County Standing By Population

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Biloxi Blues

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

" If it's even accurate " - Exhibit 1

Was referring to Dubs commenters and snipers , not Dublin GAA itself, who are understandably more than happy with the advantages conferred by financial doping and who will try all manner of deflection and obfuscation and attacking the sources of information rather than the information itself.

Nonevernomore

Obviously Dublin GAA and Dub supporters don't care how they win. It's a sad reflection on them as most counties would prefer to win things through fair means and not buying success. Knowing this however means that the rest of the counties must stand together and put a stop to it!
It won't end until we end it. Obviously the games development money has to be taken from Dublin and spread around the country but that's just start. Dublin have been receiving this money since 2005! That's over a decade of one county receiving an unfair advantage. Can the results of this be reversed?
The financial windfall Dublin GAA were granted by Bertie has led to huge underage success which was followed by 4 out of the last 6 All Ireland's. With this came sponsorship. Huge levels of sponsorship. 4 million from AIG, a lengthy support list which includes many big names. Other counties have to beg people to sponsor them!
I probably won't get much agreement with this but I think the only solution now is to split Dublin! What other action can we take to make things fair? To make it that teams are competing on a level playing field? It's sad that it's come to this but it's the action that's required.

tritium

Nonevernomore wrote: »

Obviously Dublin GAA and Dub supporters don't care how they win. It's a sad reflection on them as most counties would prefer to win things through fair means and not buying success. Knowing this however means that the rest of the counties must stand together and put a stop to it!
It won't end until we end it. Obviously the games development money has to be taken from Dublin and spread around the country but that's just start. Dublin have been receiving this money since 2005! That's over a decade of one county receiving an unfair advantage. Can the results of this be reversed?
The financial windfall Dublin GAA were granted by Bertie has led to huge underage success which was followed by 4 out of the last 6 All Ireland's. With this came sponsorship. Huge levels of sponsorship. 4 million from AIG, a lengthy support list which includes many big names. Other counties have to beg people to sponsor them!
I probably won't get much agreement with this but I think the only solution now is to split Dublin! What other action can we take to make things fair? To make it that teams are competing on a level playing field? It's sad that it's come to this but it's the action that's required.

I was wondering how long it would take before the 'split dublin' horse**** raised its head.

Strange you dont want to split Kerry and Kilkenny.....

Rather than just providing a graphic withoit context could someone link to the actual data and preferably also to details of monies/ facilities accessed though other GAA sources, for example the cost per county of provincially provided coaches and administrators that Paraic Duffy has previously highlighted

Biloxi Blues

The usual response to the proposal of splitting is 'why don't you split Kilkenny and Kerry so' ignoring the fact that the success of these counties is essentially organic and done without the playing populations of Dublin and the massive taxpayer and GAA monies diverted to Dublin. It was originally proposed back in 2001, long before this current period of dominance by the Dublin footballers and Dublin hurlers buying their way to the top table of hurling. It was Bertie Ahern alright who started the whole farrago with the diversion of taxpayer money to his beloved Dublin (he'd probably have given some of our tax euros to Man United as well if he had the chance)

Nonevernomore

Can you link to the data which shows Kerry and Kilkenny receiving millions upon millions of euro from the taxpayers and the GAA?

Biloxi Blues

tritium wrote: »

I was wondering how long it would take before the 'split dublin' horse**** raised its head.

Strange you dont want to split Kerry and Kilkenny.....

Rather than just providing a graphic withoit context could someone link to the actual data and preferably also to details of monies/ facilities accessed though other GAA sources, for example the cost per county of provincially provided coaches and administrators that Paraic Duffy has previously highlighted

So you dispute the data? Are you saying it's fabricated? What 'alternative' figures do you have?

Strange alright that , unlike Dublin, Kerry and Kilkenny acheived their success without massive taxpayer and GAA financial doping and rellativeley small playing populations alright. But they are to be commended for that rather than Dublin using it as a shield for themselves.

tritium

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

So you dispute the data? Are you saying it's fabricated? What 'alternative' figures do you have?

Strange alright that , unlike Dublin, Kerry and Kilkenny acheived their success without massive taxpayer and GAA financial doping and rellativeley small playing populations alright. But they are to be commended for that rather than Dublin using it as a shield for themselves.

If you want to argue based on that data then its up to you to be able to defend it and open it to scrutiny


Btw, when you say for example Kerrys success was without financial doping, is that including million euro sponsorship deals and the like?

