The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

timmyntc

Debating here on Boards or even writing columns in the papers and arguing on The Sunday Game about how the players would react and how the players motivation would go is all well and good, but have we heard enough on the matter from the actual players?
I feel like consulting all these players - the Carlow, Waterford, Leitrim players and so on might be a good idea. Have any of these county players deprived of any real success voiced their opinions on the matter?

Jayop

timmyntc wrote: »

Debating here on Boards or even writing columns in the papers and arguing on The Sunday Game about how the players would react and how the players motivation would go is all well and good, but have we heard enough on the matter from the actual players?
I feel like consulting all these players - the Carlow, Waterford, Leitrim players and so on might be a good idea. Have any of these county players deprived of any real success voiced their opinions on the matter?

The GPA have already come up with their own revised format and it's almost perfect. I posted it in the format thread a while back.

timmyntc

Jayop wrote: »

The GPA have already come up with their own revised format and it's almost perfect. I posted it in the format thread a while back.

Really? I must go looking so. If the majority of players could come to a consensus I would think that should settle it. The players after all are the backbone of the GAA, although oftentimes it seems as though they ignore the fact.

ProudDUB

timmyntc wrote: »

Debating here on Boards or even writing columns in the papers and arguing on The Sunday Game about how the players would react and how the players motivation would go is all well and good, but have we heard enough on the matter from the actual players?
I feel like consulting all these players - the Carlow, Waterford, Leitrim players and so on might be a good idea. Have any of these county players deprived of any real success voiced their opinions on the matter?

Yep. A few months ago, Carlow were beaten by a ridiculous score line in the league. It was so bad, the plight of the weaker counties (and what can be done to help them) was the subject of a panel discussion on Off The Ball a few days later. They had lads from Carlow & Leitrim on the show. They were asked specifically about the possibility of competing in a second tier competition. They all said that shutting them out of the "real" All Ireland would drastically impact the willingness of players to commit to intercounty football.

It is issue that I was fairly ambivalent about, as its probably unlikely that my own county will have to deal with a demotion any time soon. But I changed my mind after hearing what the players from the affected counties think. Hence my post above. It's one thing to say on paper what is best for a weaker county. It's another thing entirely for the players who would have to live with the consequences of having a road block put in their way of what they all want - success in Croke Park in the the All Ireland series.

Jayop

timmyntc wrote: »

Really? I must go looking so. If the majority of players could come to a consensus I would think that should settle it. The players after all are the backbone of the GAA, although oftentimes it seems as though they ignore the fact.

It's all in here...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/radical-proposals-from-the-gpa-to-overhaul-football-championships-685774.html

And there's a few boardsies proposals in here including my own which was very close to the gpa one.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057439501

2moreMinutes

I really see no logical need whatsoever for changing the structure as it currently stands. Weaker counties will always get a hammering when they come up against the top counties whether it's in a provincial match as things currently stand or in a round robin match in one of these trendy suggested league formats.

A weaker county grabbing an unlikely win over a stronger county will likely mean nothing in a league format whereas it generally means the world to them in a provincial setting.

The same 4-6 teams will always work their way towards the business end of things with the same number of nothing matches having taken place to get that far no matter the format of the competition.

Although interesting to read through the alternative formats, not one of them will change the outcome of the AI one single bit and they all seem to be change for the sake of change.
Given the GAA's track record, is having a proposed secondary competition completed & out of the way by early June really what players or fans from these counties want?

Jayop

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I really see no logical need whatsoever for changing the structure as it currently stands. Weaker counties will always get a hammering when they come up against the top counties whether it's in a provincial match as things currently stand or in a round robin match in one of these trendy suggested league formats.

A weaker county grabbing an unlikely win over a stronger county will likely mean nothing in a league format whereas it generally means the world to them in a provincial setting.

The same 4-6 teams will always work their way towards the business end of things with the same number of nothing matches having taken place to get that far no matter the format of the competition.

Although interesting to read through the alternative formats, not one of them will change the outcome of the AI one single bit and they all seem to be change for the sake of change.
Given the GAA's track record, is having a proposed secondary competition completed & out of the way by early June really what players or fans from these counties want?

