Gender fluid?

RWCNT · 12-09-2015 7:23pm

fartingforfun wrote: »

True to form the PC people are full of hate, anyone who disagrees with them is cursed from on high, how very un-PC.

Why shouldn't people with bigoted views speaking from a place of sheer ignorance be called out? I see people making this point a lot and its truly baffling to me. Should we also tolerate racism?

fartingforfun · 12-09-2015 7:26pm

RWCNT wrote: »

Why shouldn't people with bigoted views speaking from a place of sheer ignorance be called out? I see people making this point a lot and its truly baffling to me. Should we also tolerate racism?

Double standards is the foundation upon which the PC world view is built, disagree with the PC view and they become the purest form of bigot you will ever meet, hatred drips from every pore.

Lord Riverside · 12-09-2015 7:28pm

fartingforfun wrote: »

Double standards is the foundation upon which the PC world view is built, disagree with the PC view and they become the purest form of bigot you will ever meet, hatred drips from every pore.

It's probably 'gender fluid'

Fukuyama · 12-09-2015 7:31pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

So the internet should be censored in case someones feelings are hurt.

People often arrive on social media sites, particularly ones like boards where you can have a level of anonymity in varying states of emotional distress.

It's quite possible that people who are confused, depressed, homosexual, transgender or suicidal could read off the hand flippant comments. It just makes them feel worse and compounds the notion that they're not normal or viewed as society's unwanted, despite the fact that it's the opposite.

Posting flippant comments about politicians or trivial issues makes AH fun. But some comments can cut to the core of a person.

So maybe just cop on a bit and realize that, if standing in front of a massive audience of thousands of people, you wouldn't make those comments. So don't make them here.

fartingforfun · 12-09-2015 7:33pm

Fukuyama wrote: »

People often arrive on social media sites, particularly ones like boards where you can have a level of anonymity in varying states of emotional distress.

It's quite possible that people who are confused, depressed, homosexual, transgender or suicidal could read off the hand flippant comments. It just makes them feel worse and compounds the notion that they're not normal or viewed as society's unwanted, despite the fact that it's the opposite.

Posting flippant comments about politicians or trivial issues makes AH fun. But some comments can cut to the core of a person.

So maybe just cop on a bit and realize that, if standing in front of a massive audience of thousands of people, you wouldn't make those comments. So don't make them here.

Maybe that should stay at home lock the door and pull the curtains?
If posts here tip them over the edge, they won't last long in the real world.

RWCNT · 12-09-2015 7:33pm

fartingforfun wrote: »

Double standards is the foundation upon which the PC world view is built, disagree with the PC view and they become the purest form of bigot you will ever meet, hatred drips from every pore.

What would "disagreeing with a PC view" entail though? Being transphobic? Racist? Sexist? Homophobic?

strelok · 12-09-2015 7:43pm

RWCNT wrote: »

What would "disagreeing with a PC view" entail though? Being transphobic? Racist? Sexist? Homophobic?

that, or just having opinions they don't like and will call transphobic/racist/sexist/homophobic to get their friends to dogpile on you

in the case of certain people though, it's most likely the first four.

Fukuyama · 12-09-2015 7:45pm

fartingforfun wrote: »

Maybe that should stay at home lock the door and pull the curtains?
If posts here tip them over the edge, they won't last long in the real world.

The "real world" is, in my experience, often more accepting than social media where people can hide behind computer screens and sneer at people. Telling someone that their condition is made up, attention seeking or a generally unacceptable wouldn't fly in a "real world" setting. Not in 2015 anyways.

I've no idea what it's like to be transgender or gay. I'm glad I was born straight and never had to deal with any of it.

I've done some reading on the subject however. It exists. People can be born a man but feel like a woman. Must be torture.

Lyaiera · 12-09-2015 7:46pm

fartingforfun wrote: »

Maybe that should stay at home lock the door and pull the curtains?
If posts here tip them over the edge, they won't last long in the real world.

The real world, at least in Ireland (or maybe just Cork) is actually pretty nice. You go to the pub, and drink your pint, and chat to the people about what you've been up to for the day, or week. You go for breakfast and get three sausages because you didn't want beans and the waiter is lovely. You go to poetry night, and you chat away about writing and publishing and everyone is grand.

Then you get some gob****e who thinks he's making a stand for reality, or logic, or "real people" who starts causing hassle. They're usually a bit thick, and everyone is really embarrassed by them. People close up wishing they'd just go away to another bar. People come up to you a few weeks later and say, "I was worried he'd cause he scene, what a numpty."

