Final Fantasy VII Remaster/Remake

martingriff

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Hmm, for me tedium and padding is the deadliest sin in any game, so this thread doesn’t fill me with confidence that this is for me

Sometimes padding is good for a game especially if it a remake. Also don't forget they are pulling stuff from the entire FF VII universe and not just the original

Retr0gamer

I'm sorry but padding is just bad game design. There's no excuse.

Doctor Jimbob

martingriff wrote: »

Sometimes padding is good for a game especially if it a remake. Also don't forget they are pulling stuff from the entire FF VII universe and not just the original

TBH I think I'd prefer padding to inclusions from the rest of the FF7 universe.

I'm increasingly sure this game might not be for me but ah well. I'll still play the feck out of it once I get it.

RedXIV

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm sorry but padding is just pad game design. There's no excuse.

Oh I see what you did there!

seandotcomm

Lots of padding in the journey to the sector 5 reactor but I enjoyed all of it. Really enhances the overall scale of the city imo
Banter between the party is really good and so is the buildup of anticipation to the main job ahead.
they do a good job of adding to the gravitas of what you're about to do.

Sidenote: Game.co.uk still haven't shipped my Deluxe edition which I ordered on 30th of March. glad I went for the Shopto standard edition as a failsafe

one armed dwarf

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm sorry but padding is just pad game design. There's no excuse.

Comes down to the argument for the content itself. I think the reactor 5 stuff is bad tbh, but the game makes a good argument for the Aerith sections being longer imo.

Like it's about what is going on with these characters, is this extra time being spent in a meaningful way? Definitely not in some cases, absolutely yes in others.

Tbh Retro tho I think there's not a lot you can contribute to this argument without seeing the game for yourself, and no offense intended by that! It's hard to stress how different this thing is while being the same

Except you read the spoilers so maybe you already get what I mean

Morpork

martingriff wrote: »

Sometimes padding is good for a game especially if it a remake. Also don't forget they are pulling stuff from the entire FF VII universe and not just the original

Right and remember in the original, you'd have to run around in circles for hours to grind your level up? I'd much rather have side quests and padding to gain experience than just plain grinding.

Also padding has a negative connotation where as you could just as easily call it extra content. I'm happy to have extra content from a universe I've loved for years. But as one armed dwarf said that might not be the case with people who haven't played the original.

gimli2112

Yeah I was thinking the same. Side quests are essentially padding as is, technically earning xp in an online fps to unlock extra stuff.

one armed dwarf

Like to just talk about chapter 8 for a second

There's a moment where they play an altered version of Aerith's theme. It's the scene where you're at the playground. There's nothing special about the scene really other than it's a famous scene from the original game that people will probably remember.

What I found interesting is in the original game Aeris' theme was like this midi orchestra outpouring of grief, it's only played twice in the original game IIRC. In Remake the theme feels pitched somewhere between sad nostalgia and a sense of hope. I know this sounds insane but the soundtrack feels to be aimed at manipulating emotions in a way that isn't just nostalgia bait. Like they know that you know what happens later which is what I'm getting at when I say that this game will lose some of its impact for the audience who haven't played the original.

I ****ed up Cloud's equipment during this scene cause I was crying lol

Zero-Cool

In the early parts with Tifa, does the camera center on her boobs or is it just my imagination?

Mikiek14

My copy from gamestop finally shipped! Taught i get it early but at least i get it for release day!

martingriff

Morpork wrote: »

Right and remember in the original, you'd have to run around in circles for hours to grind your level up? I'd much rather have side quests and padding to gain experience than just plain grinding.

Also padding has a negative connotation where as you could just as easily call it extra content. I'm happy to have extra content from a universe I've loved for years. But as one armed dwarf said that might not be the case with people who haven't played the original.

I agree with you with the grinding. Grinding can be awful and been able to do it with quest is great. The 1 thing I hope they upgrade in the next part in relation to grinding is the Chocobo breeding.

But ya it might feel different to the different generations who played the original

st_jimmy

Mikiek14 wrote: »

My copy from gamestop finally shipped! Taught i get it early but at least i get it for release day!

Yep just got the same notification. Glad we will have it before the bank holiday.

ReverseGiraffe

same here from gamestop just got the email now

Morpork

Zero-Cool wrote: »

In the early parts with Tifa, does the camera center on her boobs or is it just my imagination?

