed your mod status for the Transgender forum either.

If you don't mind I have a question. Feel free not to answer to obviously if it's too personal. I'm not close to the LGBT community really. I've no relations or close friends that are so I never find myself being able to ask people crap.

I googled this but the answers are always ... confusing. Sometimes the answers are "same as for straight people" which I think avoids the issue posed in the question.

Basically - how do relationships for trans people work?

I mean, numerically, in a small country like Ireland there can't be plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak. I don't even know what the population density is for trans people...

For example if a woman were to transition into being a man, get the operation etc... it must be quite hard to find a straight woman who will be comfortable with it?

Same would go for man transitioning into a woman. I'm fairly open minded but that'd be outside my comfort zone.

I've never heard of a straight person dating a trans person. Do trans people just date other trans people?

Sorry if that's woefully stupid question. I've just genuinely never seen or heard the issue explained.

I've been propositioned for one night stands, and asked out in a relationship sense. The one night stand requests are often a bit skeevy. And I haven't been in the right frame of mind for it any time (I'm having a quiet night out, or out with friends.) I've been asked out on dates and in a relationship sense as well. One person in specific I really like, and would happily chat away to and we're still friendly, but I just didn't see him as someone I could have a relationship like that with.

It's rarer to be asked out (although being propositioned isn't as rare.) It does happen though. A partner being trans isn't an issue for quite a few people, even if it is for a lot of people. I guess you just deal with it.

Renegade Mechanic

I suppose now is as good a time as any to come out...


I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on innocent foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m f*cking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you all to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and destroy needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

Fukuyama

strelok wrote: »

.. and then you have these muppets who just tra-la-la along between being a woman and a man depending on their mood? it's a joke

if you're a man and you want to wear a dress and throw some make up on, just wear a dress and throw some ****ing make up on.

Again I can't give you answers. I try to keep an open mind but I also try not to open it so much that my brain falls out.

However, nobody who is a man would do this because they're a muppet. There has to be something there. If we're confused imagine what the person is feeling.

I dunno about the dress thing. Maybe for some it's a simple as wanting to cross dress. I've watched a few documentaries and it doesn't look that black and white to me.

To be honest I don't understand it. I can accept trans-gendered people though or anyone else who feels they aren't fully a man/woman/whatever. I've seen a few documentaries featuring people with gender issues. Many of them wind up killing themselves because they can't get on top of it or, perhaps crucially, the people around them can't.

It doesn't take any more or less effort for me to refer to someone as female or male.

hatrickpatrick

Fukuyama wrote: »

Hmm.

What I wouldn't like is being called a homophobe or some other form of phobe for not keeping up with it. I will agree that at time you can blink and suddenly you're some dark age oppressor.

I've also heard that the LGBT community isn't all that accepting. Bi-sexuals get a hard old time among lesbians in particular.

There are also way too many people taking women studies / gender studies degrees in the US. They emerge at the age of 21 thinking they're an authority who can define people. I've seen LGBT with loads of letters. Half I couldn't even guess. And until a few months ago I thought "queer" was a derogatory term.

I think what we need is a new "movement" which also includes straight people - arguably the biggest mobilized force in support of the LGBT community as seen in the recent referendum. This movement would basically be for anyone who accepts people for whatever gender, sexuality or lack-there-of that they are and realize it doesn't impact on your life in any big way.

I think the actual gender profiling should be left to scientists with Tumblr BAs excluded from the process.

As far as I'm concerned what you're advocating is demographic egalitarianism which is what I personally subscribe to. That we don't judge people based on demographic except where there are tangible, scientific reasons to do so (for example, some laws which treat minors differently to adults because for instance it's scientifically accepted that drinking or smoking is more harmful to a developing body than to a mature one, or because it's known that in very young people the brain hasn't developed enough for any crimes committed to be considered with the same level of malicious intent as an adult, etc).

