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Bus Strike (read warning in post #1)

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    #182
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    But continuing to post falsehoods and inferring that those of us who have said differently are liars is just fine? :rolleyes:




    No? Turned out to be 100% correct though, didn't it.

    Anyway thank you for confirming my decision from last year to stop posting altogether on this board.

    cdebru, you are wasting your time. You can explain it 100 different times in 100 different ways and it won't matter a jot. The evil unionised workers are enemy #1 and that is that, without us Ireland would be a rosy paradise with free public transport for all run by shiny happy private sector employees grateful to recieve a nod from Mr Commuter and a boiled sweet from the granny in lieu of an actual wage for the privilege of being allowed to drive them around the country.

    Hope you enjoy the three day ban.

    When I say read the charter before posting again, it's not a request.

    -- moderator


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    #183
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    clunked wrote: »

    Listening to RTE 1 radio this morning, a representative from the private operators more or less admitted that it would result in lower wages for drivers.

    As usual the first thought is the driver and not the customer. That is what is wrong with state companies.


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    #184
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    As usual the first thought is the driver and not the customer. That is what is wrong with state companies.
    one problem. what the poster stated was heard on radio one was apparently stated by a rep from the private operators. so what that has to do with state companies i don't know.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #185
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    dublindiehard wrote: »
    The reason people often quote the average, is because it is a verifiable figure in audited accounts therefore is known to be true, even if it is not perfect way to calculate.



    It is not only not perfect it is misleading, and often used with the intention of misleading the reader, it is used to play up or down wages depending on who is using it and for what purpose, how many times have we seen average pay in the public sector used as an excuse to cut public sector pay when the average is over double what a lot of public sector employees earn.


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    #186
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    end of the road wrote: »
    he did. plenty of it

    Because you said so? He provided links about doctors pay, but nothing about drivers pay.


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    #187
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    cdebru wrote: »
    170 inspectors, 20 chief inspectors, mechanics, other maintenance staff painters, body work, tyres, cleaners, bus stop maintenance, canteen staff, lost property, internal post, clerical staff, management, executives, etc when you add it up and divide it 9 garages, plus head office, then you have to take into account that some of those are working shifts its not that much tbh.
    Lots of that should be outsourced to private companies. It also sounds like a lot of duplication is going on across the garages. They can't even run their core business properly and they reckon they can do the other stuff?
    Canteen and cleaners, really?


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    #188
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,884 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Has it been announced yet what routes are to be privatised?

    Apparently 10% of all routes are to go that way.


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    #189
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    There are 10% of routes going out to tender.

    Public and private companies can put bids in so up to 10% of routes could be in the hands of private operators, but they're not certainly going to be.

    This is regulated tendering, rather than all out de-regulation.


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    #190
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Icepick wrote: »
    Lots of that should be outsourced to private companies. It also sounds like a lot of duplication is going on across the garages. They can't even run their core business properly and they reckon they can do the other stuff?
    Canteen and cleaners, really?

    There is outsourcing in cleaners I think noonans have the contract, but their are some directly employed cleaners as well, particularly the night time bus cleaning operation that requires buses be driven and parked, fueled, and cash box emptied, etc, not something you can just hand out to any joe soap, the canteen food area is outsourced but within the canteen their would be non food areas that have a couple of employees, they would look after the lost property office as well as doubling as porters/security etc, as for duplication across depots you would have to be more specific as to what you are referring to ?

    It seems to me that, a lot of people have no idea, what is required to run a large transport company, spread out over various locations, its not just as simple as a bus and a driver, there is a lot of work behind the scenes to keep everything running.


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    #191
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Has it been announced yet what routes are to be privatised?

    Apparently 10% of all routes are to go that way.

    It is the non city center routes, like the 220, 230, 104, 17a etc


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    #192
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Has it been announced yet what routes are to be privatised?

    Apparently 10% of all routes are to go that way.

    As above they are NOT being privatised. They are going out to tender. DB could still win the tender.

    The route design, schedules, fares etc. will still be determined by the NTA and not whoever operates the route.


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    #193
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    As above they are NOT being privatised. They are going out to tender. DB could still win the tender.

    The route design, schedules, fares etc. will still be determined by the NTA and not whoever operates the route.


    Semantics, they are currently operated by a semi state company they will be offered to tender in which a private company can bid to operate them it is privatisation, ie the sale or transfer of assets or services provided by the state to the private sector. DB will not win the tender, we are not going through all this for the NTA to leave the routes with DB.


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    #194
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    cdebru wrote: »
    It seems to me that, a lot of people have no idea, what is required to run a large transport company, spread out over various locations, its not just as simple as a bus and a driver, there is a lot of work behind the scenes to keep everything running.
    We need to compare the ratio with private companies and other public bus services in the EU then.


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    #195
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    cdebru wrote: »
    Semantics, they are currently operated by a semi state company they will be offered to tender in which a private company can bid to operate them it is privatisation, ie the sale or transfer of assets or services provided by the state to the private sector. DB will not win the tender, we are not going through all this for the NTA to leave the routes with DB.
    Are you suggesting it's going to be ilegally awarded?

    The routes are already badly designed so I am skeptical about much changing.


