White Male Privilege

The Diabolical Monocle

Robroy36 wrote: »

Foreman only promoted the grill, Michael Boehm invented it.

there ya go. thats why white men have the white men privilege.

hatrickpatrick

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is a very strange conversation. Everyone seems to notionally want equality but they just keep countering each other as if it's OK that there's an anti women boss if there's an anti men boss too. That's equality in a sense but it's not what I mean when I say equality.

It's not ideal equality, but it's preferable to one-sided bigotry.
For example, it would be ideal if there was no sexism in advertising, but it's far worse that sexism is allowed in one direction but not the other, because that amounts to discrimination against the group which is not protected.

hatrickpatrick

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Ya it is really strange - it's like when someone is accused of bad behaviour in some form, and then they try to deflect that by calling the accuser a hypocrite - which, even if true, still doesn't negate the bad behaviour.

No, but it does mean the accuser is the wrong person to take up the question, and furthermore if the accuser's demographic is "allowed" to engage in bad behaviour which the accused's demographic is not, that's a far bigger problem.

Are we agreed that there should be absolutely no demographic-specific rules, with the exception of some rules regarding young age (not allowed to buy drink for instance)?

blatantrereg

White male privilege only works if you act like it should.
Also you need to speak with a reasonably posh accent.

El_Duderino 09

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not ideal equality, but it's preferable to one-sided bigotry.
For example, it would be ideal if there was no sexism in advertising, but it's far worse that sexism is allowed in one direction but not the other, because that amounts to discrimination against the group which is not protected.

I agree and would like to change that. And again you seem to think that simply pointing to more inequality is the solution.

Why do you think 2 sided bigotry is preferable to one sided bigotry? They're both inferior to equality.

Tin Foil Hat

MistyCheese wrote: »

All I can gather about privilege is that people are always ordering others to check theirs. 'Check your privilege' they'll say. So I guess whatever it is it's important. Or a flight risk. Maybe even both.

I'd love to know how to, 'check my privilage'. Am I supposed to stop what I'm doing, look in a mirror, say to myself, "It's great to be white", and then carry on? Because that, to me, seems only a step away from pulling on a pillowcase over my head.

Letree

I am a white male and i wouldn't have it any other way. That's the truth i wouldn't want to have been born a woman or non white. I'm not going to be made feel guilty about it either.

KomradeBishop

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, but it does mean the accuser is the wrong person to take up the question, and furthermore if the accuser's demographic is "allowed" to engage in bad behaviour which the accused's demographic is not, that's a far bigger problem.

You missed the point - it doesn't matter who the criticism is coming from, trying to claim they are a hypocrite is a fallacy - it is an invalid argument, and it's an attempt at deflecting from criticism.

It is valid as a means of reducing someones credibility, but what you're talking about, is trying to reduce someones credibility based upon their demographic - which is discrimination; and when their argument is sound, it is deceptive to try and attack the persons credibility and attempt to avoid the criticism, knowing the criticism is valid.

bb1234567

Letree wrote: »

I am a white male and i wouldn't have it any other way. That's the truth i wouldn't want to have been born a woman or non white. I'm not going to be made feel guilty about it either.

You're not supposed to feel guilty. You're just supposed to acknowledge the fact that you as a white male are afforded opportunities in life that certain other groups will never have.

Letree

bb1234567 wrote: »

You're not supposed to feel guilty. You're just supposed to acknowledge the fact that you as a white male are afforded opportunities in life that certain other groups will never have.

Such as?

enfant terrible

Letree wrote: »

Such as?

It's kind of how like how all the best basketball players are black, so they should acknowledge they are only good because of their privileged genes.

Panic E

AlphaRed wrote: »

white male privilege

It's a cool name for a band anyway

the evasion_kid

Panic E wrote: »

It's a cool name for a band anyway

Yeah some kind of redneck skinhead band

Panic E

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Yeah some kind of redneck skinhead band

I was thinking more hipster-funk. Oh, the irony

Letree

I consider this 'white male privilege' rubbish a prejudiced movement against white men.

Is this going to get better or worse as white people become a smaller and smaller percentage of the population of western nations?

We aren't liked by a lot of other races out there. I think it is foolish to allow ourselves become a smaller majority and even a minority in our native countries. Its not going to end well. I predict outright racism and discrimination against white people if and when we become a minority in western countries.

Panic E

Yeah, I think it's b0ll0x anyway. It's all relative. I'm white and male.

I still come from a poor background and had a disadvantageous upbringing.

bb1234567

Panic E wrote: »

Yeah, I think it's b0ll0x anyway. It's all relative. I'm white and male.

