County Standing By Population

Jayop

feargale wrote: »

Would this thread not be more instructive if it looked at the standings over a long period of time? Counties have highs and lows

I forgot about this. I'll redo it using Laoisemans table at some stage.

jmayo

Mahogany wrote: »

Think most of it is to do with the fact the ground is all the way down in Aughrim. Therefore poor attendances/revenue.

Most people in the Northern half of the county are Dubs aswell. It's easier to get to Croker then to Aughrim for half the county.

loyatemu wrote: »

how much difference does "support" or the location of the county ground make in GAA though? Surely number of active players is more significant.

The clubs in Bray and Greystones are fairly active, but I suspect similar sized towns in other counties would have more than one club - Bray only has Emmets, how many clubs in Tralee? Do many players in the north of the county play for Dublin clubs?

Wicklow is unusual county and sometimes those mountains look like time and social barriers.
North and coastal Wicklow are different to the West of county which is way more rural.
A fair few people in Bray, Greystones, Enniskerry down as far as Wicklow town consider themselves Dublin rather than be seen as culchies, mountain men or boggers.

Wicklow's fascination with Dublin isn't just effecting the GAA.
A few of the underage soccer clubs now compete in Dublin leagues and not Wicklow leagues.

Saying that the likes of Bray Emmets are damn rich and have done a lot in particular to spread hurling.

Also Wicklow, like Carlow and for instance parts of Donegal and some other border counties would have had a large enough protestant population who historically would not have been the biggest GAA followers.

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Meath need to start getting these son of Dubliners playing ball for them.

In the current Dublin squad the two Brogans, Cian O'Sullivan and Mark Fenton have at least one Kerry parent and in some cases two - the Brogans only have one obviously, Cian O'Sullivan has 2, not sure on Mark Fenton's mother but his dad is a Kerryman. And that's only the ones I've heard about - I wouldn't be too shocked to if there was a few more around the squad with Kerry connections who are keeping it quiet.

Ehh the Brogans grand parents were both from Mayo and their second cousin was Padraig Brogan who played for Mayo.

Ps thanks to Kerry for the O'Sheas

Dyr

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Wicklow is mainly hills.
Clubs on west and east side of hills, separated by a very long drive.
GAA would not be the main sport in Bray, Arklow and Greystones.

I thought wikklas biggest problem was they're more interested in knocking the bollix out of each other in club rivalries than bothering their hole for the county team

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

CrabRevolution

I've never really bought the "lads love their clubs too much" argument. It'd at least carry a bit more weight if their clubs ever won anything outside of the county. I remember a Wicklow club winning it around 2000, but apart from that Wicklow clubs don't make much impact in Leinster, so where is this effort going?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Baltinglass won an All-Ireland in 1989.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

downthemiddle

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Baltinglass won an All-Ireland in 1989.

1990 actually.

Flukey

Here is another fascinating list of statistics.

The amount of players each county can have on the pitch at a time:

1 Dublin: 15
2 Antrim: 15
3 Down: 15
4 Cork: 15
5 Galway: 15
6 Derry: 15
7 Kildare: 15
8 Limerick: 15
9 Meath: 15
10 Tyrone: 15
11 Armagh: 15
12 Donegal: 15
13 Tipperary: 15
14 Kerry: 15
15 Wexford: 15
16 Wicklow: 15
17 Mayo: 15
18 Louth: 15
19 Clare: 15
20 Waterford: 15
21 Kilkenny: 15
22 Westmeath: 15
23 Laois: 15
24 Offaly: 15
25 Cavan: 15
26 Sligo: 15
27 Roscommon: 15
28 Fermanagh: 15
29 Monaghan: 15
30 Carlow: 15
31 Longford: 15
32 Leitrim: 15


Whatever the population of a county, they can all find enough good players to put together a good squad. As even the original set of statistics show, it doesn't go by population in terms of success. Also quality isn't determined by size of population. Even a very small county could have that extra specially talented player, and it often happens. There have been some brilliant players from small counties. Bigger counties may have more of them, but there is still enough talent in any county to be competitive. It is the effort put in by the players, the backroom staff, the county board etc. that makes a team. Get that all right, and you can have a great team, as we have so often seen, no matter what their population is. Imagine if Tipperary had all those players that left for the summer this year. Forgetting that, look at what they did without them, when they put the effort in. Any county can do that - no exceptions.