My issue is that I think this drive to increase the number of labels is harmful to that idea of a demographic blind, non-judgmental society. Instead of continually inventing new labels to box people into, I'd much prefer to see a movement which says "labels are irrelevant, a person is a person and deserves to be treated with respect - end of story".

Links234

Fukuyama wrote: »

Basically - how do relationships for trans people work?

I mean, numerically, in a small country like Ireland there can't be plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak. I don't even know what the population density is for trans people.

You would probably be surprised how many people would date trans folks

strelok

Fukuyama wrote: »

However, nobody who is a man would do this because they're a muppet. There has to be something there. If we're confused imagine what the person is feeling.

you do know what species we're all members of right?

there is no idiocy the human race won't leap head first into. there are people out there who genuinely believe they are trans-racial. there are people out there who genuinely believe they are various animals or spirits trapped in human form.

these people aren't insane, they're just idiots. they're no different from you or me, their particular idiocy just manifests in ways they can't hide in wider society. genderfluid, agender, pangender, trigender... this is all the same stuff that's born of desperately trying not to be like the bigots of the past so people find themselves unable to place any reasonable limits on anything. everything exists because we says it does, if I can get enough people to agree that my gender is a tree then who the hell are you to say it isn't.

it's nonsense. if any actual science comes out to support it I'll happily eat my words but this is not like homosexuality or transgender or racial issues. this is just ridiculous.

Fukuyama

Lyaiera wrote: »

I've been propositioned for one night stands, and asked out in a relationship sense. The one night stand requests are often a bit skeevy. And I haven't been in the right frame of mind for it any time (I'm having a quiet night out, or out with friends.) I've been asked out on dates and in a relationship sense as well. One person in specific I really like, and would happily chat away to and we're still friendly, but I just didn't see him as someone I could have a relationship like that with.

It's rarer to be asked out (although being propositioned isn't as rare.) It does happen though. A partner being trans isn't an issue for quite a few people, even if it is for a lot of people. I guess you just deal with it.

I get all that but I get lost once specifics are mentioned. I'm generally not one to tip toes around issues like this but at the same time I don't want to be crude when asking you personal questions on a public forum...so yeah, feel free not answer.

Are you M to F or F to M?

Have the propositions come from within the LGBT community? Or just random straight people.

To me, adding a trans person seems to complicate a relationship quite a bit. It's like a homosexual relationship to the power of 16 potentially when you consider all the different possibilities/combinations. :eek:

In my view, if a straight man were to have a sexual relationship with a transwoman that was pre-op, I'd say that man must be either gay himself or somewhere along the spectrum, anyways. I'd find it difficult to consider it a totally straight relationship even though both, in my view, would be a man and a woman.

But if she was post-op... maybe not? I don't know.... It's not that I have a problem with trans people it's just I've never met one (that I know off... do people pass well?). I don't know how I would consider a relationship with a post-op trans woman even though I would consider her to be a woman. It's honestly a mind fcuk with a dash of hypocrisy thrown in.

Massimo Cassagrande

I thought this was going to be about some sort of new lube tbh.

Fukuyama

strelok wrote: »

you do know what species we're all members of right?

there is no idiocy the human race won't leap head first into. there are people out there who genuinely believe they are trans-racial. there are people out there who genuinely believe they are various animals or spirits trapped in human form.

these people aren't insane, they're just idiots. they're no different from you or me, their particular idiocy just manifests in ways they can't hide in wider society. genderfluid, agender, pangender, trigender... this is all the same stuff that's born of desperately trying not to be like the bigots of the past so people find themselves unable to place any reasonable limits on anything. everything exists because we says it does, if I can get enough people to agree that my gender is a tree then who the hell are you to say it isn't.

it's nonsense. if any actual science comes out to support it I'll happily eat my words but this is not like homosexuality or transgender or racial issues. this is just ridiculous.

Fair enough. I mean, I can't say you're wrong. And yes if a white person asked me to refer to them as a black person I'd think they were crazy.