This happens to people who are gay, female, trans, bisexual, of a different race, travellers, even someone who's just grown a moustache that's not the norm.

The reality is a lot of people, the vast majority couldn't care less about someone being gay, or trans, or gender fluid. They're far more concerned with having a good conversation with someone about the app they're designing, or the weekend's sport, or how FF/FG are continuing to rule the land.

The people who think this is some big deal, something to be tiptoed around, or something to rail against are the ones in need of help. There's far more important things to be worried about. Like if it'll rain while I'm going for my chips.

Cold War Kid · 12-09-2015 7:51pm

Fukuyama wrote: »

The "real world" is, in my experience, often more accepting than social media where people can hide behind computer screens and sneer at people. Telling someone that their condition is made up, attention seeking or a generally unacceptable wouldn't fly in a "real world" setting. Not in 2015 anyways.

I've no idea what it's like to be transgender or gay. I'm glad I was born straight and never had to deal with any of it.

I've done some reading on the subject however. It exists. People can be born a man but feel like a woman. Must be torture.

Yeah this is the way I feel. I can't relate, it seems strange to me - but a person would hardly go through all that treatment for anything other than a huge reason. I'm not qualified to make an assessment of it, only the person themselves is, and their doctors.

People say it's a mental illness rather than a physical one, but surely that would be taken into consideration also - I mean, they're bound to have psychiatric evaluations before such drastic physical treatment.

If people's views are that it's strange, something that they don't like the idea of, fair enough - but stuff like making diagnoses is just incorrect.

Links234 · 12-09-2015 7:52pm

Honestly, the 'real world' is far more accomodating than online a lot of times, I think it's more of a vocal minority effect, but it's been ages since I've had any real abuse in person. You have to go online to see the real bull****.

Sheep Lover · 12-09-2015 7:57pm

Ok genuine question, a man now wants to become a woman, how does this play out in real life? The use of public toilets, changing rooms etc must be an awkward point.

darced · 12-09-2015 8:00pm

This post has been deleted.

Links234 · 12-09-2015 8:00pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Ok genuine question, a man now wants to become a woman, how does this play out in real life? The use of public toilets, changing rooms etc must be an awkward point.

Do you want a serious answer?

Fukuyama · 12-09-2015 8:03pm

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Yeah this is the way I feel. I can't relate, it seems strange to me - but a person would hardly go through all that treatment for anything other than a huge reason. I'm not qualified to make an assessment of it, only the person themselves is, and their doctors.

People say it's a mental illness rather than a physical one, but surely that would be taken into consideration also - I mean, they're bound to have psychiatric evaluations before such drastic physical treatment.

If people's views are that it's strange, something that they don't like the idea of, fair enough - but stuff like making diagnoses is just incorrect.

Tell a man that he has to have his testicles and penis surgically removed to stop the spread of a flesh eating virus. Watch as his world implodes, depression sets in permanently and he deems his life to be 'over'. He'd rather lose both legs. I know I would anyways.

Tell a woman she can have her penis surgically removed and see her finally live her actual life.

Read something similar to that online and it was the only thing that ever made me understand the decision. No man would ever even entertain the idea. Reverse would go for women to male trans. Not saying all trans need to have the operation either but you get my point.

I've read academic journals and watched documentaries on the subject. All very informative and at times really made me question what I know about "people".

I would have a billion questions to ask a trans person though. I actually have very little interaction with LGBT community. Know a few gay people but not really close friends with any of them. Don't think I've ever even known a trans person either.

Sheep Lover · 12-09-2015 8:04pm

Links234 wrote: »

Do you want a serious answer?

Please?

strelok · 12-09-2015 8:06pm

Fukuyama wrote: »

Tell a man that he has to have his testicles and penis surgically removed to stop the spread of a flesh eating virus. Watch as his world implodes, depression sets in permanently and he deems his life to be 'over'. He'd rather lose both legs. I know I would anyways.

Tell a woman she can have her penis surgically removed and see her finally live her actual life.

Read something similar to that online and it was the only thing that ever made me understand the decision. No man would ever even entertain the idea. Reverse would go for women to male trans. Not saying all trans need to have the operation either but you get my point.

I've read academic journals and watched documentaries on the subject. All very informative and at times really made me question what I know about "people".

