White Male Privilege

Panic E

Um no worries, I guess I was only trying to illustrate the point in that I don't particularly believe in it.

With happiness as the main currency, if you want to examine it more closely Maslow's needs chart is a good start...

If you look at that hierarchy and believe in it then gender, race and even geography don't have any meaningful influence.

Lyaiera

catallus wrote: »

They demand freedom and then they complain when they are free.

Women are more free.

Masculinity is in crisis. Men don't know who they are any more. Woman don't know who they are either, but at least they get to choose who they want to be. If a woman works hard, and makes tough choices and sacrifices she can often rise to a level previously unknown by women.

The rise of feminism came when women fought against the choices they were forced to make. Prostitution meant women could find independence with the only distinction unique to women.* Education meant women could know as much as men. Suffrage meant women could play a part in politics. Contraception meant women were no longer punished for sex. Women can dream of being whoever they want to be, they are no longer subject to their "femininity."

This is not the case for men. Men don't know what it means to be a man anymore, but they keep looking. It's why so many look for psychological differences between the sexes. They're looking for definition of who they are and who they are meant to be.

The answer is we are equal. You are free to be who you want to be. You will face challenges, you will face prejudice and oppression. But at the very least we should ensure the dream of "Who can I be!" stays alive for as many people for as long as possible.

*My apologies to the Kinsey scale. I know many within both sexes will find relief with their own sex if forced.

bb1234567

Lyaiera wrote: »

Women are more free.

Masculinity is in crisis. Men don't know who they are any more. Woman don't know who they are either, but at least they get to choose who they want to be. If a woman works hard, and makes tough choices and sacrifices she can often rise to a level previously unknown by women.

The rise of feminism came when women fought against the choices they were forced to make. Prostitution meant women could find independence with the only distinction unique to women.* Education meant women could know as much as men. Suffrage meant women could play a part in politics. Contraception meant women were no longer punished for sex. Women can dream of being whoever they want to be, they are no longer subject to their "femininity."

This is not the case for men. Men don't know what it means to be a man anymore, but they keep looking. It's why so many look for psychological differences between the sexes. They're looking for definition of who they are and who they are meant to be.

The answer is we are equal. You are free to be who you want to be. You will face challenges, you will face prejudice and oppression. But at the very least we should ensure the dream of "Who can I be!" stays alive for as many people for as long as possible.

*My apologies to the Kinsey scale. I know many within both sexes will find relief with their own sex if forced.

Spoken like a true meninist!

Shenshen

Lyaiera wrote: »

Women are more free.

Masculinity is in crisis. Men don't know who they are any more. Woman don't know who they are either, but at least they get to choose who they want to be. If a woman works hard, and makes tough choices and sacrifices she can often rise to a level previously unknown by women.

The rise of feminism came when women fought against the choices they were forced to make. Prostitution meant women could find independence with the only distinction unique to women.* Education meant women could know as much as men. Suffrage meant women could play a part in politics. Contraception meant women were no longer punished for sex. Women can dream of being whoever they want to be, they are no longer subject to their "femininity."

This is not the case for men. Men don't know what it means to be a man anymore, but they keep looking. It's why so many look for psychological differences between the sexes. They're looking for definition of who they are and who they are meant to be.

The answer is we are equal. You are free to be who you want to be. You will face challenges, you will face prejudice and oppression. But at the very least we should ensure the dream of "Who can I be!" stays alive for as many people for as long as possible.

*My apologies to the Kinsey scale. I know many within both sexes will find relief with their own sex if forced.

I would whole-heartedly agree with the above.
But I think that this new identity will only be found when attributes we normally associate with femininity actually become gender-neutral. The reason men are struggling so much more than women is that if a woman goes after something considered male, that attribute already comes with higher social status. So the woman is bettering herself and increasing her standing.

However, a man pursuing something generally labled "female" is going after something of lesser value, he's lowering himself socially.
As long as "female" actions and occupations carry the stigma of being worth less, being lower down the ladder, not worth going for men will be stuck with a very, very narrow playing field.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Is it because they've contributed the most to society? In their customs, laws and inventions which they spread out to the rest of the world.

Why is the White man so revered? Remember a lot of them were also war mongers and colonisers , very bad people, please don't worship them. They're bad boys.

bb1234567

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Is it because they've contributed the most to society? In their customs, laws and inventions which they spread out to the rest of the world.