Many counties need to do things to up their standard. A lot of them are performing well below what they are or should be capable of. Population doesn't matter as much as people like to portray it, and the statistics in the thread prove that, as it does in many other sports. If it did matter, China would have beaten India yet again in the Rugby World Cup Final last year, following up on their corresponding victory over the same opposition in Brazil in 2014.

In relation to Kilkenny. Kilkenny do have a team. What is more surprising to people is that in terms of senior provincial football titles won, they are far from bottom of the roll of honour. There are 9 counties below them, yes nine, in case you think that was a typo. True, it is a long time since their last Leinster senior football title, but counties that do currently have less success than Kilkenny do compete in their senior football provincial championships. On that basis, so should Kilkenny. Kilkenny have 3, the last is back in 1911. Clare and Leitrim have 2. Limerick, Longford, Westmeath, Waterford and Carlow have 1. Wicklow and Fermanagh have none. So, the beaten finalist in the last two Leinster Senior Football Finals, has less Leinster titles than Kilkenny. Two counties have none and Kilkenny's last Leinster title is more recent than the last time Waterford (1898) and Limerick(1896) won Munster. Despite all of that, Kilkenny don't field a team. They should do and if not, their county board should be fired and they should get one in that will promote Gaelic Games in their county. The gas thing is, that given their Hurling success, they have a great template to follow that could be applied to their footballers, an advantage that lots of those other counties don't have.

In relation to my first set of statistics, even Kilkenny can find 15 lads of a high enough standard to put out a competitive team, and more than that to have a good squad. People there just need to get their finger out and stop giving the finger to football. If the Kilkenny county board had their wits about them, they'd have picked up the phone to Mick O'Dwyer or some other high profile manager over the years when the opportunity presented itself. Imagine it, Brian Cody and Mick O'Dwyer working in Kilkenny GAA. All their excuses about football would quickly disappear if Micko went to Kilkenny. The Kilkenny football talent, and there is plenty of it, would be beating a path to Nowlan Park in numbers, if Micko was waiting there for them. The fans would come out in numbers too. One phone call, that is all it would take, but the county board just use their finger for something else. Fire the lot of them!

Topcat32

Flukey wrote: »

Here is another fascinating list of statistics.

The amount of players each county can have on the pitch at a time:

1 Dublin: 15
2 Antrim: 15
3 Down: 15
4 Cork: 15
5 Galway: 15
6 Derry: 15
7 Kildare: 15
8 Limerick: 15
9 Meath: 15
10 Tyrone: 15
11 Armagh: 15
12 Donegal: 15
13 Tipperary: 15
14 Kerry: 15
15 Wexford: 15
16 Wicklow: 15
17 Mayo: 15
18 Louth: 15
19 Clare: 15
20 Waterford: 15
21 Kilkenny: 15
22 Westmeath: 15
23 Laois: 15
24 Offaly: 15
25 Cavan: 15
26 Sligo: 15
27 Roscommon: 15
28 Fermanagh: 15
29 Monaghan: 15
30 Carlow: 15
31 Longford: 15
32 Leitrim: 15


Whatever the population of a county, they can all find enough good players to put together a good squad. As even the original set of statistics show, it doesn't go by population in terms of success. Also quality isn't determined by size of population. Even a very small county could have that extra specially talented player, and it often happens. There have been some brilliant players from small counties. Bigger counties may have more of them, but there is still enough talent in any county to be competitive. It is the effort put in by the players, the backroom staff, the county board etc. that makes a team. Get that all right, and you can have a great team, as we have so often seen, no matter what their population is. Imagine if Tipperary had all those players that left for the summer this year. Forgetting that, look at what they did without them, when they put the effort in. Any county can do that - no exceptions.