I would have a billion questions to ask a trans person though. I actually have very little interaction with LGBT community. Know a few gay people but not really close friends with any of them. Don't think I've ever even known a trans person either.

none of this applies here though as he is "genderfluid" and not transgender...

there's actual medical science behind someone being transgender. being genderfluid is just... is there even a reasonable definition of it?

hatrickpatrick · 12-09-2015 8:06pm

Is it possible for someone to find the constant divergence, splitting, and invention of new labels to classify trans people as utterly ridiculous and annoying, without being labelled a transphobe?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing whatsover against trans folk, but the joke I've seen doing around is that the term "LGBT" is eventually going to be so long as to have used up every letter in the alphabet because people involved in the cultural aspect of it keep trying to refine various labels to the point at which they become quite exclusionary. LGBT is now LGBTQF - dafuq is the difference between trans, queer and fluid? Is it really necessary to make that whole aspect of sexuality so incredibly convoluted and complicated?

12-09-2015 8:08pm

i try to keep an open mind on gender/sexuality, know a few people that are out as trans and in the process of fully transitioning and its a mindblowing commitment that, whilst i dont understand it and would never claim to, have to give full respect to those people for.

but if you feel different genders on different days so strongly that you need to make your employers and the general public aware of it them you are paying too much attention to your gender imo.

Fukuyama · 12-09-2015 8:12pm

strelok wrote: »

none of this applies here though as he is "genderfluid" and not transgender...

there's actual medical science behind someone being transgender. being genderfluid is just... is there even a reasonable definition of it?

Genderfluid is a new one to me. Never heard of it before this thread.

According to wikipedia it's identifying as both genders, and moving along a scale back and forth depending on lots of variables. I guess you have to remember that gender isn't sex (male/female, penis/vagina etc...). It's more a societal term. Men are X, women are Y.

He has testosterone and lived his life as a man through his childhood, teens, etc.. He can obviously identify somewhat as a man. But maybe there's part of him that feels he is a woman.

Or maybe it's like different situations. Maybe he's still attracted to women and wants to be a man in that regard. But maybe he also feels feminine in other aspects of his life or certain situations.

Again, I cannot get that into my head at all. To me, it doesn't compute. But non-binary genders have scientific backing and I'm not going to stand in the way of someone being happy just because I don't understand their plight.

Annasopra · 12-09-2015 8:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

i try to keep an open mind on gender/sexuality, know a few people that are out as trans and in the process of fully transitioning and its a mindblowing commitment that, whilst i dont understand it and would never claim to, have to give full respect to those people for.

but if you feel different genders on different days so strongly that you need to make your employers and the general public aware of it them you are paying too much attention to your gender imo.

Lol. You tell us how you try to keep an open mind and then how you're closed minded.

Galwayguy35 · 12-09-2015 8:15pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Ok genuine question, a man now wants to become a woman, how does this play out in real life? The use of public toilets, changing rooms etc must be an awkward point.

Sure he hardly thinks he can use the women's toilets just because of something he feels, doubtful it's going to be that big of a deal going to the men's for the sake of the few minutes it takes to take a wizz.

hatrickpatrick · 12-09-2015 8:15pm

If I could use an analogy to summarise my above post, I personally feel like the ever-widening divulgence of different gender levels is like watching a bunch of country musicians trying to define their own particular style to such a level as to have that genre all to themselves in the end. If this is the case, then eventually we'll end up with people like the author of this article saying "I'm John-Rachel-Clynch-gendered". I just don't see the point. I hesitate to say this for fear of being accused of some kind of phobia, but some of these ever widening label people strike me as just wanting to feel unique and not wanting to share a label with anyone else.

strelok · 12-09-2015 8:16pm

Fukuyama wrote: »

Genderfluid is a new one to me. Never heard of it before this thread.

According to wikipedia it's identifying as both genders, and moving along a scale back and forth depending on lots of variables. I guess you have to remember that gender isn't sex (male/female, penis/vagina etc...). It's more a societal term. Men are X, women are Y.

He has testosterone and lived his life as a man through his childhood, teens, etc.. He can obviously identify somewhat as a man. But maybe there's part of him that feels he is a woman.

Or maybe it's like different situations. Maybe he's still attracted to women and wants to be a man in that regard. But maybe he also feels feminine in other aspects of his life or certain situations.