I also dislike the no-holds-barred social acceptance the comes out of tumblr and third-wave feminism.

However, I really think that gender and sexuality are one of the most complex aspects of the human mind. It's how we procreate. It motivates everything we do even if we pretend it doesn't. And it's also the most "messed up" and suppressed aspect of practically all of us.

Again, I can't say you're wrong because I'm not a scientist. And you're right that acceptance has become essentially a buzzword which, if you go against you get labelled a bigot. And this ironically prevents free and open debate as it stifles often legitimate points.

However, I don't think calling people muppets or insulting them is helpful. Gender/sexuality is an area that is widely acknowledged as being confusing even for scientists.

RWCNT

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on innocent foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m f*cking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you all to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and destroy needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

I was waiting for one of these guys right here to show up. Satire at its most original *slow, sarcastic clap*

Lyaiera

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

My issue is that I think this drive to increase the number of labels is harmful to that idea of a demographic blind, non-judgmental society. Instead of continually inventing new labels to box people into, I'd much prefer to see a movement which says "labels are irrelevant, a person is a person and deserves to be treated with respect - end of story".

I think you'll find that's a journey that a lot of people go through. If you're raised a cis boy but you're actually a trans girl, there comes a stage where you have to reject one label and claim your own label. Similarly if society presumes you're straight (young boys being asked is their new female friend their girlfriend) there comes a point where you have to say, "I am not this thing, I am actually this thing." Forming an identity of who you are is extremely important, especially if you were given an identity not of your own. Or in other cases if you faced issues because of the identity you were given (women being expected to mind the babies at the expense of job satisfaction, men being expected to be stoic in the face of hardship.) Identity is extremely important when the wrong one is forced on you, or when you're expected to be one thing but you're actually another.

I think as you become more comfortable and as you face less hassle over your real identity, these issues start to fade away. If someone comes up to you and starts telling you need psychiatric help, or you're being deceptive there's of course a natural tendency to reassert who you are, through whatever means.

But you also start to build strength in yourself, a strength in your identity where you don't need to assert these things. I'm far more involved with the notion of an identity as a writer than as a trans woman because being a writer is more important to me, while being a trans woman should really be irrelevant to the vast majority of things. Really being trans is a ****ing pain in the arse, with doctor visits, legal issues, superficial issues, body issues, and people giving you hassle for just sitting doing nothing. Being trans is a part of me, but only a small part, especially when I've carved out a much stronger idea of myself through my writing, photography, the careers I've worked, the people I know and the things I consume (for all that's wrong with consumer culture.)

Some people become embedded in fighting for respect of their identity, and I think it's great that people are doing this or we wouldn't have legislation for workplace protections, or access to healthcare, etc. When you get hassled about who you are for just sitting at a bar and drinking a drink with your friends of course who you are is going to be more important, just as it is when you're defining who you are. For a lot of people though being trans, or gay, bisexual, or a man, or a woman, is far less important than being a train driver, or an author, or a dancer, or Tayto aficionado. But sometimes people don't even look at that, and instead focus on what clothes you wear, or what surgeries you may or may not want.

I don't mind talking about being trans, at least some of the time. I think it'd be great if more people understood some of the issues because it'd mean less hassle. A lot of the time though I just want to sit quietly at a bar and make conversation with the guy sitting next to me to pass the time, and being trans shouldn't have anything to do with that.

Fukuyama

Links234 wrote: »

You would probably be surprised how many people would date trans folks

I'm more surprised that every answer is always really cryptic like this one, tbh. Normally with some implied undertone that I'm not getting.

Like if it's a case that some men enjoy the female form but with a penis, then okay. But why is it never talked about?

Seriously, google the question and you'll see that it's basically an answer that nobody seems to know. Even working it out mathematically blows my mind. The combinations are endless. The calculus involved in quantifying the combinations in a transgender orgy would make Einstein's mind explode.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It's not daft at all. Young kids have committed suicide because they've been cyberbullied. The idea to me that we should allow minor forms of hate speech go unchallenged to me is the real daft idea.

