Guinness Pro12 2015/2016 Season thread

wp_rathead

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures_list.php#VghUtBcsJdOtGypM.97

Fixtures out for 15/16

awec

Mod - moved post and created new thread for next season

awec

Next season's odds sorted in order. I have no idea why Leinster and Munster are shorter odds than Glasgow.

Leinster 5/2
Munster 11/4
Glasgow 10/3
Ulster 4/1
Ospreys 11/2
Scarlets 20/1
Edinburgh 40/1
Cardiff 50/1
Connacht 50/1
Dragons 100/1
Treviso 500/1
Zebre 500/1

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

Next season's odds sorted in order. I have no idea why Leinster and Munster are shorter odds than Glasgow.

Leinster 5/2
Munster 11/4
Glasgow 10/3
Ulster 4/1
Ospreys 11/2
Scarlets 20/1
Edinburgh 40/1
Cardiff 50/1
Connacht 50/1
Dragons 100/1
Treviso 500/1
Zebre 500/1

Munster will be less affected by international call ups than Glasgow so odds make sense. No idea how Leinster have shortest odds

Podge_irl

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster will be less affected by international call ups than Glasgow so odds make sense. No idea how Leinster have shortest odds

Sexton. But he's not gonna play enough to make a difference. Though if we make the playoffs we will give us every shot.

wp_rathead

not sure what is in the charter regarding linking to other forums, but the Scarlets fans are none to pleased with the fixture list

thomond2006

wp_rathead wrote: »

not sure what is in the charter regarding linking to other forums, but the Scarlets fans are none to pleased with the fixture list

I can't blame them. Horrific start to the season and then 3 Friday home games in three weeks.

vienne86

awec wrote: »

Next season's odds sorted in order. I have no idea why Leinster and Munster are shorter odds than Glasgow.

Leinster 5/2
Munster 11/4
Glasgow 10/3
Ulster 4/1
Ospreys 11/2
Scarlets 20/1
Edinburgh 40/1
Cardiff 50/1
Connacht 50/1
Dragons 100/1
Treviso 500/1
Zebre 500/1

So Leinster are favourites? Now what would that be based on?

phog

wp_rathead wrote: »

not sure what is in the charter regarding linking to other forums, but the Scarlets fans are none to pleased with the fixture list

I haven't read too much of this season's fixtures but the Welsh in general are very annoyed at all the Sunday evening games they get.

TBH, while TV is great for those who can't or won't go games some of the scheduling is murdering attendances.

Something will have to give.

CatFromHue

Is it S4C who want the Sunday games?

I thought it was Welsh driven somehow that they end up with them.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

Is it S4C who want the Sunday games?

I thought it was Welsh driven somehow that they end up with them.

Almost certainly not.

Simon Thomas a Welsh rugby journalist has mentioned the Sunday slot being left to S4C as opposed to it being their choice.

nc6000

I see Connacht v Edinburgh will clash with the World Cup final.

nc6000

nc6000 wrote: »

I see Connacht v Edinburgh will clash with the World Cup final.

Bit of a payne for Connacht that Henshaw won't be available.


(see what I did there)

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit of a payne for Connacht that Henshaw won't be available.


(see what I did there)

Please leave.

Richard Hillman

No Lansdowne Road game for Leinster?

total former

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No Lansdowne Road game for Leinster?

The Munster game will be moved there.

total former

It would also appear that there is no Italian tv deal in place again.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

Almost certainly not.

Simon Thomas a Welsh rugby journalist has mentioned the Sunday slot being left to S4C as opposed to it being their choice.

Ah right, I thought S4C did a weekend round up on a Sunday that they liked to do right after a game.

CatFromHue

total former wrote: »

It would also appear that there is no Italian tv deal in place again.

In week 3 Zebre v Lanelli has TBA/S4C down under the TV broadcaster and in week 6 Treviso v Leinster has Sky down as the broadcaster so hopefully there's something in the pipeline. I can't see S4C or Sky setting up themselves over there for those two games.

armchaircoach

phog wrote: »

I haven't read too much of this season's fixtures but the Welsh in general are very annoyed at all the Sunday evening games they get.

TBH, while TV is great for those who can't or won't go games some of the scheduling is murdering attendances.

Something will have to give.

Seeing as most of the Welsh fans could travel together to matches in a Fiat 500, maybe the league is just being realistic and scheduling games to suit clubs that actually have fans showing up

sydneybound

armchaircoach wrote: »

Seeing as most of the Welsh fans could travel together to matches in a Fiat 500, maybe the league is just being realistic and scheduling games to suit clubs that actually have fans showing up

100% agree!

If the Welsh actually turn up for matches it would actually help matters.

Games at Parc Y Scarlets, Arms Park and Rodney Parade often have 5,000 odd or slightly less. Given Ulster & Leinster often attract 15,000 - 18,000 it makes sense to suit them a little more. Hopefully Munster can pull their numbers up this year but would probably be better than the Ospreys.

phog

armchaircoach wrote: »

Seeing as most of the Welsh fans could travel together to matches in a Fiat 500, maybe the league is just being realistic and scheduling games to suit clubs that actually have fans showing up

There's a few issues with attendances in Wales but pushing Sunday games on them isn't helping anyone, especially the league.