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-sponsorship-deals-highlight-richman-poorman-divide-29649138.html

Its nice to pull the 'organic" and 'pure skill' argument as though folk in certain counties are birn with footballs or hurleys in their hand but unfortunately it doesnt actually stack up

Biloxi Blues

tritium wrote: »

If you want to argue based on that data then its up to you to be able to defend it and open it to scrutiny


Btw, when you say for example Kerrys success was without financial doping, is that including million euro sponsorship deals and the like?

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-sponsorship-deals-highlight-richman-poorman-divide-29649138.html

Its nice to pull the 'organic" and 'pure skill' argument as though folk in certain counties are birn with footballs or hurleys in their hand but unfortunately it doesnt actually stack up

Nobody even mentioned sponsorship yet, we are talking about taxpayer and GAA funded financial doping of Dublin. And even Kerry's sponsorship deal is dwarfed by the sponsorship deals done by Dublin.

The analysis has already been done. It is all in the public domain and is taken from the GAA's own financial statements. Check out the "Payments to Clubs , Counties and Provinces" section of the 2015 audited financial statements of the GAA and quit your pathetic deflection.

And only you mentioned "pure skill" and "born with footballs and hurleys in their hands", not me. The mention of the word "organic" is that neither Kerry or Kilkenny is being financially doped the way Dublin are but the Dubs always insist in dragging Kerry and Kilkenny into it though they know themselves KK and KY are not being financially doped like they are.

Dots1982

If you aren't happy with the funding arrangements then there is one way and one only to protest: DON'T GO TO GAMES. The GAA will be pretty quick to catch on once they see empty seats.

The Lost Sheep

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

The usual response to the proposal of splitting is 'why don't you split Kilkenny and Kerry so' ignoring the fact that the success of these counties is essentially organic and done without the playing populations of Dublin and the massive taxpayer and GAA monies diverted to Dublin. It was originally proposed back in 2001, long before this current period of dominance by the Dublin footballers and Dublin hurlers buying their way to the top table of hurling. It was Bertie Ahern alright who started the whole farrago with the diversion of taxpayer money to his beloved Dublin (he'd probably have given some of our tax euros to Man United as well if he had the chance)

So Dublin being a county with a big population that is organic and now they're simply getting very good use of that population when for years they weren't and Dublin gets lots of money diverted to it because of the population

Biloxi Blues

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you aren't happy with the funding arrangements then there is one way and one only to protest: DON'T GO TO GAMES. The GAA will be pretty quick to catch on once they see empty seats.

In a way, it's happening already. Even with double headers and with Dublin on the card, the once great Leinster football championship is dead and buried and the attendances reflect that. And the millions injected into Dublin hurling (whilst allowed die in places like Offaly and Antrim) hasn't got too many Dubs off their arses to attend Dublin hurling matches.

Biloxi Blues

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

So Dublin being a county with a big population that is organic and now they're simply getting very good use of that population when for years they weren't and Dublin gets lots of money diverted to it because of the population

I don't know what you are trying to say here.

Kalyke

My post from the Mayo page

"In case you can't make that out, the investment per player in Dublin is €274.70. The next nearest is €68.17, in Fermanagh. Third is Longford, at €62.30.

Beaten All-Ireland finalists Mayo have received €22.30. Kerry got €19 per player, while Donegal - the team Dublin beat in the quarter-final - pulled in €20.10 per player"
Article by Gavin Cooney. Figures given are per registered player in a given county. Anyone else want to argue its a level playing field?

Godge

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

It's all based on freely available information and analysed by Shane Mangan who is researching an MSc in Data Analytics in Sport. So will the Dubs chose to attack the information or the researcher, the message or the messenger? Or just hope it goes quiet again, like it did before?

I asked for the detailed information, not just the map. The information used and the assumptions underlying that information are of critical importance.

Without knowing that, the map is meaningless.

For example, he could just be dividing Central Council grant by the size of the inter-county senior panels, or the number of registered senior players. Either of those calculations would be completely misleading.

tritium

Godge wrote: »

I asked for the detailed information, not just the map. The information used and the assumptions underlying that information are of critical importance.

Without knowing that, the map is meaningless.

For example, he could just be dividing Central Council grant by the size of the inter-county senior panels, or the number of registered senior players. Either of those calculations would be completely misleading.