1 there are direct consequences of suicide
2 If minor hate speech becomes acceptable then we eventually end up with it growing into different more extreme forms.

Loads of people have committed suicide over unrequited love,no job etc etc.

Does this mean those things can't be allowed to happen anymore.

Should every woman I approach be obliged to sleep with me for fear I might kill myself due to being rejected?

Arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to criticise someone or say something that might cause offence because people can't deal with it is completely daft.

Lyaiera

Fukuyama wrote: »

I get all that but I get lost once specifics are mentioned. I'm generally not one to tip toes around issues like this but at the same time I don't want to be crude when asking you personal questions on a public forum...so yeah, feel free not answer.

Are you M to F or F to M?

Have the propositions come from within the LGBT community? Or just random straight people.

To me, adding a trans person seems to complicate a relationship quite a bit. It's like a homosexual relationship to the power of 16 potentially when you consider all the different possibilities/combinations. :eek:

In my view, if a straight man were to have a sexual relationship with a transwoman that was pre-op, I'd say that man must be either gay himself or somewhere along the spectrum, anyways. I'd find it difficult to consider it a totally straight relationship even though both, in my view, would be a man and a woman.

But if she was post-op... maybe not? I don't know.... It's not that I have a problem with trans people it's just I've never met one (that I know off... do people pass well?). I don't know how I would consider a relationship with a post-op trans woman even though I would consider her to be a woman. It's honestly a mind fcuk with a dash of hypocrisy thrown in.

I'm male to female.

And the propositions have generally been from straight people, in fact they've all been from straight people. I suspect a few of the relationship proposals have been from ostensibly straight people but they're actually in the closet about being bi.

Really though, none of that concerns me. And I don't see why it should concern anyone. Who cares whether the person is straight, or bi, or gay. Or if the relationship is a straight one or a gay one. It's not important. What is important is that we connect as people, that we like each other, that we're attracted to each other and that our annoying little habits don't infuriate the other person.

I told someone I know that I was asked out by someone (I turned him down) and he asked, "Is he gay, or bi, or?" And I really don't see why that's in any way important. He asked me out, he seemed to like me, so it must mean he's attracted to me, not some idea of someone who is a man (and therefore he's gay) or a woman (and therefore he's straight.) People are attracted to the people they're attracted to, who cares what that means about classifications until we're filling out the census.

Of course then you bring into it the fetish/conquest aspect of it where people proposition you not because of who you are, but because you're trans. But they've been fairly easy to spot so far.

Renegade Mechanic

RWCNT wrote: »

I was waiting for one of these guys right here to show up. Satire at its most original *slow, sarcastic clap*

That wasn't slow enough mate, you really need to draw it out more. Your lips should subtly curl into a contemptuous sneer as you do, too.

Fukuyama

Lyaiera wrote: »

I'm male to female.

And the propositions have generally been from straight people, in fact they've all been from straight people. I suspect a few of the relationship proposals have been from ostensibly straight people but they're actually in the closet about being bi.

Really though, none of that concerns me. And I don't see why it should concern anyone. Who cares whether the person is straight, or bi, or gay. Or if the relationship is a straight one or a gay one. It's not important. What is important is that we connect as people, that we like each other, that we're attracted to each other and that our annoying little habits don't infuriate the other person.

I told someone I know that I was asked out by someone (I turned him down) and he asked, "Is he gay, or bi, or?" And I really don't see why that's in any way important. He asked me out, he seemed to like me, so it must mean he's attracted to me, not some idea of someone who is a man (and therefore he's gay) or a woman (and therefore he's straight.) People are attracted to the people they're attracted to, who cares what that means about classifications until we're filling out the census.

