The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

BonnieSituation

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin should also be split in two to get rid of their unfair population advantage.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Good jaysus not this again!

seanhynes

north dublin v south dublin would be a great game

Magill46

BonnieSituation wrote: »

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Good jaysus not this again!

Dublin have won 2 of the last 4 All Ireland's. Both by a kick of the ball. The way people are talking you'd think they were about to complete a 5 in a row.

Magill46

Magill46 wrote: »

Dublin have won 2 of the last 4 All Ireland's. Both by a kick of the ball. The way people are talking you'd think they were about to complete a 5 in a row.

It's probably more likely in the long run though.

Counties competing with them now are likely to die away again but with their current budgets and facilities they'll never experience a dark period.

You see it in under age, they slim to never have poor teams in under age in either code.

They'll take over in the hurling too some day, they're operating at a professional level the past 10 years and no other county will be able to keep par.

I agree its not a discussion for now though, for now it's about reorganising the championship but that Dublin question will come in time I believe.

BonnieSituation

Magill46 wrote: »

Dublin have won 2 of the last 4 All Ireland's. Both by a kick of the ball. The way people are talking you'd think they were about to complete a 5 in a row.

It drives me bananas.

I'm 31 and I've seen us win 3 All-Irelands! 3!

And seen us in (1984, 1985, 1992 were too early for me) 4 finals (at 2) so ye can feck off the lot of ye with your dividing us in two.

jimmytwotimes 2013

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It drives me bananas.

I'm 31 and I've seen us win 3 All-Irelands! 3!

And seen us in (1984, 1985, 1992 were too early for me) 4 finals (at 2) so ye can feck off the lot of ye with your dividing us in two.

i agree, the media is to blame for this. the dubs aren't unbeatable, they're doing well and are a good team but there isn't a gulf between them and the other, perceived, top 4 teams. to be honest, of the top 4 teams it'd be a toss up between them on any given match day.

since i was born (1976), kerry have won 14 all-irelands and that period includes the great famine. where's the call for kerry to be split?

it's an unbelievably silly and probably annoying (from dub point of view) argument. the teams who reside at the top can ebb and flow. if dublin win 15 of the next 25 all-irelands come back to me.

timmyntc

Agreed, splitting Dublin in two is just absurd. For their large population Dublin don't have nearly as huge an advantage as you'd think as it's very urban and largely filled with working professionals than as many close knit footballing communities as would be found in more rural counties.

And if Dublin were ever to be split in two, its a slippery slope which will inevitably lead to Kerry being split, or Mayo or Cork or whoever is dominating the scene at the time.
The solutions here shouldn't be to punish those who have put the work in and have good structures, but to help those with lower budgets and other stuff which inhibits them from getting the proper structures in place in order to succeed. Personally I think the GAA should split some income between counties, at least so they all have equal training facilities and equipment etc. Seems unfair to me that certain counties would have an advantage in resources than others.

Also all this is without considering the tensions and bad feelings a Dublin split could incite, imo a north/south split could lead to violence and attacks say if someone wore a particular jersey through a particular estate etc.

BonnieSituation

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

i agree, the media is to blame for this. the dubs aren't unbeatable, they're doing well and are a good team but there isn't a gulf between them and the other, perceived, top 4 teams. to be honest, of the top 4 teams it'd be a toss up between them on any given match day.

since i was born (1976), kerry have won 14 all-irelands and that period includes the great famine. where's the call for kerry to be split?

it's an unbelievably silly and probably annoying (from dub point of view) argument. the teams who reside at the top can ebb and flow. if dublin win 15 of the next 25 all-irelands come back to me.

I'll take winning this year tbh.

homerjay2005

gaffer91 wrote: »

even if Kerry and Dublin don't care anymore.

.

the reaction of the players afterwards and during the game, suggests otherwise. in fact, that win means 10 times more to the players than any s*ite league game that you are on about.







Cork are now out of the championship, Kerry are into the semi final.

doc_17

That rubbish about splitting Dublin up just won't go away! But wouldn't it have been great to see them play a Leinster QF and an All Ireland QF outside of Dublin. Their supporters would love it!

corny

timmyntc wrote: »

Agreed, splitting Dublin in two is just absurd. For their large population Dublin don't have nearly as huge an advantage as you'd think as it's very urban and largely filled with working professionals than as many close knit footballing communities as would be found in more rural counties.

And if Dublin were ever to be split in two, its a slippery slope which will inevitably lead to Kerry being split, or Mayo or Cork or whoever is dominating the scene at the time.
The solutions here shouldn't be to punish those who have put the work in and have good structures, but to help those with lower budgets and other stuff which inhibits them from getting the proper structures in place in order to succeed. Personally I think the GAA should split some income between counties, at least so they all have equal training facilities and equipment etc. Seems unfair to me that certain counties would have an advantage in resources than others.