A win in the round robin could see them get into the last 16 overs the main championship. It would at the very least guarantee a home draw in the last 16 of the lower tier championship last 16.

Dirty Dingus McGee

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I really see no logical need whatsoever for changing the structure as it currently stands. Weaker counties will always get a hammering when they come up against the top counties whether it's in a provincial match as things currently stand or in a round robin match in one of these trendy suggested league formats.

A weaker county grabbing an unlikely win over a stronger county will likely mean nothing in a league format whereas it generally means the world to them in a provincial setting.

The same 4-6 teams will always work their way towards the business end of things with the same number of nothing matches having taken place to get that far no matter the format of the competition.

Although interesting to read through the alternative formats, not one of them will change the outcome of the AI one single bit and they all seem to be change for the sake of change.
Given the GAA's track record, is having a proposed secondary competition completed & out of the way by early June really what players or fans from these counties want?

Apart from almost all championship matches being a complete waste of time prior to August?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

DDC1990

Why not go back to straight knock out.

If you are one of the first 16 teams knocked out then you play in a second tier championship.

Gives everyone a shot at the ultimate crown, reinvigorates the Provincial Championship, gives the smaller counties something to play for.

Seed the the Provincial championships to get away from the big hammerings.

Previous provincial Final pairing get a bye to the Provincial Semi Finals the following year.

Provincial Winners and losers go into a Quarter Final.

You 'll find the same teams that are at the top now, still at the top, but,no amount of structuring will change that other then the ludicrous idea of an all out open draw.

bucketybuck

DDC1990 wrote: »

Why not go back to straight knock out.

I've said it before, they should play the provincials and then put 32 teams into the hat for an open draw, straight knockout all-ireland series. It solves all the problems people are trying to fix.

I'll say one thing, as somebody from one of the weaker counties, the day they take us out of the all-ireland for some other mickey mouse trophy is the day I walk away from the sport.

buck65

Have to agree with Jim McGuinness' article in today's Irish Times. Very well written. The Fermanangh supporters celebrating when trailing by 10 points or that was embarassing for everyone.

bucketybuck

buck65 wrote: »

Have to agree with Jim McGuinness' article in today's Irish Times. Very well written. The Fermanangh supporters celebrating when trailing by 10 points or that was embarassing for everyone.

He may have a point in there somewhere but in fairness what did he really expect when it was a division 3 side playing the league champions? He writes as if it was one of the big guns getting beaten, as if it were a division one side who didn't have any belief they could win, and that would indeed be worrying.

I am certainly no fan of moral victories, not in the slightest. But Fermanagh could never have had any expectation of victory on Sunday and everybody knew it, it would have been silly to pretend otherwise. Division 3 against league champions remember?

Commenting on the Fermanagh fans cheering their team off after losing would be like criticising Accrington Stanley fans for cheering their team off after getting to the FA cup quarter finals and losing to Manchester United. They played to the maximum of their potential and thats all any fan can ask.

keeponhurling

The reason people play football is to have fun and make friends.
So a few Fermanagh fans and players enjoyed themselves at a game of football, is that so bad ?

bucketybuck

Interesting the contrast between the last two articles quoted in here. Brolly bemoaning the lack of fun in the game these days and McGuinness saying that every county needs to get more structured and professional. Damn sure I know which ethos I would prefer to see more of.

smeal

Commenting on the Fermanagh fans cheering their team off after losing would be like criticising Accrington Stanley fans for cheering their team off after getting to the FA cup quarter finals and losing to Manchester United. They played to the maximum of their potential and thats all any fan can ask.

Exactly.

Had the Fermanagh fans not cheered on their team, had they given up when the gap between points became further and further, maybe even started to leave, I'm sure Jim McGuinness would consider the GAA to be in an even bigger state of crisis than he already thinks there is.

If it wasn't for this kind of support then each year there would be less and less fans turning out for games and the gap between the stronger and weaker teams would be even larger. It's great to see this support- it's the only way to keep the Championship one bit exciting and the limelight away from the top 6 teams. The Fermanagh fans got their day out in Croker and we should be commending them for their support rather than branding it as cringey.

gaffer91

It is a pity the league isn't the premier competition as the competition and standard of games is often much higher.