Of course then you bring into it the fetish/conquest aspect of it where people proposition you not because of who you are, but because you're trans. But they've been fairly easy to spot so far.

I dunno. To be honest I'm at a loss for words here.

To me, gay, bi, straight etc... are all fairly massive components of a relationship. They're normally automatic but when they're not, surely the gears must grind a bit and people have to consider what they're stepping into.

This isn't about classifying people as X, Y or Z. I'm just trying to understand it.

If a straight man were to find himself attracted to a trans person he'd likely be questioning himself right away. Unless she passed for a woman which I guess is possible.

But at some point he's going to realize that there's a fairly substantial biological obstacle in the way of a sex life. Either she's pre-op and well, there's a penis. Or she's post op and he has to consider whether he interprets that as a female in the same way he would a 'normal' female.

There's more than one way to skin a cat and all that, I know. But to just ignore the issue and say "people are attracted to people" doesn't really do justice to the immense complexities that must arise.

Same for the opposite way around.

I'm not saying that a straight-trans relationships isn't a straight relationship. I'm saying it's a different form which, to me, simply has to come with a very rapid revelation particularly for the straight person.

I don't know. Effectively we're both singing from different hymn sheets. I have an easier time understanding the theory of relativity.

Lyaiera

Fukuyama wrote: »

I dunno. To be honest I'm at a loss for words here.

To me, gay, bi, straight etc... are all fairly massive components of a relationship. They're normally automatic but when they're not, surely the gears must grind a bit and people have to consider what they're stepping into.

This isn't about classifying people as X, Y or Z. I'm just trying to understand it.

If a straight man were to find himself attracted to a trans person he'd likely be questioning himself right away. Unless she passed for a woman which I guess is possible.

But at some point he's going to realize that there's a fairly substantial biological obstacle in the way of a sex life. Either she's pre-op and well, there's a penis. Or she's post op and he has to consider whether he interprets that as a female in the same way he would a 'normal' female.

There's more than one way to skin a cat and all that, I know. But to just ignore the issue and say "people are attracted to people" doesn't really do justice to the immense complexities that must arise.

Same for the opposite way around.

I'm not saying that a straight-trans relationships isn't a straight relationship. I'm saying it's a different form which, to me, simply has to come with a very rapid revelation particularly for the straight person.

I don't know. Effectively we're both singing from different hymn sheets. I have an easier time understanding the theory of relativity.

Well, I'm openly trans, so that wasn't going to be a surprise to anyone.

I just don't see how it's an issue. Someone wants to go out with me, or anyone, and all that entails, so what's the problem?

You seem to be caught up on thinking "Am I gay, or am I straight?" Who cares? What blind bit of difference does it make if you're both happy with each other?

The problem with me saying all that is that it is an issue. It shouldn't be for the couple, but other people will make it an issue when no-one should care. You might get hassle in the street, or people being abusive, or questioning things about you.

Do you really think it's appropriate for the millions of straight couples to compare themselves to others, or a gay couple to think, "Is this relationship style suitably gay?" No-one cares about that, they just like each other and get on with life.

Massimo Cassagrande

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

That wasn't slow enough mate, you really need to draw it out more. Your lips should subtly curl into a contemptuous sneer as you do, too.

Don't be annoyed - they're probably just jealous of your magnificent chopper.

Although identifying as an aircraft does sound a bit odd tbh. I presumed you were joking. You were joking..right?? Erm, Mr/Ms Apache.

Boring username

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I suppose now is as good a time as any to come out...


I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on innocent foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m f*cking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you all to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and destroy needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

I want to be gender fluid German WWII fighter plane........
















I'll be known as Mr and Messerschmitt.

Fukuyama

Lyaiera wrote: »

Well, I'm openly trans, so that wasn't going to be a surprise to anyone.

I just don't see how it's an issue. Someone wants to go out with me, or anyone, and all that entails, so what's the problem?

You seem to be caught up on thinking "Am I gay, or am I straight?" Who cares? What blind bit of difference does it make if you're both happy with each other?