Why is the White man so revered? Remember a lot of them were also war mongers and colonisers , very bad people, please don't worship them. They're bad boys.

They contributed most to society by not allowing anybody else to contribute

Shenshen

bb1234567 wrote: »

They contributed most to society by not allowing anybody else to contribute

Well, that's just human nature really. Tribal.

The main reason why European culture was able to take over the world is most likely geographical. If you're interested, I would recommend "Guns, germs and steel" by Jared Diamond. Great read and very good insights.

going_bald

bb1234567 wrote: »

You're not supposed to feel guilty. You're just supposed to acknowledge the fact that you as a white male are afforded opportunities in life that certain other groups will never have.

what exactly would acknowledging it ( if indeed its true ) achieve ?

nothing ?

but like most forms of political correctness , its an exercise in sounding good rather than doing good

going_bald

Lyaiera wrote: »

Women are more free.

Masculinity is in crisis. Men don't know who they are any more. Woman don't know who they are either, but at least they get to choose who they want to be. If a woman works hard, and makes tough choices and sacrifices she can often rise to a level previously unknown by women.

The rise of feminism came when women fought against the choices they were forced to make. Prostitution meant women could find independence with the only distinction unique to women.* Education meant women could know as much as men. Suffrage meant women could play a part in politics. Contraception meant women were no longer punished for sex. Women can dream of being whoever they want to be, they are no longer subject to their "femininity."

This is not the case for men. Men don't know what it means to be a man anymore, but they keep looking. It's why so many look for psychological differences between the sexes. They're looking for definition of who they are and who they are meant to be.

The answer is we are equal. You are free to be who you want to be. You will face challenges, you will face prejudice and oppression. But at the very least we should ensure the dream of "Who can I be!" stays alive for as many people for as long as possible.

*My apologies to the Kinsey scale. I know many within both sexes will find relief with their own sex if forced.

traditional masculine culture - traits are today potrayed as at best in need of reform and at worst , outright wrong and dangerous

many believe this culture of demonising masculinity is a big contributor to male suicide rates , male suicide rates are far lower in non western countries

going_bald

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Is it because they've contributed the most to society? In their customs, laws and inventions which they spread out to the rest of the world.

Why is the White man so revered? Remember a lot of them were also war mongers and colonisers , very bad people, please don't worship them. They're bad boys.

all races of men engaged in theft of resources and subjugation of others throughout history

Shenshen

going_bald wrote: »

what exactly would acknowledging it ( if indeed its true ) achieve ?

nothing ?

but like most forms of political correctness , its an exercise in sounding good rather than doing good

Can't speak for everyone, but to me being mindful of just how bloody lucky I was in the birth lottery makes me hopefully a little less judgemental towards those who didn't draw winning tickets.

going_bald

Shenshen wrote: »

Can't speak for everyone, but to me being mindful of just how bloody lucky I was in the birth lottery makes me hopefully a little less judgemental towards those who didn't draw winning tickets.

you can avoid being judgemental towards others without having a hangup - guilt complex about ones heritage or race

such considerations are for comfortable middle class people with too much time on their hands , its a symptom of a comfortable society to look for problems that dont exist

c_man

I find Irish people harping on about 'White Male Privilege' funny. It's an American term that has fuk all use or relevance in a country with our history, and indeed one where >90% of the population are 'white' (however you want to define that).

I think some of ye should take a trip down to your local halting site and educate the locals about their status of white male privilege and all that it affords. Ye can help them to see just how privilaged there are and guilty they should feel

conorhal

Privilege has and always will be the preserve of wealth and class. And I say that as somebody that's as far from a Marxist as you can get.
The atomization of society into groups of privilege by the quango classes had done irreparable damage to social cohesion. the 'White Male Privilege' argument is nonsense, it suggests that an unemployed white male living on foodstamps in Arkansas is more privileged then Michelle Obama. The truth is that the only thing dividing them is class and money.

going_bald

c_man wrote: »

I find Irish people harping on about 'White Male Privilege' funny. It's an American term that has fuk all use or relevance in a country with our history, and indeed one where >90% of the population are 'white' (however you want to define that).