Wang King

Could be a real lean year for attendences in this years pro12 & could possibly lead to a much needed revamp.

total former

Wang King wrote: »

Could be a real lean year for attendences in this years pro12 & could possibly lead to a much needed revamp.

What would you suggest for a revamp?

Welsh attendances will improve when the teams do. People will turn up at whatever time for a winning team, not so much for mediocrity.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

What would you suggest for a revamp?

Welsh attendances will improve when the teams do. People will turn up at whatever time for a winning team, not so much for mediocrity.

Not putting the Munster game at a time when the Union knows it will be devalued would be wonderful.

So frustrating to see the Munster/Connacht games being played over christmas/new year again. Such a massive waste.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not putting the Munster game at a time when the Union knows it will be devalued would be wonderful.

So frustrating to see the Munster/Connacht games being played over christmas/new year again. Such a massive waste.

That's a tweak rather than a revamp, but derby matches over Christmas are absolutely inevitable and will remain in whatever structure you come up with. That players are rested is an IRFU decision, not a function of the league structure.

Wang King

While you have the Italian teams draining money from the league, and absolutely no TV support for the league, rubbish TV scheduling, and no attempt at growing the market, then this year is going to be pretty poor money wise for the pro12.

alias no.9

sydneybound wrote: »

100% agree!

If the Welsh actually turn up for matches it would actually help matters.

Games at Parc Y Scarlets, Arms Park and Rodney Parade often have 5,000 odd or slightly less. Given Ulster & Leinster often attract 15,000 - 18,000 it makes sense to suit them a little more. Hopefully Munster can pull their numbers up this year but would probably be better than the Ospreys.

6pm KO's on a Friday won't do much to help that

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

That's a tweak rather than a revamp, but derby matches over Christmas are absolutely inevitable and will remain in whatever structure you come up with. That players are rested is an IRFU decision, not a function of the league structure.

Derby matches over christmas are not absolutely inevitable at all.

The fact players are rested is doubtlessly an IRFU decision, but so is the scheduling. The IRFU and the league are not the same body but they're tied at the hip both in terms of the personnel involved as well as their interests.

phog

sydneybound wrote: »

100% agree!

If the Welsh actually turn up for matches it would actually help matters.

Games at Parc Y Scarlets, Arms Park and Rodney Parade often have 5,000 odd or slightly less. Given Ulster & Leinster often attract 15,000 - 18,000 it makes sense to suit them a little more. Hopefully Munster can pull their numbers up this year but would probably be better than the Ospreys.

Munster actually increased their tickets sales for the league last season. They complained about Friday evening kick offs and were rewarded with two out of five 6pm kick offs on Friday evenings this season.

The league has to help clubs grow the game.

Kick off times play as much part if not more in attendances as does the quality of the game/teams.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Derby matches over christmas are not absolutely inevitable at all.

Realistically they are, otherwise you're asking players to travel abroad at Christmas. I don't like that our derbies are devalued either but it's just the way it is.

Also, so long as attendances remain high, as they are across the board, then there's no real imperative to change.

sydthebeat

I don't really have an issue with the Christmas derbies, they're a good idea in my opinion. .... however i do have an issue with the fact they are organised around an Irish training camp which means we do not get to see the first teams play each other.

Also, those betting odds are mad.
Id advise anyone to be getting on Munster definitely and Glasgow now as the odds are favorable.

sydthebeat

Actually scratch that, I don't know where awec got those odds ??

Pp has top 3 as:
Glasgow 5/2
Munster 11/4
Leinster 3/1

Which makes a lot more sense to me.

vienne86

sydthebeat wrote: »

I don't really have an issue with the Christmas derbies, they're a good idea in my opinion. .... however i do have an issue with the fact they are organised around an Irish training camp which means we do not get to see the first teams play each other.

I love the derbies around Christmas, and it is practical for the players and fans, but you are right - we don't get our best teams on the pitch at that time.

duckysauce

sydthebeat wrote: »

Actually scratch that, I don't know where awec got those odds ??

Pp has top 3 as:
Glasgow 5/2
Munster 11/4
Leinster 3/1

Which makes a lot more sense to me.

365

http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/uk-ireland/guinness-pro12/grand-final-winner

awec

Yea I used bet365. Never checked any others.

.ak

total former wrote: »

Realistically they are, otherwise you're asking players to travel abroad at Christmas. I don't like that our derbies are devalued either but it's just the way it is.

Also, so long as attendances remain high, as they are across the board, then there's no real imperative to change.

And fans.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Realistically they are, otherwise you're asking players to travel abroad at Christmas. I don't like that our derbies are devalued either but it's just the way it is.

Also, so long as attendances remain high, as they are across the board, then there's no real imperative to change.

.ak wrote: »

And fans.