The problem with me saying all that is that it is an issue. It shouldn't be for the couple, but other people will make it an issue when no-one should care. You might get hassle in the street, or people being abusive, or questioning things about you.

Do you really think it's appropriate for the millions of straight couples to compare themselves to others, or a gay couple to think, "Is this relationship style suitably gay?" No-one cares about that, they just like each other and get on with life.

See I don't even know what it means to be "Openly Trans". There's a metric fcuk tonne of undefined aspects which I would deem fairly important.

I suppose not really passing as a female would 'force' a person to be open about it. But then others might just inform people once it became obvious that they needed to know?

Sexuality is important. You dismiss it as though it's not. It determines who we find attractive/compatible.

I mean - I've seen transgender models who look stunning, visually as females. And they'd obviously pass as regular females as though they were born as female. But, to my experience anyways, if the average man who would find them attractive, and most would, discovered they were trans, interest would be lost to say the very least.

So how can a 'normally straight' person overcome that?

The sexuality of trans people seems to be an undefined variable. And the people who are attracted to trans people are even more undefined. They're basically just a hybrid of straight/gay/bi all in one. But at the same time, entirely none of those things at all.

Lyaiera

Fukuyama wrote: »

See I don't even know what it means to be "Openly Trans". There's a metric fcuk tonne of undefined aspects which I would deem fairly important.

I suppose not really passing as a female would 'force' a person to be open about it. But then others might just inform people once it became obvious that they needed to know?

Sexuality is important. You dismiss it as though it's not. It determines who we find attractive/compatible.

I mean - I've seen transgender models who look stunning, visually as females. And they'd obviously pass as regular females as though they were born as female. But, to my experience anyways, if the average man who would find them attractive, and most would, discovered they were trans, interest would be lost to say the very least.

So how can a 'normally straight' person overcome that?

The sexuality of trans people seems to be an undefined variable. And the people who are attracted to trans people are even more undefined. They're basically just a hybrid of straight/gay/bi all in one. But at the same time, entirely none of those things at all.

Openly trans means you don't hide that you're trans

And you're talking about fictitious men looking at a picture online. Some mythical creature who exists only to be a figurehead for "straight men" or "gay men." The reality is there are trans people in relationships. The reality is I have been propositioned, and asked out, and people have said they'd like to be in a relationship with me.

You're acting like there's rules to sexuality, and attraction, and relationships that have to be adhered to. "You kissed a girl, hand in your gay card."

People are attracted to the people they're attracted to. They ask out the people they want to ask out. They have sex with their lovers. They wake up in the morning to their friend.

You're saying sexuality is important, but you're talking about categories people have imposed on sexuality. Sexuality is simply being attracted to someone. Loving someone is wanting to be in a relationship with someone. Why does this have to adhere to some codified system of what is or isn't straight, or gay, or bi, or kink, or whatever?

If you're attracted to someone, surely that's all that matter? Surely being attracted to someone is your sexuality. It's your sexuality, not what someone on the internet is defining it as.

Links234

Fukuyama wrote: »

I'm more surprised that every answer is always really cryptic like this one, tbh. Normally with some implied undertone that I'm not getting.

Sorry if that came across as cryptic, a lot of trans people don't have a problem finding dates, some do, but it's the same with anyone. I think a lot of people who are ignorant of trans people project their own ideas of what it is to be transgender onto others, they might have some distorted idea of what a trans person is and make their assumptions based on that. Like lets look at what you've posted:

Fukuyama wrote: »

Unless she passed for a woman which I guess is possible.

Which you guess is possible? Really? I don't know if you know many trans people. But like, supposedly actress Jamie Clayton (right) is currently dating Keanu Reeves, and likewise, I don't think Aydian Dowling is gonna be lacking dating opportunities. And you know, 'cos trans people are only a small percentage of the population, on numbers alone there's gonna be a load of people who're ok with dating trans people. And then yes, a lot of trans people will date other trans people.