Also all this is without considering the tensions and bad feelings a Dublin split could incite, imo a north/south split could lead to violence and attacks say if someone wore a particular jersey through a particular estate etc.

Sweet Jesus.

K-9

Jayop wrote: »

It's all in here...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/radical-proposals-from-the-gpa-to-overhaul-football-championships-685774.html

And there's a few boardsies proposals in here including my own which was very close to the gpa one.

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057439501

Scrapping Provincials or making them stand a lone is a non runner though.

Weaker counties need more games during the Summer and any secondary competitions need to be meaningful, some type of promotion at the end of it. A cup to see who is the best of the rest with no target as regards moving up a level is pointless.

keeponhurling

Magill46 wrote: »

Dublin have won 2 of the last 19 All Ireland's. Both by a kick of the ball. The way people are talking you'd think they were about to complete a 5 in a row.

corrected that for you

keane2097

I'm not sure everyone is being entirely serious at the moment.

Poor_old_gill

timmyntc wrote: »

Agreed, splitting Dublin in two is just absurd. For their large population Dublin don't have nearly as huge an advantage as you'd think as it's very urban and largely filled with working professionals than as many close knit footballing communities as would be found in more rural counties.

And if Dublin were ever to be split in two, its a slippery slope which will inevitably lead to Kerry being split, or Mayo or Cork or whoever is dominating the scene at the time.
The solutions here shouldn't be to punish those who have put the work in and have good structures, but to help those with lower budgets and other stuff which inhibits them from getting the proper structures in place in order to succeed. Personally I think the GAA should split some income between counties, at least so they all have equal training facilities and equipment etc. Seems unfair to me that certain counties would have an advantage in resources than others.

Also all this is without considering the tensions and bad feelings a Dublin split could incite, imo a north/south split could lead to violence and attacks say if someone wore a particular jersey through a particular estate etc.

Scare mongering abú!

This is one of the best statements that I have read on here in a while to be honest (I'm not a Dublin fan by the way).

Do all Dublin fans live in estates?
Do they have a history of stabbing other GAA fans?
Do you know any Dublin fans?

timmyntc

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Scare mongering abú!

This is one of the best statements that I have read on here in a while to be honest (I'm not a Dublin fan by the way).

Do all Dublin fans live in estates?
Do they have a history of stabbing other GAA fans?
Do you know any Dublin fans?

Haha yea I'll be the first to admit that I went quite a bit overboard with that one, mostly to make a point although it seems it got a bit lost.
Basically what I meant to get across was that dividing a county's playing population in 2 does nothing but create barriers between people, granted that almost certainly won't cause violence or 'GAA hate-crimes' even in the extreme, but it could well have the potential to cause certain Dubliners to harbour a bit of contempt for others in the long run.

Of course not all Dubs live in estates and neither are they all gyppos who would stab ya for looking at them wrong. I do know some Dublin fans from both sides of Dublin, and they're both dead on, no nicer lads, etc. They don't have any ill feelings towards each other despite occasionally slagging each other above (posh c***, poor c**t and so on), but at the end of the day they both support the same team and theyre from the same place from a broader perspective. To create a division between them would just be silly in that it would do no good, not that it would incite riots and hate crimes ala Italian football fans

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

Scrapping Provincials or making them stand a lone is a non runner though.

Weaker counties need more games during the Summer and any secondary competitions need to be meaningful, some type of promotion at the end of it. A cup to see who is the best of the rest with no target as regards moving up a level is pointless.

The provincials are great. I'm an Ulster man and as such I would hate anyone to mess with it. However as a method of feeding the quarter finals and Rd4 qualifiers they are farcical.

The point of both of those systems, the GPA's and the one from myself is that;

• All 32 counties enter the tier one competition.
• They all play 3 games in the tier one competition.
• They all have a chance of progressing in the AI to last 16 with 1 win.
• They will all have 1 very competitive game against a team one division away from them
• They will all have a chance to play against the big teams every year
• All 32 counties will have at least one more game making every county in Ireland have at least 4 championship games.
• 16 counties will have 5 games
• 8 counties will have 6 games
• 4 counties will have 7 games
• 2 counties will have 8 games
• The weak counties who do not qualify for the Senior cup still have a meaningful comp to play for.

K-9

I don't think the provincials are broken or anything like that though, we are just going through very uncompetitive times in Comnacht and Leinster. Galway and Roscommon should be ready to challenge Mayo properly now, Meath or whoever need to take the step.

Your idea reminds me of the league set up that was tried in the 90's. I just don't see much benefit for the top 8 or bottom 8 teams.

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

I don't think the provincials are broken or anything like that though, we are just going through very uncompetitive times in Comnacht and Leinster. Galway and Roscommon should be ready to challenge Mayo properly now, Meath or whoever need to take the step.