An All-Ireland B wouldn't work as the smaller counties wouldn't want it. The provincials should be kept, again for the smaller counties- it means a lot to the likes of Sligo and Roscommon to win them, even if Kerry and Dublin don't care anymore.

An important change would be for central council funding to take account of money counties get from sponsorships and their own fundraising etc. and adjust central funding downwards accordingly to help bridge the funding gap between the likes of Kerry and Dublin and the smaller counties. There's also no real point funding on a per capita basis- underperforming counties should be allocated a disproportionate amount of money. The gap between the elite teams and the rest is a chasm at the moment as McGuinness said today, so it really is for the good of the game, and the competitiveness of it, that the central council try to help bridge it.

Dublin should also be split in two to get rid of their unfair population advantage.

Ceist_Beag

I think people are misinterpreting Jim's article. Personally I don't think he was in any way criticising the Fermanagh fans. I thought it was more that he just felt it showed how big the gap has grown that fans felt happy not to get a hammering. It's not all that long ago (11 years) that Fermanagh narrowly missed out on a place in the AI final and they were extremely competitive in that match. Now just 11 years later the bar was set at avoiding humiliation at quarter final stage. It's not a criticism of Fermanagh but more a reflection of just how wide the gap has grown between the top teams and the rest. Jim is just highlighting this.

Jayop

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The suggestion from the gpa and mcguiness has all 32 counties start the summer in the same competition playing games against the big teams.

buck65 wrote: »

Have to agree with Jim McGuinness' article in today's Irish Times. Very well written. The Fermanangh supporters celebrating when trailing by 10 points or that was embarassing for everyone.

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I think people are misinterpreting Jim's article. Personally I don't think he was in any way criticising the Fermanagh fans. I thought it was more that he just felt it showed how big the gap has grown that fans felt happy not to get a hammering. It's not all that long ago (11 years) that Fermanagh narrowly missed out on a place in the AI final and they were extremely competitive in that match. Now just 11 years later the bar was set at avoiding humiliation at quarter final stage. It's not a criticism of Fermanagh but more a reflection of just how wide the gap has grown between the top teams and the rest. Jim is just highlighting this.

The Fermanagh support was something to be proud of.

corny

Absolutely nothing wrong with supporting and commending lads doing their best.

Only highlight of a dull day in Croke Park for myself.

JB81

Turns out my predictions were not far off, in terms of who won, my margins were conservative though.
Dublin as expected won well and the two farcical goals put a gloss on the scoreline for Fermanagh, but fair play to them over the year, great improvement, hope they keep going next year.
Kerry were very good, although Kildare were woeful, and gave up very early on in the second half, at least Fermanagh kept trying. Kerry will take some beating.
Donegal too strong for Galway, but not as strong as they were back when they won it a few years ago imo.
Tyrone as expected too strong for Sligo and I think they had another gear if needed. Still not fully convincing me we can challenge for Sam.

So next week the real action starts as far as i am concerned. I think Mayo will take Donegal by a kick of the ball, 3 points.
Monaghan are aiming for a semi final / final place to kick on their progress over the last few years, and for me personally Tyrone are in bonus territory. I think Tyrone may catch them on the hop and beat them by a couple of points, wont be the prettiest of games, but a win and i wouldn't care. Setting up a Tyrone - Kerry mouthwatering semi final, which i think will be the end of the road for Tyrone.
Dublin to take Mayo in the semi final in the game of the championship, a Dublin - Kerry final, who wins, cant call it.

buck65

Well one thing that we can say for sure that Mayo won't win!

intellectual dosser

Donegal are going to have to do what they can do for a full 70 minutes if they are to have any chance of beating Mayo. I know we havent seen Mayo challenged this year but they've been efficient with what's been put in front of them so far.

We've a lot of mileage on the clock this summer so far, and a 3rd game in 4 weeks will be a tough handicap.

Plenty of talent there though, McNiallais was a joy on Saturday. I hope they can bring it together.

seanhynes

buck65 wrote: »

Well one thing that we can say for sure that Mayo won't win!

cursed no chance,but the last time the croagh patrick reek climb was called off before this year was 1951:pac:

Poor_old_gill

gaffer91 wrote: »

It is a pity the league isn't the premier competition as the competition and standard of games is often much higher.