This! Strange how some folks pushing the 'Dublin bought their all irelands' agenda are so slow to actually provide the detailed evidence for scrutiny

Biloxi Blues

Godge wrote: »

I asked for the detailed information, not just the map. The information used and the assumptions underlying that information are of critical importance.

Without knowing that, the map is meaningless.

For example, he could just be dividing Central Council grant by the size of the inter-county senior panels, or the number of registered senior players. Either of those calculations would be completely misleading.

And elsewhere, you are representing that all this money is going to underprivileged children in Dublin. Where's your link for that? It's simple - games development grants per county are divided by the number of registered players per county. All taken from the GAA's audited financial statements which you seem to want delivered to your door by a remedial teacher specialising in basic mathematics for slow learners.

Blud

Yeah I'd be disputing these figures too. Have a read of Gavin Cooneys article on balls.ie - it mentions a figure of over €1.4m being given to the Dubs, then mentions over 39,000 registered players in Dublin, then calculates that as €274.70 per registered player.

Now I'm not a mathematician, but for 39,000 players to get €274.70 per player, then I'd be calculating they'd need about €10.7m in grants, but the data provided doesn't support this sort of figure anywhere.

Would appreciate an explanation if I'm missing something.

Godge

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

And elsewhere, you are representing that all this money is going to underprivileged children in Dublin. Where's your link for that? It's simple - games development grants per county are divided by the number of registered players per county. All taken from the GAA's audited financial statements which you seem to want delivered to your door by a remedial teacher specialising in basic mathematics for slow learners.

I thought it was something that simple. Generally when something is that simple in a complicated multi-faceted scenario, it is also simplistic and therefore misleading and plain damn wrong.

The money goes to Games Development Officers who work with juvenile mentors in clubs and schools. Simple as. Nothing to do with the senior team over the last few years, probably a lot to do with the senior team in the mid-2020s and I will be happy to discuss the merits of the way the money was spent at that time.

Until then, I am going back to enjoying the All-Ireland win. Unlike those who cry and whinge over the money going to Dublin Juvenile GAA, I appreciate that had Cillian O'Connor the bottle of a Stephen Cluxton or a Maurice Fitzgerald to nail a last-minute free, we might not be here discussing this subject.

tritium

Blud wrote: »

Yeah I'd be disputing these figures too. Have a read of Gavin Cooneys article on balls.ie - it mentions a figure of over €1.4m being given to the Dubs, then mentions over 39,000 registered players in Dublin, then calculates that as €274.70 per registered player.

Now I'm not a mathematician, but for 39,000 players to get €274.70 per player, then I'd be calculating they'd need about €10.7m in grants, but the data provided doesn't support this sort of figure anywhere.

Would appreciate an explanation if I'm missing something.

Yep doesn't appear to add up alright. Im sure one if the posters ive asked ro provide detail for these figure will be along to explain shortly.

There are also additional issues with using that 1.4 million figure that have been mentioned previously

Blud

tritium wrote: »

Yep doesn't appear to add up alright. Im sure one if the posters ive asked ro provide detail for these figure will be along to explain shortly.

There are also additional issues with using that 1.4 million figure that have been mentioned previously

I'll reply to you on the last part - ignoring the post above yours as the petty dig at the end of it about a missed free renders the post easily ignorable in my view, and doesn't say much about the poster.

I don't agree that playing population is a poor measure in discussing, in relative terms, how much money is put into each county. I think that it's possibly the only measure that makes sense, and don't fully understand how that can be disputed.

How else would you propose they decide how much money should go where?

When the GAA sit down to decide how to dole out money from the Games Development Fund, I think the only thing they can measure it by is participation. According to the article I mentioned previously, Dublin have, for example, almost three times the playing population of Kerry so should get almost three times the amount that Kerry get. Sounds simple, but I don't see an issue with the simplicity in this case.

tritium

Im not disagreeing with you Blud, the issues im fefering to are around what different counties fund from the money relative to whats provided at a provincial for some and not for others

To be honest id share Jim Gavins view that its up to other counties to make a business case for funding rather than just wanting to beggar their neighbour. All the money in the world makes no odds if its just pissed down the drain. The Dubs just bought it view isnt particularly new and its tended ro be driven by begrudgery.

PARlance

Blud wrote: »

Yeah I'd be disputing these figures too. Have a read of Gavin Cooneys article on balls.ie - it mentions a figure of over €1.4m being given to the Dubs, then mentions over 39,000 registered players in Dublin, then calculates that as €274.70 per registered player.