I still come from a poor background and had a disadvantageous upbringing.

As has been said many times in this thread being white and male doesn't mean your life will be all be plain sailing it just means that as a white male you are more likely to live a privileged lifestyle than other groups.

Anyway, I don't like threads like these because they are all american terms and apply mostly to life in america and not us, and if they do its on a much smaller scale here.

bb1234567

Letree wrote: »

I consider this 'white male privilege' rubbish a prejudiced movement against white men.

Is this going to get better or worse as white people become a smaller and smaller percentage of the population of western nations?

We aren't liked by a lot of other races out there. I think it is foolish to allow ourselves become a smaller majority and even a minority in our native countries. Its not going to end well. I predict outright racism and discrimination against white people if and when we become a minority in western countries.

I agree. But in order for that to happen , us europeans need to start making babies. Which we aren't doing very well at. Its either we invite immigrants here to supply a labour force or our countries populations become too aged to pay for anybodys pensions and eventually the nation dies out. We aren't allowing these immigrants in out of the goodness of our hearts and its not a liberal conspiracy trying to wipe out white people, its a simple matter of westerners not producing enough children to sustain the population.

arayess

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Well, most CEOs are men, men aren't punished professionally for choosing to start a family, there are countries where women are legally chattel and women have to deal with constantly being told what they should look like by the media.

Your criteria?

actually if they want to do the corporate rat race thing , leaving work at 5 or 6 to see your kids before bed isn't going to happen.
It's a nonsense that women alone need to choose career or family.
everybody does.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

A good old fashioned hole-digging gender war thread! By golly it's been a while!

Panic E

bb1234567 wrote: »

As has been said many times in this thread being white and male doesn't mean your life will be all be plain sailing it just means that as a white male you are more likely to live a privileged lifestyle than other groups.

Great! Another reason for me to feel more marginalized, I guess I'm a failure now too. This white male privilege thing sucks ass.

Cold War Kid

Panic E wrote: »

Great! Another reason for me to feel more marginalized, I guess I'm a failure now too. This white male privilege thing sucks ass.

I'm a middle-class white woman in the West, I am a member of a more privileged group - no problem with acknowledging it. Not sure what there is to feel victimised about.
If your opinions are dismissed because you are a member of that group, then yes, that's reason to be pissed off, but there's nothing wrong with simply stating the group has privileges other groups don't have.

silverfeather

The problem is people are taught to see racism or sexism or any ism as individual acts of meanness and not in invisible systems conferring dominance on any one group.

When you go to a place to eat or use cash or credit if you are white you can count on the colour of your skin NOT to work against you in going about your daily business.

You can make little mistakes and not have people put this down to your colour.

The dominant group ...white women white men or men, heterosexuals or rich people or any dominant group is never aware of the invisible support systems they enjoy.

Often in fact they live in fear that the other groups are 'simply out to get them' and are morally inferior.

People from the northside here are often suspected of being morally inferior as a Travellors. You can quote all statistics as you like but if you don't take people as you find them if you hold them to a double standard that is proof of your own privilege.

There is a difference between earned strength and unearned power.

Heterosexual privileged means families automatically being accepted being publicly allowed to express affections. Cis gendered privilege means not having your identity questioned and mocked.

Panic E

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I'm a middle-class white woman in the West, I am a member of a more privileged group - no problem with acknowledging it. Not sure what there is to feel victimised about.
If your opinions are dismissed because you are a member of that group, then yes, that's reason to be pissed off, but there's nothing wrong with simply stating the group has privileges other groups don't have.

I was joking, to a degree. However. First up, what are these privileges you speak of? Maybe it is the reason my opinions are dismissed.

I was homeless for a while before, yet I'm not a priority for social housing. Guess why? Because I am a privileged (white?) male.

I was raised in a poor household, There was also a lot of violence and abuse that I was privvy and subjected to.

I started working when I was 12 (I'm 30) nobody ever helped me out back then, and even since

And it's not something I talk about except for on recovery websites but guess what?

It doesn't matter much because I am a 'privileged white male'.

I'm also a single father BTW.

silverfeather

Panic E wrote: »

I was joking, to a degree. However. First up, what are these privileges you speak of? Maybe it is the reason my opinions are dismissed.

I was homeless for a while before, yet I'm not a priority for social housing. Guess why? Because I am a privileged (white?) male.

I was raised in a poor household, There was also a lot of violence and abuse that I was privvy and subjected to.

I started working when I was 12 (I'm 30) nobody ever helped me out back then, and even since

And it's not something I talk about except for on recovery websites but guess what?

It doesn't matter much because I am a 'privileged white male'.