Your idea reminds me of the league set up that was tried in the 90's. I just don't see much benefit for the top 8 or bottom 8 teams.

The provincials in and off themselves are perfect. I'd be a staunch defender of them.

I just think it's grossly unfair that Donegal would have had to play Tyrone, Armagh, Derry, Monaghan and Galway to get into a quarter final when Mayo had to play Galway and Sligo to get into the same game.

Moving the provincials to a stand alone competition would take no more sheen off them than the qualifier system has already done.

The benefit in the system I outlined for the bottom teams is as follows.

Take a sample group that would spring up from the 8 potential for next year.

Cork
Galway
Sligo
Antrim


The bottom team in that is Antrim so they would have 3 games in the championship. They would have a good crack at Sligo and Galway. Cork would have good games against Galway and possibly Sligo, Sligo would have a decent chance in 2/3 games. That's competitive games in all but 1, Cork Vs Antrim.


If Antrim managed to beat Sligo and get 3 points. Cork won all their games, Sligo beat Galway and Galway beat Antrim then it would come down to the points difference to see who progresses.

The following final table wouldn't be unrealistic.

Cork 9
Antrim 3
Galway 3
Sligo 3

So Antrim progress to the last 16 of the Sam.


It's giving every team in the bottom 8 of the country at least one game against a Div 3 team that they could really go for.

K-9

It might have 1 or 2 competitive groups but there's about 5 or 6 teams that would be just cannon fodder in groups.

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

It might have 1 or 2 competitive groups but there's about 5 or 6 teams that would be just cannon fodder in groups.

As opposed to now? I literally picked those 4 teams at random. I bet I could come up with similar groups if I did the entire thing using a RNG.

At least this will guarantee one game against a side just above them and if they do fair to progress to the top 16 comp then they will have a game against another team who failed to.

Every team should have 2 games they could potentially win.

BonnieSituation

I always rail on the Provincials as bar Ulster they are chronic. I love the Ulster Championship though so it would kill me to see it lost.

But the Provincials as a method of entering into the football Championship is just not on anymore and needs to be ended.

We have a perfectly good method of seeding teams based on league positions. and then they proceed as an oped draw or even as a ladder until the All-Ireland final. Boom.

As you exit that championship you could then end up back into your provincial championship. To me that's how it should be done.

K-9

I think a mini Leinster, Munster and Connacht championship would do more for the weaker counties.

Clare, Waterford, Tipp and Limerick. Carlow, Wicklow, Offaly, Longford, maybe a couple of others. Sligo, Leitrim, NY, London.

3 games each, top 2 go into the proper Championship with competitive games and some confidence. They'd still have the Qualifiers as well.

Some counties might struggle at first but it gives them a genuine achievable target to improve each year.

The leagues are good targets but take Longford and Offaly, all the hard work in the leagues is undone come Championship time.

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

I think a mini Leinster, Munster and Connacht championship would do more for the weaker counties.

Clare, Waterford, Tipp and Limerick. Carlow, Wicklow, Offaly, Longford, maybe a couple of others. Sligo, Leitrim, NY, London.

3 games each, top 2 go into the proper Championship with competitive games and some confidence. They'd still have the Qualifiers as well.

Some counties might struggle at first but it gives them a genuine achievable target to improve each year.

The leagues are good targets but take Longford and Offaly, all the hard work in the leagues is undone come Championship time.

I don't follow that K9

seligehgit

3 divisions of 4 teams,top 2 come out of each and enter the championship proper....

K-9

Its a bit like the mini league in Leinster hurling, Laois have benefited from that.

Munster and Connacht proper would start at the Semi Finals, Cork and Kerry awaiting the 2 top teams. Connacht would need 1 QF/Play off for the Semi.

Leinster would start at Quarter finals, say 6 teams guaranteed based on league performance and 2 coming through the mini league.

Ulster is fine, its up to Antrim to put the effort in.

Dr. Bre

what worries me is how Fermanagh celebrated not getting hammered by the dubs! hate to see something like this as late as a AI quarter final

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

Its a bit like the mini league in Leinster hurling, Laois have benefited from that.

Munster and Connacht proper would start at the Semi Finals, Cork and Kerry awaiting the 2 top teams. Connacht would need 1 QF/Play off for the Semi.

Leinster would start at Quarter finals, say 6 teams guaranteed based on league performance and 2 coming through the mini league.

Ulster is fine, its up to Antrim to put the effort in.

Not really addressing the point at how much harder it is to come though Ulster though is it which is a real bone of contention.

DanielODonnell

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No they wouldn't.

They would surely, they wouldn't have had to play two hard game anyway, Down and Donegal.

Jayop

DanielODonnell wrote: »

They would surely, they wouldn't have had to play two hard game anyway, Down and Donegal.

Assuming they came though in place of Kildare this year they would have had to play Kerry in the semi final and Kerry would have whopped them.