That's what I'll be doing anyway! Thank god I'm getting it on the weekend :pac:

Retr0gamer

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Comes down to the argument for the content itself. I think the reactor 5 stuff is bad tbh, but the game makes a good argument for the Aerith sections being longer imo.

Like it's about what is going on with these characters, is this extra time being spent in a meaningful way? Definitely not in some cases, absolutely yes in others.

Tbh Retro tho I think there's not a lot you can contribute to this argument without seeing the game for yourself, and no offense intended by that! It's hard to stress how different this thing is while being the same

Except you read the spoilers so maybe you already get what I mean

You're getting me wrong. Padding is just needlessly extending a game with content that is lazy and not fun. So dungeons that go on forever with repeated enemies is padding. Sidequests that are nothing more than basic mmo levels of kill X amount of enemies is padding. Dungeons with bad switch puzzles that just waste your time is padding.

Extended story sections or new additional areas with meaningful gameplay I wouldn't class as padding. They're more expansions or extensions of the scenario and are welcome.

Morpork wrote: »

Right and remember in the original, you'd have to run around in circles for hours to grind your level up? I'd much rather have side quests and padding to gain experience than just plain grinding.

I played through the original lately and other than super bosses there is absolutely no requirement to do any grinding in the original game. The majority of FF games since the 16 bit days have been balanced that you don't need to go grinding.

Zero-Cool

Episode 4 of Inside. Music and Sound Effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DliMpiemUy8

sniper_samurai

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You're getting me wrong. Padding is just needlessly extending a game with content that is lazy and not fun. So dungeons that go on forever with repeated enemies is padding. Sidequests that are nothing more than basic mmo levels of kill X amount of enemies is padding. Dungeons with bad switch puzzles that just waste your time is padding.

Extended story sections or new additional areas with meaningful gameplay I wouldn't class as padding. They're more expansions or extensions of the scenario and are welcome.



I played through the original lately and other than super bosses there is absolutely no requirement to do any grinding in the original game. The majority of FF games since the 16 bit days have been balanced that you don't need to go grinding.

Agreed, unless you are going to fight the Weapons or have been excessively fleeing from battles there is no need to grind in the original game.

Ah lads, come outa that

FF6,7,8,9,10 all had grinding

Random battles every 2 minutes or less

sniper_samurai

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah lads, come outa that

FF6,7,8,9,10 all had grinding

Random battles every 2 minutes or less

That isn't grinding. Grinding is when you go to farm those random encounters for xp instead of progressing onwards.

It's not Dragon Quest where you have to fight slimes for nearly an hour before it is safe to walk more than 20 feet outside the starter town.

It's most certainly a grind

And the majority of those needed you to be at certain levels at certain sections of the game

It's even worse in FF8 9 and 10

I remember getting stuck so many times only because I hadn't leveled high enough to pass certain bosses

That's grinding

Retr0gamer

Don't want to sound all git gud and that but it's called being ****e at the game.

FF from 4 on are really nicely balanced so that you don't need to grind to beat them. If you go through the game as normal you will have no problems if you use the right tactics. Maybe for the final boss but that's when you should be doing optional end game stuff and levelling up naturally.

There's absolutely no need to grind in a good modern jrpg unless you are running away from most battles. FF 7 on particular is a cake walk. Biggest difficulty spike is demon wall who is grand if you know to put party in back row, something is European with no previous jrpg knowledge probably didn't know.

You still need to compete all those battles to successfully be at those levels

Hundreds of them that happen and that's not running around in circles

Standard play

It's grinding regardless

one armed dwarf

FFVIII is such an odd case that it's difficult to talk about. You actually make that game harder for yourself with grinding, better to just have the correct magic (which can be got from items).

But I've done a lot of playthroughs with VII where I just run through and don't run around in circles levelling up and still clear bosses. That's not a brag but just saying that the game is balanced around you having what you need. All grinding does is make things easier, not make impossible things possible.

