Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Guinness Pro12 2015/2016 Season thread

Options
24567…47

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,012 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I don't really have an issue with the Christmas derbies, they're a good idea in my opinion. .... however i do have an issue with the fact they are organised around an Irish training camp which means we do not get to see the first teams play each other.

    Also, those betting odds are mad.
    Id advise anyone to be getting on Munster definitely and Glasgow now as the odds are favorable.


  • Options
    #33
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,012 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Actually scratch that, I don't know where awec got those odds ??

    Pp has top 3 as:
    Glasgow 5/2
    Munster 11/4
    Leinster 3/1

    Which makes a lot more sense to me.


  • Options
    #34
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,073 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    I don't really have an issue with the Christmas derbies, they're a good idea in my opinion. .... however i do have an issue with the fact they are organised around an Irish training camp which means we do not get to see the first teams play each other.

    I love the derbies around Christmas, and it is practical for the players and fans, but you are right - we don't get our best teams on the pitch at that time.


  • Options
    #35
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Actually scratch that, I don't know where awec got those odds ??

    Pp has top 3 as:
    Glasgow 5/2
    Munster 11/4
    Leinster 3/1

    Which makes a lot more sense to me.

    365

    http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/uk-ireland/guinness-pro12/grand-final-winner


  • Options
    #36
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yea I used bet365. Never checked any others.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    total former wrote: »
    Realistically they are, otherwise you're asking players to travel abroad at Christmas. I don't like that our derbies are devalued either but it's just the way it is.

    Also, so long as attendances remain high, as they are across the board, then there's no real imperative to change.

    And fans.


  • Options
    #38
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    Realistically they are, otherwise you're asking players to travel abroad at Christmas. I don't like that our derbies are devalued either but it's just the way it is.

    Also, so long as attendances remain high, as they are across the board, then there's no real imperative to change.
    .ak wrote: »
    And fans.

    A severe lack of lateral thinking going on here. If teams don't want to travel at Christmas the answer is not to put the most lucrative games in the competition on then, only to be completely wasted.


  • Options
    #39
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Well I sorta agree. I think there should be Derbys around that time, but I think they should be rotated.


  • Options
    #40
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    .ak wrote: »
    Well I sorta agree. I think there should be Derbys around that time, but I think they should be rotated.

    It's ludicrous to waste the derbies on that weekend. There are plenty of other times when they can be played. Taking a week off for christmas is far far preferable to having the dirt trackers playing inter-provincial derbies.


  • Options
    #41
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    A severe lack of lateral thinking going on here. If teams don't want to travel at Christmas the answer is not to put the most lucrative games in the competition on then, only to be completely wasted.

    Wasted how? The attendances are very healthy, derbies make the most sense logistically, unless you mean just have no games at all?

    Edit: I see you do mean to have no games at all. There just aren't any spare weekends going unless you have another direct clash with an international and that's not ideal either.

    As I said yesterday, "wasting" the derbies with weak teams is an IRFU decision, nothing to do with the structure of the league.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    Wasted how? The attendances are very healthy, derbies make the most sense logistically, unless you mean just have no games at all?

    Edit: I see you do mean to have no games at all. There just aren't any spare weekends going unless you have another direct clash with an international and that's not ideal either.

    There's tonnes of other weekends. Start the season a week earlier if necessary. Move non-essential games to midweek, there are plenty of other options that the league could take if maximising competitiveness was the primary concern.


  • Options
    #43
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    The league can't deem some matches "non-essential" just to suit the Irish derbies! Bit of a two fingers to Dragons or Zebre or whoever, no?

    This problem gets fixed overnight if the provinces send out their full teams. No rescheduling, no extra weeks needed.

    It's not just to suit the Irish derbies, we aren't the only people playing derbies at that time.

    Also, the league and TV companies ALREADY rank the games based on their importance, this would be absolutely nothing new.

    The IRFU aren't going to scrap their Christmas training camp, so if the game is played over christmas there will be no chance of seeing full strength teams.


  • Options
    #44
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It's not just to suit the Irish derbies, we aren't the only people playing derbies at that time.

    Also, the league and TV companies ALREADY rank the games based on their importance, this would be absolutely nothing new.

    The IRFU aren't going to scrap their Christmas training camp, so if the game is played over christmas there will be no chance of seeing full strength teams.

    All the derbies happen at Christmas, because ALL the unions want it that way.

    Yes TV companies choose games based on importance, that's totally different from scheduling midweek games.

    This isn't going to change. These derbies are good crowd pullers, the TV companies are happy and it's what the unions want. There is literally zero drive to change.


  • Options
    #45
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    All the derbies happen at Christmas, because ALL the unions want it that way.

    You figure?
    total former wrote: »
    Yes TV companies choose games based on importance, that's totally different from scheduling midweek games.
    Not really. Scheduling midweek games isn't the only option anyway, there's weekends where those games can be played, however I think TV might prefer midweek fixtures.
    total former wrote: »
    This isn't going to change. These derbies are good crowd pullers, the TV companies are happy and it's what the unions want. There is literally zero drive to change.

    The reason it's not going to change is because it's what the IRFU want and it's what Feehan and his committee want. The league is going to be subserviant to the Six Nations for as long as it's run by the same people and worth considerably less money (which is a catch 22). The TV companies would obviously much prefer if these games were as big as they should be but the TV companies have very little power because their financial contribution is so small in comparison to the profits that come out of international rugby.


  • Options
    #46
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Personally it doesn't bother me that much. It's 1 or 2 games that we're talking about here. There's another 4 or 5 inter-pros on top of that plus all the other rugby. It's a small price to pay. And with Ireland doing well it's certainly worth it in my view.