Clandestine

I sexually identify as a single, Pringle, ready to mingle. Ever since I was a potato I dreamed of being thin sliced, covered in disgusting oil then heated in a medium oven until reaching climax at the micro second of golden-browness. People bully me, and say things like “what the ****, you aren’t a Pringle”, but I know deep down they are just jealous of my inner beauty. I have already started hiding in cylinders all day, and now im improving my crunchiness by regularly burning my sides on the stove. I want you guys to respect my natural ability to instantly satisfy low salt carb cravings, and if you don’t you are oppressing me, and you should check your diabetes type. Thank you for being so understanding.

humanji

MOD: I know very little about trans-issues. I don't know any trans people and I have no idea what, if any, problems they deal with in their day to day lives. For me personally it's a non-issue. I have other things to worry about, because this doesn't affect me or anyone I know.

So what I don't do is belittle trans-people because I don't understand. I don't pretend they don't exist because I don't understand. And I don't pretend that they don't have issues just because I don't understand. To do so would be stupid. So please, everyone, don't be stupid. Don't pretend something you don't understand doesn't exist. If you've got the scientific data to prove it doesn't exist, then by all means present it. But since I know none of you do, just don't break that one rule that's prevailent across the internet: "DON'T BE A DICK!". It's not something we're always asked to do, but please try and think about the fact that there are other humans on Earth other than you. Don't try and wind them up, just because you're too lazy to try and learn something new or make an effort to disprove something.

You're not being asked to pander to people. You don't even have to completely take the thread seriously (like BoringUsername's awesome joke above that I'll be stealing). Just don't go out of you're way to insult people for the sake of it. You shouldn't even have to be asked to not do this.

Fukuyama

Lyaiera wrote: »

Openly trans means you don't hide that you're trans

And you're talking about fictitious men looking at a picture online. Some mythical creature who exists only to be a figurehead for "straight men" or "gay men." The reality is there are trans people in relationships. The reality is I have been propositioned, and asked out, and people have said they'd like to be in a relationship with me.

You're acting like there's rules to sexuality, and attraction, and relationships that have to be adhered to. "You kissed a girl, hand in your gay card."

People are attracted to the people they're attracted to. They ask out the people they want to ask out. They have sex with their lovers. They wake up in the morning to their friend.

You're saying sexuality is important, but you're talking about categories people have imposed on sexuality. Sexuality is simply being attracted to someone. Loving someone is wanting to be in a relationship with someone. Why does this have to adhere to some codified system of what is or isn't straight, or gay, or bi, or kink, or whatever?

If you're attracted to someone, surely that's all that matter? Surely being attracted to someone is your sexuality. It's your sexuality, not what someone on the internet is defining it as.

See, this is the stop where I get off. I don't believe in just constructing vague "social science" argument which, lets be honest, don't stand up to scrutiny and answer exactly nobody's questions.

Imagine if homosexuality was never defined or studied. We'd have a bunch of people with zero evidence as to what they are.

Sexuality is not some made up construct of society as you infer. It is a primal compulsion which, although malleable, normally doesn't veer off course. It can be categorized and understood.

If we ignore fundamental parts of what makes us "us" then we might as well just ignore personality, dispositions to depression, psychopathy etc...

I am grateful that you tried to answer my question. But you basically just responded by telling me how wrong I am about the whole thing and that I'm pushing people in societal roles. If anything, I'm trying to uncover the exact opposite.

Links234 wrote: »

Which you guess is possible? Really? I don't know if you know many trans people. But like, supposedly actress Jamie Clayton (right) is currently dating Keanu Reeves, and likewise, I don't think Aydian Dowling is gonna be lacking dating opportunities. And you know, 'cos trans people are only a small percentage of the population, on numbers alone there's gonna be a load of people who're ok with dating trans people. And then yes, a lot of trans people will date other trans people.