I think some of ye should take a trip down to your local halting site and educate the locals about their status of white male privilege and all that it affords. Ye can help them to see just how privilaged there are and guilty they should feel

resident of halting sites are more privelidged than the majority of the population

going_bald

cook99 wrote: »

we need to keep talking and being open

that could mean anything

Shenshen

going_bald wrote: »

you can avoid being judgemental towards others without having a hangup - guilt complex about ones heritage or race

such considerations are for comfortable middle class people with too much time on their hands , its a symptom of a comfortable society to look for problems that dont exist

Good for you, if your non-middle-class background allows you to be so even-handed without the realisation that some people are less lucky than others.

And who said anything about guilt? Would you feel guilty for winning a lottery? I don't.

hatrickpatrick

going_bald wrote: »

that could mean anything

It could indeed.
I'm a little concerned about a section of my bollocks which is slightly balder than the surrounding area.

There, I'm still talking and being open, but………

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

conorhal wrote: »

Privilege has and always will be the preserve of wealth and class. And I say that as somebody that's as far from a Marxist as you can get.
The atomization of society into groups of privilege by the quango classes had done irreparable damage to social cohesion. the 'White Male Privilege' argument is nonsense, it suggests that an unemployed white male living on foodstamps in Arkansas is more privileged then Michelle Obama. The truth is that the only thing dividing them is class and money.

In fairness, no it doesn't, at least not if you understand the term correctly.

White male privilege means that all other things being equal such as nationality, class background, education level etc., a white male is more likely to be more privileged than a female or a black male or whatever you're having yourself.

I think the ideology that insists that white males cannot be discriminated against is poisonous misandry, and I think the notion that white males are more privileged than everyone else all of the time is clearly nonsense. There are several measurable factors whereby being a male is a very clear disadvantage or risk: suicide, likelihood of being the victim of a random violent attack, the rights one has as a parent, the custodial sentence one is likely to receive if convicted of a crime and so forth.

One good thing about the SJW horsecrap is that at least it's made white maleness visible as an identity, rather than an as an invisible yardstick against which other identities are defined.

going_bald

Shenshen wrote: »

Good for you, if your non-middle-class background allows you to be so even-handed without the realisation that some people are less lucky than others.

And who said anything about guilt? Would you feel guilty for winning a lottery? I don't.

anyone with half a brain knows that the average irish person ( regardless of their race ) has a better deal than someone who grew up in sub saharan africa

what i dont appreciate is turning that reality into some kind of pseudo intelectual philosophy which certain groups use in a passive agressive manner in order to further a particular agenda

the same group has no issue with white middle class women in ireland delivering better results in education etc and as someone already pointed out , michelle obama is in a more fortunate possition than some uneducated hick from alabama who grew up in a family of ten in some rural backwater , let alone hillary clinton

tritium

Shenshen wrote: »

Can't speak for everyone, but to me being mindful of just how bloody lucky I was in the birth lottery makes me hopefully a little less judgemental towards those who didn't draw winning tickets.

And if that was the way the concept was used by everyone then the idea of privilege would be useful and worthy and indeed pretty much all of the first worlds population would have cause to count their blessings.

Sadly terms like "white male privilege' are more likely to be used as a sweeping pity whine by those who oblivious to their own " privilege". Its bandied about as covet thy neighbour rather than count your blessings, the droning whinge of spoilt children who only know how to demand more on the basis they feel a sense of entitlement to it.

The answer to anyone who insists you "check your privilege" should almost invariably be " check your own damn privilege".

Panic E

Here's a different angle. Thought I'd share it here as it's relevant & topical http://fansided.com/2014/12/18/floyd-mayweather-thinks-hed-richer-white-boxer/

When you think about what’s going on in the world today as far as racism, it’s a lot of racism that goes on in the sport of boxing,” Mayweather said.

“Because if I was a white, American fighter with the same aura, the same style, I’d be a multibillionaire. Multibillionaire.”

He scammed the whole world last weekend by pretending to us he was having a boxing match and made about 300 million bucks in the process. :pac:

Mayweather believes if he were white, he would be earning more cash. The highest paid athlete on the planet, one of the most privilege people alive

and the man who has made more money from his chosen profession than any other in history believes he is the victim of "White Male Priveledge" ROFL

Shenshen

going_bald wrote: »

anyone with half a brain knows that the average irish person ( regardless of their race ) has a better deal than someone who grew up in sub saharan africa

what i dont appreciate is turning that reality into some kind of pseudo intelectual philosophy which certain groups use in a passive agressive manner in order to further a particular agenda

the same group has no issue with white middle class women in ireland delivering better results in education etc and as someone already pointed out , michelle obama is in a more fortunate possition than some uneducated hick from alabama who grew up in a family of ten in some rural backwater , let alone hillary clinton

My particular agenda would be to further equality, male and female, white and non-white, old and young.