I'm also a single father BTW.

You are misunderstanding the concept. Whilst you yourself were homeless you were the victim of the privileges of the dominant group. Had you been female you would have been in more danger on the streets believe me. Had you been foreign or a traveller the same could be said.

You probably had people asking or thinking about you 'Why does he not walk around even asking for a job in these cafes etc'. Those people don't realize as I am sure you did that a cafe would sometimes balk at a homeless person even buying a coffee there. It's why so few places do sponsored or suspended teas and coffees despite them being a wonderful idea.

That is class privilege. You were the victim of it. People would have suspected your morality more 'Are you on drugs ..will you spend this money on drugs etc'.

People think the concept of privilege is to victimize one group. It's not it is against an unfair system.

silverfeather

By the way Panic E...I am ever so glad you are not homeless now. And well done for surviving what you have come through.

Respect!
I am REALLY sorry all of that happened to you.

Someone SHOULD have helped you.


My dad came from a poor background. But with amazing parents who loved him. He is my hero.

Cold War Kid

Panic E wrote: »

I was joking, to a degree. However. First up, what are these privileges you speak of? Maybe it is the reason my opinions are dismissed.

I was homeless for a while before, yet I'm not a priority for social housing. Guess why? Because I am a privileged (white?) male.

I was raised in a poor household, There was also a lot of violence and abuse that I was privvy and subjected to.

I started working when I was 12 (I'm 30) nobody ever helped me out back then, and even since

And it's not something I talk about except for on recovery websites but guess what?

It doesn't matter much because I am a 'privileged white male'.

I'm also a single father BTW.

Sorry to read it, that must have been very difficult. It certainly does not matter that you're a white male - that does not invalidate your struggles. Anyone who says it can't have been bad for you because you're a white male, is full of ****.

I don't think anyone's saying individual white men or women are guaranteed a life of privilege, just that the overall group they are part has more privilege than other groups. In America anyway - because that's where the term comes from.

Eugene Norman

White privilege is American ****. Americans are free to believe that American whites are privileged and cuturally dominant as opposed to American blacks in the U.S.;, but neither American blacks, Whites, Browns or any colour of Yank is underprivileged or culturally less dominant than a Romanian, a highlander, a Belorussian, a Kajikistani, a Cavan bogger or any other number of actual real whites across the actual real world we actually really live in.

It's a tribute to American cultural hegemony that it can be both hegemonic and blame the whites and other pseudo privileged groups for hegemony.

The more a country is colonised by America the more we ignore cultural hegemony by America and worry instead about cisgenderism, black lives mattering (provided they are American), white privilege and the other rot that seeps from empire. Nobody talks about Yank privilege.

Meanwhile in places less colonised by the American hegemony, like France and particularly Russia (which fights back with Russia Today) those memes barely exist and they talk primarily about American cultural domination.

Eugene Norman

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Sorry to read it, that must have been very difficult. It certainly does not matter that you're a white male - that does not invalidate your struggles. Anyone who says it can't have been bad for you because you're a white male, is full of ****.

I don't think anyone's saying individual white men or women are guaranteed a life of privilege, just that the overall group they are part has more privilege than other groups. In America anyway - because that's where the term comes from.

Yeah that's nice for America. Black and other non white Americans join the army, vote for imperialism, support Israel, generally supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Maybe we shouldn't adopt American ideas of who is actually running the world.

hatrickpatrick

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I agree and would like to change that. And again you seem to think that simply pointing to more inequality is the solution.

…? You can't tackle inequality against men unless you first point out to a lot of people who trivialise it, that it's a serious problem which should be dealt with. Drawing attention to it is the first step in ultimately eradicating it.

Why do you think 2 sided bigotry is preferable to one sided bigotry? They're both inferior to equality.

Analogy for you. Two kids are told that they can't watch TV, for no reason (not being punished or anything like that). Both of them are going to be pissed, no question.

Scenario two: One is told they can't watch TV but the other can, again for no reason. Now not only is the second one bummed because he or she can't watch TV, but they're also resentful because there's an injustice in seeing one of them being treated better than the other or being given perks the other is not.

Both scenarios suck for the kids involved, but scenario one doesn't involve discrimination or injustice, so it's marginally better.

EDIT: I apply this in the opposite direction as well, btw. For instance, in a world in which women are shamed for sleeping around but men aren't, the ideal would be for neither to be shamed - but both men and women facing the same societal bullsh!t for being promiscuous would be preferable to the current scenario in which only women do. At least then, it wouldn't be unfairly discriminating against one group.

There's nothing worse than being on the wrong end of a double standard.