Again, I cannot get that into my head at all. To me, it doesn't compute. But non-binary genders have scientific backing and I'm not going to stand in the way of someone being happy just because I don't understand their plight.

non binary genders (sex's?) have scientific backing in so far as transgender people exist. wanting to be a woman on tuesday and a man on thursday is completely ridiculous. genderfluid is not a real thing, any more than otherkin or transracial.

like.... people are transgender because they have female brains in male bodies (massive oversimplication, obviously) and vice versa.. and then you have these muppets who just tra-la-la along between being a woman and a man depending on their mood? it's a joke

if you're a man and you want to wear a dress and throw some make up on, just wear a dress and throw some ****ing make up on.

Links234 · 12-09-2015 8:16pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Please?

Bathrooms and locker rooms are a source of extreme anxiety for a lot of trans people. I once got a kidney infection because I held it in so long because I was out for a pint and I was too afraid to use the toilets in the pub, I held it until I went home. These days I don't have an issue, nobody seem to take any notice of me, but yes when I first started transition, things were painfully awkward. Changing rooms are a whole other story, I wouldn't go to any swimming pool or gym or anything like that.

12-09-2015 8:18pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Lol. You tell us how you try to keep an open mind and then how you're closed minded.

will do chief, will do

anyways, "I try" ain't a promise. gender fluid, sin é an rud nua and I'll get used to it maybe, lyfe huh.

fartingforfun · 12-09-2015 8:21pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

The reality is a lot of people, the vast majority couldn't care less about someone being gay, or trans, or gender fluid. They're far more concerned with having a good conversation with someone about the app they're designing, or the weekend's sport, or how FF/FG are continuing to rule the land.

The people who think this is some big deal, something to be tiptoed around, or something to rail against are the ones in need of help.

This here is at the heart of the matter, straight people don't care if you are gay, trans or what ever, you will never hear straight people define themselves as "straight" they just get on with life.
Now what the gay, trans whatever community can't get the head around is their sex life/ lifestyle is of no interest to straight people.
When straight people voice this the PC brigade come out of the wood work to paint them as evil bigots.
Live your life and stop trying to force it upon those who have no interest in it.

Fukuyama · 12-09-2015 8:22pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Is it possible for someone to find the constant divergence, splitting, and invention of new labels to classify trans people as utterly ridiculous and annoying, without being labelled a transphobe?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing whatsover against trans folk, but the joke I've seen doing around is that the term "LGBT" is eventually going to be so long as to have used up every letter in the alphabet because people involved in the cultural aspect of it keep trying to refine various labels to the point at which they become quite exclusionary. LGBT is now LGBTQF - dafuq is the difference between trans, queer and fluid? Is it really necessary to make that whole aspect of sexuality so incredibly convoluted and complicated?

Hmm.

What I wouldn't like is being called a homophobe or some other form of phobe for not keeping up with it. I will agree that at time you can blink and suddenly you're some dark age oppressor.

I've also heard that the LGBT community isn't all that accepting. Bi-sexuals get a hard old time among lesbians in particular.

There are also way too many people taking women studies / gender studies degrees in the US. They emerge at the age of 21 thinking they're an authority who can define people. I've seen LGBT with loads of letters. Half I couldn't even guess. And until a few months ago I thought "queer" was a derogatory term.

I think what we need is a new "movement" which also includes straight people - arguably the biggest mobilized force in support of the LGBT community as seen in the recent referendum. This movement would basically be for anyone who accepts people for whatever gender, sexuality or lack-there-of that they are and realize it doesn't impact on your life in any big way.

I think the actual gender profiling should be left to scientists with Tumblr BAs excluded from the process.

Lyaiera · 12-09-2015 8:26pm

fartingforfun wrote: »

This here is at the heart of the matter, straight people don't care if you are gay, trans or what ever, you will never hear straight people define themselves as "straight" they just get on with life.
Now what the gay, trans whatever community can't get the head around is their sex life/ lifestyle is of no interest to straight people.
When straight people voice this the PC brigade come out of the wood work to paint them as evil bigots.
Live your life and stop trying to force it upon those who have no interest in it.

I am living my life. Then someone starts a thread in After Hours about trans people needing mental health treatment. And pointing out how little they care while giving out.

I've had people ask me all manner of things, things that are none of their business. I just want to drink my pint, leave me alone.

fartingforfun · 12-09-2015 8:27pm

strelok wrote: »

genderfluid is not a real thing, any more than otherkin or transracial.

How dare you!
Rachel Dolezal is a hero to millions of black women trapped inside the body of a white woman.

Gender fluid?

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