Now I'm not a mathematician, but for 39,000 players to get €274.70 per player, then I'd be calculating they'd need about €10.7m in grants, but the data provided doesn't support this sort of figure anywhere.

Would appreciate an explanation if I'm missing something.

The figures don't make sense at all. You think the journalists would actually check them out.

I've linked another one of his tweets. Dublin received 4 times as much from the GAA as Mayo. They have roughly 4 times as many registered players.

https://twitter.com/Shane_Mangan/status/783967867066777600

Blud

tritium wrote: »

Im not disagreeing with you Blud, the issues im fefering to are around what different counties fund from the money relative to whats provided at a provincial for some and not for others

To be honest id share Jim Gavins view that its up to other counties to make a business case for funding rather than just wanting to beggar their neighbour. All the money in the world makes no odds if its just pissed down the drain. The Dubs just bought it view isnt particularly new and its tended ro be driven by begrudgery.

While PARlance's post below yours makes this a little irrelevant, I don't think Jim Gavin's point is relevant in relation to the Games Development Fund. If one county is given preferential treatment for funds from the GDF (which is what is alleged here, though not necessarily proven), then that impacts everyone else.

I think Jim was responding to someone who had said that Dublin should divide their sponsorship income out, which is a whole new debate and nothing to do with preferential treatment from the GAA.

Blud

PARlance wrote: »

The figures don't make sense at all. You think the journalists would actually check them out.

I've linked another one of his tweets. Dublin received 4 times as much from the GAA as Mayo. They have roughly 4 times as many registered players.

https://twitter.com/Shane_Mangan/status/783967867066777600

Interesting.

I suppose the GAA does leave themselves open to an argument here, in that if we use Dublin as a yardstick and then take Mayo as an example, then the Dub's 11.77m of funding for 39,197 players should give Mayo funding of 3.19m for our 10,635 players.

That alone would be a 21% increase in the current funding for Mayo, which would be a chunky enough difference.

TrueGael

Dublin by right should be able to fund their own GDF such is their unique capacity to attract enormous sponsorship.

Now maybe they would haven't have as huge backroom and have to cut some of their professional staff(Commercial Mgr, PR mgr etc) but it would benefit the whole country rather than just 1 team

tritium

Blud wrote: »

While PARlance's post below yours makes this a little irrelevant, I don't think Jim Gavin's point is relevant in relation to the Games Development Fund. If one county is given preferential treatment for funds from the GDF (which is what is alleged here, though not necessarily proven), then that impacts everyone else.

I think Jim was responding to someone who had said that Dublin should divide their sponsorship income out, which is a whole new debate and nothing to do with preferential treatment from the GAA.

Feombthe article i read it in i took Gavins comments to be about funding rather than sponsorship

[url] http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-gavin-defends-the-investment-in-dublin-gaa-1.2526138[/url]

In terms of development funds im not convinces by the per registered player metric tbh. Depending on exactly how the funds are spent and what the goal is that metric could be very misleading.

Sponsorship brings up a whole other arguement where people largely ignore what exactly is being spo sored and over what duration.

The numbers being given in this thread definitely dont appear to stack up though

BonnieSituation

TrueGael wrote: »

Dublin by right should be able to fund their own GDF such is their unique capacity to attract enormous sponsorship.

Now maybe they would haven't have as huge backroom and have to cut some of their professional staff(Commercial Mgr, PR mgr etc) but it would benefit the whole country rather than just 1 team

But surely a full-timne commercial manager is a good thing to attract further outside funding? No?

Do people just want us to be crap again? Is that what it really boils down to.

From 1983 to 1995 and from 1996 to 2011 no one cared what we got up to.

PARlance

Blud wrote: »

Interesting.

I suppose the GAA does leave themselves open to an argument here, in that if we use Dublin as a yardstick and then take Mayo as an example, then the Dub's 11.77m of funding for 39,197 players should give Mayo funding of 3.19m for our 10,635 players.

That alone would be a 21% increase in the current funding for Mayo, which would be a chunky enough difference.

21% isn't to be sniffed at but costs are much higher in Dublin and maybe that could / should be factored in.

Bonniedog

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

The GAA would want to ask for the millions given to Dublin hurling back if they are basing it on hoped-for-bandwagons. It's still three men and a dog who turns up to see the Dublin hurlers.

Dublin hurlers get one of highest home attendances of any county when playing in Parnell Park.


But, lets not the facts get in the way of your peasant bitterness