An All-Ireland B wouldn't work as the smaller counties wouldn't want it. The provincials should be kept, again for the smaller counties- it means a lot to the likes of Sligo and Roscommon to win them, even if Kerry and Dublin don't care anymore.

An important change would be for central council funding to take account of money counties get from sponsorships and their own fundraising etc. and adjust central funding downwards accordingly to help bridge the funding gap between the likes of Kerry and Dublin and the smaller counties. There's also no real point funding on a per capita basis- underperforming counties should be allocated a disproportionate amount of money. The gap between the elite teams and the rest is a chasm at the moment as McGuinness said today, so it really is for the good of the game, and the competitiveness of it, that the central council try to help bridge it.

Dublin should also be split in two to get rid of their unfair population advantage.

Punish Kerry for putting in place the structures that has allowed them to exploit the ex-pat market? If that's the case then they just won't bother going to the hassle of it anymore.

The fault doesn't lie with Kerry on this issue but with the counties who don't bother coming up with innovative ways of making money- how can people keep on missing this?????

Jayop

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Punish Kerry for putting in place the structures that has allowed them to exploit the ex-pat market? If that's the case then they just won't bother going to the hassle of it anymore.

The fault doesn't lie with Kerry on this issue but with the counties who don't bother coming up with innovative ways of making money- how can people keep on missing this?????

I agree with you to a point but the central council still has funds to spread around and more could be done to help the minnows.

timmyntc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Interesting the contrast between the last two articles quoted in here. Brolly bemoaning the lack of fun in the game these days and McGuinness saying that every county needs to get more structured and professional. Damn sure I know which ethos I would prefer to see more of.

Agreed. Interestingly enough, I found that the Fermanagh game was possibly the most fun match to watch so far this year. Fermanagh committed to tackles, they took on the Dublin players as opposed to just rolling over because 'everyone knows they're not going to beat Dublin'. Those 2 Fermanagh goals, soap opera-esque as they may be, would never have come about had the Fermanagh players not decided to play to their best and enjoy themselves, it was a unique product of both luck and determination that led to both, and you can't criticise anyone for cheering on 2 goals like that.

That Fermanagh performance was genuinely a great one all things considered, and merits all the praise by fans. McGuinness' claim that had they not cheered it would be embarrassing well, if any team's fans don't cheer that is the case. If the Dublin fans didn't cheer for their team having won it would still be embarrassing. Tis a statement that applies almost universally, yet we only think of it in such a small context to push the agenda of a GAA in crisis.

Poor_old_gill

Jayop wrote: »

I agree with you to a point but the central council still has funds to spread around and more could be done to help the minnows.

Maybe so- but there is a lot of woe is me from specific counties that is extremely infuriating.
I know you probably wont know the answer but do these minnows come to the GAA with well though out, clear and structured plans when asking for money or do they just say "give us some sponds lads cos we got hockeyed last year"?

Sometimes a lot of the blame can lie with the ambition of the players and the county boards. I have mates playing senior championship in Westmeath (sorry to single them out) that wouldn't get a look in at Junior level in my county (Kerry) due to the fact that they are so poorly conditioned.

This is not just down to the clubs as the clubs can only do so much but the individuals lack the motivation and ambition to actually do the hard work themselves so no amount of pumping money in will work as what do you do with it if lads aren't bothered.

munchkin_utd

Jayop wrote: »

I agree with you to a point but the central council still has funds to spread around and more could be done to help the minnows.

to quote myself off another thread yesterday

munchkin_utd wrote: »

like a lot of players and fans, theres no thinking of what the numbers look like.

So just so we are on the same wavelength, Dublin get a special "Dublin development" fund of 1.4million of the 9million total fund.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/annual_reports/GAA007_GAA_annual_report_2014_financial_section.pdf
Grand, follow Currans suggestion to kill that grant and give it to all other countys instead and you have 43grand per county (to each of the 32 irish counties, excluding abroad)
That'd get you one full time officer per county, which in all honestly is NOT going to narrow any gap and make the likes of Leitrim into all Ireland contenders.
<snip>

Jayop

munchkin_utd wrote: »

to quote myself off another thread yesterday

It mightn't narrow the gap but giving it to Dublin is only serving yo further expand the gap.