Well I wouldn't have thought it would be easy to. And I'm assuming it's not. I'd say it's expensive and takes years of treatment, honing down what works for you etc... Jesus like.

To be honest, we're told that the transgender issue is going to be the next 'big' issue in Irish politics after abortion and assisted suicide. People are going to have questions and they'll be tough ones. People also want to understand a bit more because straight people are expected to be informed these days, at least to some degree to lessen our 'ignorance'. Like I said, I'm grateful for the replies but the snappy "you're wrong - here's why" could be done without. Particularly when the average straight person would have the same amount of idea I would.

Penny Tration

Fukuyama wrote: »

I'm more surprised that every answer is always really cryptic like this one, tbh. Normally with some implied undertone that I'm not getting.

Like if it's a case that some men enjoy the female form but with a penis, then okay. But why is it never talked about?

Seriously, google the question and you'll see that it's basically an answer that nobody seems to know. Even working it out mathematically blows my mind. The combinations are endless. The calculus involved in quantifying the combinations in a transgender orgy would make Einstein's mind explode.

As a straight woman, born biologically matching my gender, I have little experience of the whole area of trans people dating.

However, personally, I would probably date a trans man. I mean, why not? He's a man in my eyes, simple as. If he hadn't had full surgery then I wouldn't have a sexual relationship because to be blunt, I find the female form beautiful, but not sexually attractive as I'm straight.

Another blunt part is that if I were to date a post-op trans man, a question I would have to ask would be - Is everything down there working as it should? I haven't a clue how long it takes to recover from surgery, and obviously there are risks involved. but I'm not willing to be in a relationship where sex is not a possibility.

My trans friend is in a relationship. She's with a lady who identifies as gay. My friend is pre-op, and her girlfriend does what I would do - no sexual contact with the 'male' anatomy. they'll make do with other stuff til my friend has had her surgery.

It's bound to be a little more complicated than your typical straight or gay relationship, but it's really only as complicated as you choose to make it.

Don't like penis? Don't have sex with your trans girlfriend before her surgery.

Don't like vag? Don't have sex with your pre-op boyfriend before his surgery.

Simple really!

Links234

Fukuyama wrote: »

To be honest, we're told that the transgender issue is going to be the next 'big' issue in Irish politics after abortion and assisted suicide.

The transgender 'issue' isn't one any more, we've got the gender recognition bill passed, people are already cracking out the bottles of champaggin' because they've recieved their new gender recognition certificates, it's all good. We're one of the best countries in the world when it comes to trans issues, and that's something to be proud of.

Also, I'm sorry if I'm coming across as snappy, I think you might be picking something up in my posts that I don't intend.

Edit: That's really not to say that there's no issues that transgender people face at all, just saying that our big one is all done and dusted now, Ireland rocks.

Fukuyama

Links234 wrote: »

The transgender 'issue' isn't one any more, we've got the gender recognition bill passed, people are already cracking out the bottles of champaggin' because they've recieved their new gender recognition certificates, it's all good. We're one of the best countries in the world when it comes to trans issues, and that's something to be proud of.

Also, I'm sorry if I'm coming across as snappy, I think you might be picking something up in my posts that I don't intend.

Was there not going to be a referendum to put it in the constitution? I mean the next government could overturn legislation. Maybe I heard wrong but I really though it was queued up to go to referendum.

I guess what I was saying is trans people still face the most discrimination out of LGBT. That's a recorded fact. To get over this, society as a whole which is comprised of mostly straight people, have some learning to do.

That's not going to happen when every question is answered with "sexuality doesn't matter" when to most people, including most in the LGBT community, it's a pretty fundamental pillar of their person.

So society just backs away with an "oooookkkay" and stays quiet on the issue because they don't want to be accused ob being ignorant or transphobic. And there's nothing like sweeping an issue under the rug in Ireland to hold back progress by a solid 50 years.

Just my two cents.