A severe lack of lateral thinking going on here. If teams don't want to travel at Christmas the answer is not to put the most lucrative games in the competition on then, only to be completely wasted.

.ak

Well I sorta agree. I think there should be Derbys around that time, but I think they should be rotated.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Well I sorta agree. I think there should be Derbys around that time, but I think they should be rotated.

It's ludicrous to waste the derbies on that weekend. There are plenty of other times when they can be played. Taking a week off for christmas is far far preferable to having the dirt trackers playing inter-provincial derbies.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

A severe lack of lateral thinking going on here. If teams don't want to travel at Christmas the answer is not to put the most lucrative games in the competition on then, only to be completely wasted.

Wasted how? The attendances are very healthy, derbies make the most sense logistically, unless you mean just have no games at all?

Edit: I see you do mean to have no games at all. There just aren't any spare weekends going unless you have another direct clash with an international and that's not ideal either.

As I said yesterday, "wasting" the derbies with weak teams is an IRFU decision, nothing to do with the structure of the league.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Wasted how? The attendances are very healthy, derbies make the most sense logistically, unless you mean just have no games at all?

Edit: I see you do mean to have no games at all. There just aren't any spare weekends going unless you have another direct clash with an international and that's not ideal either.

There's tonnes of other weekends. Start the season a week earlier if necessary. Move non-essential games to midweek, there are plenty of other options that the league could take if maximising competitiveness was the primary concern.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

The league can't deem some matches "non-essential" just to suit the Irish derbies! Bit of a two fingers to Dragons or Zebre or whoever, no?

This problem gets fixed overnight if the provinces send out their full teams. No rescheduling, no extra weeks needed.

It's not just to suit the Irish derbies, we aren't the only people playing derbies at that time.

Also, the league and TV companies ALREADY rank the games based on their importance, this would be absolutely nothing new.

The IRFU aren't going to scrap their Christmas training camp, so if the game is played over christmas there will be no chance of seeing full strength teams.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's not just to suit the Irish derbies, we aren't the only people playing derbies at that time.

Also, the league and TV companies ALREADY rank the games based on their importance, this would be absolutely nothing new.

The IRFU aren't going to scrap their Christmas training camp, so if the game is played over christmas there will be no chance of seeing full strength teams.

All the derbies happen at Christmas, because ALL the unions want it that way.

Yes TV companies choose games based on importance, that's totally different from scheduling midweek games.

This isn't going to change. These derbies are good crowd pullers, the TV companies are happy and it's what the unions want. There is literally zero drive to change.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

All the derbies happen at Christmas, because ALL the unions want it that way.

You figure?

total former wrote: »

Yes TV companies choose games based on importance, that's totally different from scheduling midweek games.

Not really. Scheduling midweek games isn't the only option anyway, there's weekends where those games can be played, however I think TV might prefer midweek fixtures.

total former wrote: »

This isn't going to change. These derbies are good crowd pullers, the TV companies are happy and it's what the unions want. There is literally zero drive to change.

The reason it's not going to change is because it's what the IRFU want and it's what Feehan and his committee want. The league is going to be subserviant to the Six Nations for as long as it's run by the same people and worth considerably less money (which is a catch 22). The TV companies would obviously much prefer if these games were as big as they should be but the TV companies have very little power because their financial contribution is so small in comparison to the profits that come out of international rugby.

molloyjh

Personally it doesn't bother me that much. It's 1 or 2 games that we're talking about here. There's another 4 or 5 inter-pros on top of that plus all the other rugby. It's a small price to pay. And with Ireland doing well it's certainly worth it in my view.

thomond2006

I think it would be a good idea to kick off the season with derbies across the board. The league season always starts quietly and I think an Irish derby (you can rotate who plays who each year) would gain attention right away.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Personally it doesn't bother me that much. It's 1 or 2 games that we're talking about here. There's another 4 or 5 inter-pros on top of that plus all the other rugby. It's a small price to pay. And with Ireland doing well it's certainly worth it in my view.

It's not a big price to pay right now, but its symptomatic of a bigger problem which could cause us considerable financial issues in the future .

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Personally it doesn't bother me that much. It's 1 or 2 games that we're talking about here. There's another 4 or 5 inter-pros on top of that plus all the other rugby. It's a small price to pay. And with Ireland doing well it's certainly worth it in my view.

Is there any evidence that you can't have A without B? Is playing one or two more matches going to make much of a difference to Ireland?

RichieRich89

Is no-one else interested in seeing what level the non-internationals are at in the Munster Leinster derby? You need a strong squad these days and it'll hopefully be a good chance for the likes of O'Donoghue and Kelleher to showcase their talents this year

irishbucsfan

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Is no-one else interested in seeing what level the non-internationals are at in the Munster Leinster derby? You need a strong squad these days and it'll hopefully be a good chance for the likes of O'Donoghue and Kelleher to showcase their talents this year

Im interested in seeing those players play, but I'm in no way interested in sacrificing the biggest fixture in the league to do it.