Many counties need to do things to up their standard. A lot of them are performing well below what they are or should be capable of. Population doesn't matter as much as people like to portray it, and the statistics in the thread prove that, as it does in many other sports. If it did matter, China would have beaten India yet again in the Rugby World Cup Final last year, following up on their corresponding victory over the same opposition in Brazil in 2014.

In relation to Kilkenny. Kilkenny do have a team. What is more surprising to people is that in terms of senior provincial football titles won, they are far from bottom of the roll of honour. There are 9 counties below them, yes nine, in case you think that was a typo. True, it is a long time since their last Leinster senior football title, but counties that do currently have less success than Kilkenny do compete in their senior football provincial championships. On that basis, so should Kilkenny. Kilkenny have 3, the last is back in 1911. Clare and Leitrim have 2. Limerick, Longford, Westmeath, Waterford and Carlow have 1. Wicklow and Fermanagh have none. So, the beaten finalist in the last two Leinster Senior Football Finals, has less Leinster titles than Kilkenny. Two counties have none and Kilkenny's last Leinster title is more recent than the last time Waterford (1898) and Limerick(1896) won Munster. Despite all of that, Kilkenny don't field a team. They should do and if not, their county board should be fired and they should get one in that will promote Gaelic Games in their county. The gas thing is, that given their Hurling success, they have a great template to follow that could be applied to their footballers, an advantage that lots of those other counties don't have.

In relation to my first set of statistics, even Kilkenny can find 15 lads of a high enough standard to put out a competitive team, and more than that to have a good squad. People there just need to get their finger out and stop giving the finger to football. If the Kilkenny county board had their wits about them, they'd have picked up the phone to Mick O'Dwyer or some other high profile manager over the years when the opportunity presented itself. Imagine it, Brian Cody and Mick O'Dwyer working in Kilkenny GAA. All their excuses about football would quickly disappear if Micko went to Kilkenny. The Kilkenny football talent, and there is plenty of it, would be beating a path to Nowlan Park in numbers, if Micko was waiting there for them. The fans would come out in numbers too. One phone call, that is all it would take, but the county board just use their finger for something else. Fire the lot of them!

How many county boards will have to resign for not being able to put a team into the Liam McCarthy championship. I know it can be said that at least these teams play in the league and secondary hurling championship but the standard in the Lory Meagher and Nicky Rackard is not as good as intermediate club hurling in the stronger counties, its just the case that there is quite a few counties that are equally as bad.

When all is said and done, Kilkenny have way more all Ireland medals per head of population than any other county.

TrueGael

With respect Flukey your post is just mindbogglingly naive and totally divorced from reality.

Yes everyone can only play 15 but as today's game (and many before showed) Dublin because of their enormous playing pool had superstars on their bench and weren't at all affected by the harsh black card of Cooper. Whereas for Mayo losing Keegan was an absolute disaster as they just don't even have his calibre elsewhere on the starting XV let alone the bench

Population alone isn't enough to dominate like Dublin are as China and India prove, you need the organisation and financial arsenal to back it up and Dublin have both of these factors in spades. Allied to having game on their home patch and you are left with the monopoly the GAA Created which has totally distorting a once great competition

DEFTLEFTHAND

Kilkenny did put out a senior football team in Div 4 of the league about 4 or 5 years ago. It was a disaster, they were beat off the park by everyone. Absolute cricket score hammerings.

Jayop

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Kilkenny did put out a senior football team in Div 4 of the league about 4 or 5 years ago. It was a disaster, they were beat off the park by everyone. Absolute cricket score hammerings.

Naturally that's going to happen for a while till the players get used to playing at that level.

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

Some lovely people up in Tyrone and despite all the bad blood between ourselves and themselves after the u21 final i believe Mickey Harte and Co were absolute gentlemen to the Tipperary supporters after the whistle. Signed autographs, stood in for selfies/photos with kids and adults alike, and the Tyrone supporters wrote a lovely letter of appreciation to the Tipperary county board afterwards thanking them for their great day out in Semple.

Eh...What were they doing in Thurles?

Under 21 final was in Parnell Park. I was at it, and I can assure you there was no hugging and kissing afterwards!

DEFTLEFTHAND

TG might be referring to the Tyrone and Tipperary senior game in the qualifiers last year.