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    #196
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Icepick wrote: »
    Are you suggesting it's going to be ilegally awarded?

    The routes are already badly designed so I am skeptical about much changing.

    I'm suggesting that this is Ireland and FG want privatisation, and they are not going to allow DB to retain these routes simple as.

    The route design is irrelevant as is the amount.of people they carry, where they go etc etc the tender is to operate them on a fixed payment per kilometre so you get paid for operating if the bus is full or empty the same amount.


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    #197
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Icepick wrote: »
    We need to compare the ratio with private companies and other public bus services in the EU then.

    The last government did that already and it said its staffing levels were in line with similar companies in other jurisdictions.


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    #198
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    If Dublin Bus do go on strike like in Italy why can't they at least have certain services guaranteed in case of strike and have these marked into timetables it is a disgrace that there will be no service whatsoever when it is an essential service that must be provided no matter what


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    #199
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Because you said so? He provided links about doctors pay, but nothing about drivers pay.

    I gave you a link to the DB website human resources ad for new drivers in which the maximum pay scale is stated that is the same pay scale as current drivers, you don't want to accept that because it doesn't suit your argument.


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    #200
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    cdebru wrote: »
    I gave you a link to the DB website human resources ad for new drivers in which the maximum pay scale is stated that is the same pay scale as current drivers, you don't want to accept that because it doesn't suit your argument.

    I just want to back you up on this. A new driver myself in the company. Only thing is the payscale is actually 6 years as opposed to the 4 it used to be.

    Also if you look at arriva in london for driving a london bus, they get 31K a year sterling as opposed to the 565 a week here . Which would make it 29K euro a year.


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    #201
    woodrow wyatt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 109 ✭✭woodrow wyatt


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    I just want to back you up on this.
    Down with this sort of thing!
    Do you not see this kind of crazy talk is not welcome here.


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    #202
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Icepick wrote: »
    Lots of that should be outsourced to private companies.

    no it shouldn't. why should it. just for the sake of it? no . having all that in house provides economies of scale.
    Icepick wrote: »
    It also sounds like a lot of duplication is going on across the garages. They can't even run their core business properly and they reckon they can do the other stuff?

    what are you on about. maintenence staff and other similar staff will have to be duplicated. you think that private companies with multiple depots don't do the same?
    Icepick wrote: »
    Canteen and cleaners, really?

    yes. what of it? i'm sure some private companies provide those services to their staff.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #203
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Icepick wrote: »
    We need to compare the ratio with private companies and other public bus services in the EU then.
    we don't. different set ups will have their systems to their needs

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #204
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    If Dublin Bus do go on strike like in Italy why can't they at least have certain services guaranteed in case of strike and have these marked into timetables it is a disgrace that there will be no service whatsoever when it is an essential service that must be provided no matter what
    its not. the whole point of a strike is to down tools. no point in guaranteeing certain or any services during a strike. its an essential service hence it must be kept in public hands

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #205
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    end of the road wrote: »
    its not. the whole point of a strike is to down tools. no point in guaranteeing certain or any services during a strike. its an essential service hence it must be kept in public hands

    First of all of course a strike is going to cause some disruption but it dosent have to mean completly no service secondly bus services will be kept in public the NTA still own the routes private companies will be operating them on behalf of the NTA


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    #206
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    First of all of course a strike is going to cause some disruption but it dosent have to mean completly no service

    it does. or there is no point.
    stehyl15 wrote: »
    secondly bus services will be kept in public the NTA still own the routes private companies will be operating them on behalf of the NTA

    thats not good enough. it must be kept fully in public hands. controlled publically, ran by a public company

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #207
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    If DB goes on strike presumably if there were sufficient gonads in the NTA they could hire in private contractors to take up some of the slack? Bit like Ronald Reagan and the air traffic controllers.


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    #208
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    If DB goes on strike presumably if there were sufficient gonads in the NTA they could hire in private contractors to take up some of the slack? Bit like Ronald Reagan and the air traffic controllers.


    where is the money going to come from, or the contractors. mind you if it happened, i would hope the union would do what is necessary to ensure no service remained for the duration of the strike. a huge difference between a bus strike and an extremist like Ronald Reagan by the way

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #209
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    end of the road wrote: »
    it does. or there is no point.

    Another good way is for drivers to drive their buses into town at rush hour and park them all up in middle of the street and blocking traffic can get in or out for about two hours a very distruptive way of getting your point across


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    #210
    Tugboats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭Tugboats


    The Irish:o

    Outraged when their fellow citizens like ordinary bus drivers or whoever are trying to protect their income and jobs. They roll out the Im a taxpayer line

    The same "outraged" taxpayers have bent over for Bankers,Politicians, property and water charges and EU bullies.

    The Irish:D:o


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    #211
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    Tugboats wrote: »
    The Irish:o

    Outraged when their fellow citizens like ordinary bus drivers or whoever are trying to protect their income and jobs. They roll out the Im a taxpayer line

    And you seem to forget theres plenty of people sitting on the dole who'd love to be getting 30k a year to drive a bus. Unions are the plague of public transport tbh look at France, Italy and Spain even Germany have some of the best railway infustructure in the world all ruined by unions going on strike


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