In order to be effective at that, it's necessary to recognise that inequality exist, and then find out exactly where and why.

The whole "white male privilege" is very much centered around financial achievement and power. So when you're looking at how to level the playing field in those areas, acknowledging the fact that white males get dealt the better hand isn't about guilt, it's just recognising reality.

going_bald

tritium wrote: »

And if that was the way the concept was used by everyone then the idea of privilege would be useful and worthy and indeed pretty much all of the first worlds population would have cause to count their blessings.

Sadly terms like "white male privilege' are more likely to be used as a sweeping pity whine by those who oblivious to their own " privilege". Its bandied about as covet thy neighbour rather than count your blessings, the droning whinge of spoilt children who only know how to demand more on the basis they feel a sense of entitlement to it.

The answer to anyone who insists you "check your privilege" should almost invariably be " check your own damn privilege".

its very much in keeping with the anti personal success vibe which is has gained so much ground this past number of years

going_bald

Shenshen wrote: »

My particular agenda would be to further equality, male and female, white and non-white, old and young.

In order to be effective at that, it's necessary to recognise that inequality exist, and then find out exactly where and why.

The whole "white male privilege" is very much centered around financial achievement and power. So when you're looking at how to level the playing field in those areas, acknowledging the fact that white males get dealt the better hand isn't about guilt, it's just recognising reality.

that assumes the correct diagnosis has been made in the first place and more to the point that the right people ( liberals ) are the right people to diagnose

Shenshen

going_bald wrote: »

that assumes the correct diagnosis has been made in the first place and more to the point that the right people ( liberals ) are the right people to diagnose

What would that diagnosis be?
And aren't right people called conservatives?

going_bald

Shenshen wrote: »

My particular agenda would be to further equality, male and female, white and non-white, old and young.

In order to be effective at that, it's necessary to recognise that inequality exist, and then find out exactly where and why.

The whole "white male privilege" is very much centered around financial achievement and power. So when you're looking at how to level the playing field in those areas, acknowledging the fact that white males get dealt the better hand isn't about guilt, it's just recognising reality.

that assumes the correct diagnosis has been made in the first place and more to the point that the right people ( liberals ) are being looked to make that diagnosis

excuse my first post , system wont let me edit , have to re post

zeffabelli

As usual, the same tribes who rabble against generalisations use sweeping ones themselves.

No one will convince me the men of Appalachia have more privilege than Radcliffe graduates or that a petrol station attendant in Georgia, white or black has more privaledge than the Ivy League graduates that run the White House and the Supreme Court.

Ireland is nearly completely white so I can't see how these meme is germane here especially with different expectations of class mobility.

the evasion_kid

Lyaiera wrote: »

Women are more free.

Masculinity is in crisis. Men don't know who they are any more. Woman don't know who they are either, but at least they get to choose who they want to be. If a woman works hard, and makes tough choices and sacrifices she can often rise to a level previously unknown by women.

The rise of feminism came when women fought against the choices they were forced to make. Prostitution meant women could find independence with the only distinction unique to women.* Education meant women could know as much as men. Suffrage meant women could play a part in politics. Contraception meant women were no longer punished for sex. Women can dream of being whoever they want to be, they are no longer subject to their "femininity."

This is not the case for men. Men don't know what it means to be a man anymore, but they keep looking. It's why so many look for psychological differences between the sexes. They're looking for definition of who they are and who they are meant to be.

The answer is we are equal. You are free to be who you want to be. You will face challenges, you will face prejudice and oppression. But at the very least we should ensure the dream of "Who can I be!" stays alive for as many people for as long as possible.

*My apologies to the Kinsey scale. I know many within both sexes will find relief with their own sex if forced.

I would say femininity is just as much in crisis,what feminism did as well as free women from traditional roles it also freed men from theirs.sexual liberation meant "why buy the cow,when the milk is for free" and I think a lot of women are finding themselves on the wrong side of thirty that were probably expecting prince charming to come riding into town the day after they turned thirty and marry them.

hatrickpatrick

Shenshen wrote: »

The whole "white male privilege" is very much centered around financial achievement and power.

Well then the term should be "white male financial privilege", so that it's clear that it doesn't imply white men have all the cards, which is how many extremists have started to use it in recent years.