Certain materia gives you more of a leg up, like HP plus and enemy skill. But even without that it is possible to not grind. Games like SMT are what I think of when ppl mention grinding

Honestly grinding in FF is basically like you are adjusting the difficulty slider for yourself, similar to Dark Souls in a way

Dungeons are Dungeons too

Im interested to here a more sophisticated Dungeon in a recent JRPG

Retr0gamer

Deleted User wrote: »

You still need to compete all those battles to successfully be at those levels

Hundreds of them that happen and that's not running around in circles

Standard play

It's grinding regardless

The definition for grinding for most people isn't leveling up from natural progression through the game. If you design a modern RPG well then mindless grinding by gong around in circles looking for battles should be eliminated as it's not good game design.

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Games like SMT are what I think of when ppl mention grinding

I've beaten a lot of SMT games and none that I've played require level grinding either. People like to say it and even the faqs you read will say it as well. SMT is a different beast and far more involved and complex than any FF. You don't need to grind, you just have to fight cleverly. Stat buffs and debuffs for instance are hugely important in that game but are useless in most other RPGs.

For instance read a faq about SMT: Nocturne. Matador is an infamous difficulty spike and most will tell you to level grind like crazy. However if you fight clever you will notice he is tough because he keeps boosting agility. Bring agility buffs and debuffs into the battle and he is manageable.

Now the very first Final Fantasy game, that's a game that requires grinding!

Deleted User wrote: »

Dungeons are Dungeons too

Im interested to here a more sophisticated Dungeon in a recent JRPG

Well Kat Bailey did mention it took her 4 hours to get through one dungeon which to me is excessive. And she said they were all very linear in design.

Plenty of RPGs out there with excellent dungeon design. Grandia is excellent. Etrian Odyssey series as well.

Even FF has some great ones. FFVIIs train graveyard, the final dungeon in FF8,

Repeat battles through areas from point a to point b can be classified as a grind

Routine battles that are repetitive in nature

Ff7 train yard is literally move trains in a row, very similar to flipping a switch all while getting caught in random battles

I'm not seeing how this is any more Sophisticated

fixXxer

I remember playing FF7 normally and getting stuck against that boss that was a wall/demon thing. Had to spend ages ryunning up and down the corridor fighting baddies to farm XP to progress. It's been a long long time since I played FF7 but there were definitely spots in the normal game where you had to go off and battle to get your self leveled up.

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Repeat battles through areas from point a to point b can be classified as a grind

Routine battles that are repetitive in nature

Ff7 train yard is literally move trains in a row, very similar to flipping a switch all while getting caught in random battles

I'm not seeing how this is any more Sophisticated

Well that's not the usual definition of grinding.

Train graveyard isn't a great example in fairness but it's a nice short section that uses the environment well. Not a 4 hour linear slog.

fixXxer wrote: »

I remember playing FF7 normally and getting stuck against that boss that was a wall/demon thing. Had to spend ages ryunning up and down the corridor fighting baddies to farm XP to progress. It's been a long long time since I played FF7 but there were definitely spots in the normal game where you had to go off and battle to get your self leveled up.

Again put your characters in the back row and it's a cake walk. There's other ways of doing it with haste and slow as well. You have the tools. Just for us Europeans it was likely our first taste of a jrpg and we hadn't a clue.

one armed dwarf

Deleted User wrote: »

Repeat battles through areas from point a to point b can be classified as a grind

Routine battles that are repetitive in nature

Ff7 train yard is literally move trains in a row, very similar to flipping a switch all while getting caught in random battles

I'm not seeing how this is any more Sophisticated

Well you're just using a different definition to what many others understand then. A lot would say that running through that train yard killing random ghosts is just what the core gameplay loop was back then. It's the genre.

What I understand as 'grinding' is doing optional/unnecessary content/fights in order to make things more easy, or to pass some challenge. Or doing more than what's needed just to pass muster

WRT Demon Wall the trick as mentioned was you need to put your party in the back row to escape the big damage it does and keep it within natural HP levels.

I've beaten Matador retro, you do need to grind a bit to beat bosses like Lucifer if you go that far with things. The trap they pull on you in that game is they give you Dante (from the Devil May Cry series) and he's actually kind of crap and you can't fully remove him from your rotation. So if you invest in that guy you've already screwed yourself


In FFVII remake for what it's worth I haven't done any side quests at all and have had a fairly intense but comfortable challenge. Chapter 9 has the hardest boss yet but from what I can see the majorly damaging attacks can be avoided. The game is very linear anyway so having grinding as a requirement straight up wouldn't work here. You'd have to restart the entire game