Jayop

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

TG might be referring to the Tyrone and Tipperary senior game in the qualifiers last year.

That was it.

Bonniedog

My bad. Apologies,

Jayop

Bonniedog wrote: »

My bad. Apologies,

No worries. I think the letter may have been in an attempt to repair relations between the two given the bad blood from the U21 game.

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Eh...What were they doing in Thurles?

Under 21 final was in Parnell Park. I was at it, and I can assure you there was no hugging and kissing afterwards!

The seniors met in the championship backdoor stages in 2015. Tyrone won easily. Mickey Harte stayed behind and signed autographs for all the kids, etc.

K-9

Jayop wrote: »

Naturally that's going to happen for a while till the players get used to playing at that level.

Kilkenny had a team in the league for years and it made no difference because they'd no support.

As for Flukey's post, it has no bearing in reality and really only surfaced because Dublin are doing what they should be doing based on population size.

11 years between 86 and 97 was a famine in Kerry, so 1 AI in 28 years was a disaster for Dublin.

But there's just no way you can compare a Leitrim or Fermanagh 15 with Dublin in any sane, real world, non fanboy metric.

Utopia Parkway

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large

BonnieSituation

Interesting... with such discrepancies you'd have to really give us something else to go to really show the apparent bias?

Is that for all sports? One sport etc?

Disgrace that no one in Wales, Scotland or Man got anything.

TrueGael

Wow I knew Dublin were receiving preferential treatment from the GAA (have to be blind not to see that) but I had no idea it was that stark. Even withstanding all the advantages they enjoy both directly and indirectly the GAA think it's fair to give a Dublin child anywhere from €10-15 for every euro a kid from Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Galway will receive

Particularly in the case of Cork, Galway and Limerick & Belfast which are all big urban areas and receiving a relative pittance. I guess they don't think those counties are capable of forming a big enough bandwagon which the GAA can milk down the line

I think it puts the accomplishments of Kerry (14 times less p.c) and even more particularly Mayo (12 times less p.c) into context for as competitive as they were against such a Monster, they worry is that GAA will just blissfully ignore these injustices as Dublin continue to sweep all before them for the next 10 years while the rest of Ireland will be a comparative wasteland.

Nonevernomore

Why is the issue being ignored? Obviously any Dubs don't want to discuss it because it taints their All Ireland's but why is the media so silent on it?

Bonniedog

Nonevernomore wrote: »

Why is the issue being ignored? Obviously any Dubs don't want to discuss it because it taints their All Ireland's but why is the media so silent on it?

You have an unhealthy obsession with the success of Cumann Lúthcleas Gael, Baile Átha Cliath.

Would you not buy a dog or something?

Godge

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large

Where did you get this from?

The original data I mean. All very well to post up an unrepresentative map with no details of the data behind it.

Biloxi Blues

Nonevernomore wrote: »

Why is the issue being ignored? Obviously any Dubs don't want to discuss it because it taints their All Ireland's but why is the media so silent on it?

Because "Dermo" getting a tear in his jersey is far more important than the health of the GAA!

Fair play to the likes of Ewan McKenna who has been one of the few journalists with the balls to highlight the biggest financial doping this country has ever seen. Most of the mainstream are too gutless to even acknowledge the elephant in the room.

Biloxi Blues

Godge wrote: »

Where did you get this from?

The original data I mean. All very well to post up an unrepresentative map with no details of the data behind it.

It's all based on freely available information and analysed by Shane Mangan who is researching an MSc in Data Analytics in Sport. So will the Dubs chose to attack the information or the researcher, the message or the messenger? Or just hope it goes quiet again, like it did before?

Biloxi Blues

TrueGael wrote: »

Particularly in the case of Cork, Galway and Limerick & Belfast which are all big urban areas and receiving a relative pittance. I guess they don't think those counties are capable of forming a big enough bandwagon which the GAA can milk down the line

The GAA would want to ask for the millions given to Dublin hurling back if they are basing it on hoped-for-bandwagons. It's still three men and a dog who turns up to see the Dublin hurlers.