  • Options
    #47
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I think it would be a good idea to kick off the season with derbies across the board. The league season always starts quietly and I think an Irish derby (you can rotate who plays who each year) would gain attention right away.


  • Options
    #48
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Personally it doesn't bother me that much. It's 1 or 2 games that we're talking about here. There's another 4 or 5 inter-pros on top of that plus all the other rugby. It's a small price to pay. And with Ireland doing well it's certainly worth it in my view.

    It's not a big price to pay right now, but its symptomatic of a bigger problem which could cause us considerable financial issues in the future .


  • Options
    #49
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Personally it doesn't bother me that much. It's 1 or 2 games that we're talking about here. There's another 4 or 5 inter-pros on top of that plus all the other rugby. It's a small price to pay. And with Ireland doing well it's certainly worth it in my view.

    Is there any evidence that you can't have A without B? Is playing one or two more matches going to make much of a difference to Ireland?


  • Options
    #50
    RichieRich89
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 511 ✭✭✭RichieRich89


    Is no-one else interested in seeing what level the non-internationals are at in the Munster Leinster derby? You need a strong squad these days and it'll hopefully be a good chance for the likes of O'Donoghue and Kelleher to showcase their talents this year


  • Options
    #51
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    RichieRich89 wrote: »
    Is no-one else interested in seeing what level the non-internationals are at in the Munster Leinster derby? You need a strong squad these days and it'll hopefully be a good chance for the likes of O'Donoghue and Kelleher to showcase their talents this year

    Im interested in seeing those players play, but I'm in no way interested in sacrificing the biggest fixture in the league to do it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    The IRFU will probably rotate it again in a year or two so that we go back to not having Munster v Leinster at Christmas and the issue will resolve itself anyway.


  • Options
    #53
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    The IRFU will probably rotate it again in a year or two so that we go back to not having Munster v Leinster at Christmas and the issue will resolve itself anyway.

    Except they'll rotate Ulster v Leinster into it's place...


  • Options
    #54
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Except they'll rotate Ulster v Leinster into it's place...

    Or Leinster v Connacht, but yes, exactly.


  • Options
    #55
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Is there any evidence that you can't have A without B? Is playing one or two more matches going to make much of a difference to Ireland?

    What we're talking about there is the Ireland camp at Christmas coinciding with the inter-pros at Christmas. Ultimately this is what the issue is. That clash means we don't have full strength squads. And if we assume for now that inter-pros at Christmas will remain (a safe bet given the logistics around Christmas time) then could we really move the Ireland camp? And if so to when exactly do we move it given the timing of the European games?


  • Options
    #56
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    Or Leinster v Connacht, but yes, exactly.

    Well it's already on just days later, there's two interpros on.


  • Options
    #57
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,721 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Worst case scenario this year is that the four provinces could be playing their European games away from home on Sunday 20th December.

    Would it be possible for the Irish Squad to go into Irish camp on Monday 21st Dec to Wed 23rd Dec and allow the lads return to the provinces for the post Xmas Pro12 games.

    How long are they normally in camp over the Xmas period?


  • Options
    #58
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Well it's already on just days later, there's two interpros on.

    But last season, the second interpro (Leinster v Ulster) was full strength so no issue.

    The issue is that it's Munster v Leinster that is being devalued. No one really cared when it was the other interpro games on the 26/27th.


  • Options
    #59
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    total former wrote: »
    But last season, the second interpro (Leinster v Ulster) was full strength so no issue.

    The issue is that it's Munster v Leinster that is being devalued. No one really cared when it was the other interpro games on the 26/27th.

    They did, don't you remember the uproar when BMcL sent the Ravens to the RDS?

    It wasn't as big a deal when Ulster were in the doldrums because the games weren't as relevant. Now with the addition of playoffs and the increased competitiveness of the league they are huge missed opportunities. One of the best Leinster games last season was the Ulster game.


  • Options
    #60
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    They did, don't you remember the uproar when BMcL sent the Ravens to the RDS?

    It wasn't as big a deal when Ulster were in the doldrums because the games weren't as relevant. Now with the addition of playoffs and the increased competitiveness of the league they are huge missed opportunities. One of the best Leinster games last season was the Ulster game.

    Nothing like the complaints that arose last Christmas IIRC but anyway...

    I don't disagree that it reduces the competitiveness of the fixture. But the unalterable reality is that derbies will happen over Christmas. That is just not going to change because it suits quite literally everyone, unions, clubs, fans and TV. The only variable is which derby happens when and that's not a flaw of the league or its structure.

    So the only solution to this issue is relaxation of the IRFU demands on player management. Personally I can't imagine anyone really benefits from a two-day get together in Carton House but so long as Joe wants it, that's how it's going to be.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    total former wrote: »
    Nothing like the complaints that arose last Christmas IIRC but anyway...

    I don't disagree that it reduces the competitiveness of the fixture. But the unalterable reality is that derbies will happen over Christmas. That is just not going to change because it suits quite literally everyone, unions, clubs, fans and TV. The only variable is which derby happens when and that's not a flaw of the league or its structure.

    So the only solution to this issue is relaxation of the IRFU demands on player management. Personally I can't imagine anyone really benefits from a two-day get together in Carton House but so long as Joe wants it, that's how it's going to be.

    I'm sure if there was no benefit to it Joe wouldn't have been shy in scrapping it. Isn't it that camp that they properly review the AIs? I'm sure there's also discussion about how they're going to approach the upcoming 6Ns.


Advertisement