Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Hurling man

TTm u seem very confident in cork coaching ticket I don't think they have covered themselves in glory this year Murphy aside what new players have they discovered ur team who are supposedly way ahead of Waterford were cleaned out by tipp last year in all Ireland Semi final Aidan Walsh if I remember correctly was taken off and I think woodlock and McGrath got the better of midfield battle. Mark Ellis is a good centre back and without him cork seem to struggle but they don't seem to have any alternative I think Jamie Barron is at least as good as Kearney may even have more hurling. The cork full back line now granted have lost one of there best through a very serious injury but Cahallane seems to be playing most games I can't remember his last good one he was the worst player on the field v Limerick last year. One of your best players has opted for football only this year. Anthony Nash who you claim is a way better all round keeper then o Keefe is not even the best keeper in cork. All I can say is roll on June 7

Ropaire

I love when lads start talking up individuals like one player makes a team. If you sent out fifteen Joe Deanes they wouldn't win anything, you need a balanced and well rounded team to win games and name checking lads is futile if they end up marooned in a one man inside forward line.
I believe that the sum of those Waterford players can make up alot more than its parts if they're coached right and sent out to play a system that suits them. Cork have flattered to deceive at times and poxed their way to an all ireland thanks to dubious limerick and kilkenny red cards in 2013, I don't know how we lost to them last year with a weaker team than we have now, prob more confidence than anything for both teams. JBM is some man for one man though, I'd kill to have him in charge of us, but honestly the only thing I'd be worried about is we're not scoring many goals at the minute, but neither are Cork. If we can get the Bennetts closer to goals with decent support that would change pretty quick though. Sure we might have a cut off each other in the league yet, but plenty of time between now and June to fine tune a bit. Roll on Sunday!

stumblingblock

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I agree Waterford have talented young lads that could challenge for an all Ireland but as of yet are unproven at senior and I could list many examples top under twenty one talents that never due absence top coaching made from that level to senior

Waterford have potential absolutely but to say better cork imo is incorrect overall when yes cork bit go v KK certainly this league and last two years done more than Waterford

O Connor imo equal o Neill
Fives equal Mcdonnell
Moran was great but imo legs are gone and lorcan much better
Kearney midfield imo Waterford I don't think have anyone as good him
Aidan Walsh full year hurling imo is something Waterford don't have in power pace and athletic ability with experience and youth together
Glesson imo outstanding but lehane just good and year or two ahead him

Waterford have imo no one near Seamus harnedy for combination work ethic leadership pace ball winning, scoring power and ruthless execution in one player rolled in to one with physical strength
Harnedy up there with bonner maher but better scorer and up there with fennelly KK in KK type hurler
Harnedy performance any game is worst just good in normally excellent
Two goals again club game other night averages least two point minimum any game cork but has ability bang in five points or goal and four etc
O mahony is good no where near him imo

Keoffe good keeper but Nash more proven and better all rounder
Horgan imo when poor is poor on form among best around as you said yourself
Cadogan is unreal with good ball

Farell and sullivan at very least equal to Dunford who yes Is brilliant
Brick is legend but imo not great centre forward or full and cooper if fit can do similar job to him
Of course brick better hurlers by far but job both now asked do cooper if fit imo better
Cormac Murphy for ucc cork all Ireland intermediate winning team and under twenty one all challenges last year and every league game this year been brilliant so as good as bourke who fine player

When it comes down to it imo cork more experienced players and game changers in kearney cadogan Walsh harnedy horgan lehane and lorcan etc that Waterford don't have plus last two meetings cork beaten Waterford last year and then two years before
I agree some your point but say Waterford better hurlers imo doesn't stand merit when teams compared overall imo
Certainly in future years if coaching is there Waterford could be serious team absolutely but jury is still out on mcgrath

Sorry now but I think you’ve got the red tinted glasses on there. You are bigging up some of those Cork players into being something more than what they are, good hurlers but not great hurlers as the man himself would say. In fact as far as previous Cork hurling teams have gone they are an average enough side. By going through both teams players comparing like with like is not doing anything for your argument, except highlighting that many of the players on both teams are at an equal enough level. Its not like your comparing our lads to a team of henry Shefflins or Tommy Walshes.

I think JBM has done a fantastic job with this group in getting within a whisker of an All Ireland and winning a Munster. But that’s the extent of it. Theres an expectation in Cork that they are a team ready to explode into life and start winning all Irelands, given yere history I can understand the expectations in Cork. But this group of players as a collective unit are good but over and above that I don’t think are anything special. Horgan and Lehane are 2 forwards I feel worth their salt, Walsh still has to prove himself imo. I don’t know why Tomwaterford keeps referring to Paudie O’Sullivan, imo hed struggle to get into the Waterford side not to mind Cork.
But to refer to last years championship meetings as a gague on how the championship meeting will go is not comparing like with like. Waterford have improved massively this year, last year they were a shambles. The players seem to be after buying into the system a lot more and some of the older ‘dead wood’ on the panel has been moved on. Management have opted to go with youth and the early indications are that it is paying off so far. Yes you say we have beaten nobody of note (didn’t realise Galway were suddenly ‘nobody’) but the performances have been good and at the end of the day you can only beat what is in front of you. Last years form we were struggling against the lesser teams even. This years championship will be very close between a lot of teams, including Cork and Waterford. One thing is for certain our lads will be travelling to Thurles with the belief that they are well capable of beating that Cork team.

HatchetMan7

Waterford didn't have, for varying reasons, Philip Mahoney, Brian O Halloran, Maurice Shanahan, Jamie Barron, Shane Bennett, Stephan Bennett and Tom Devine last year against Cork. Plus this Waterford team is very young and a year is a long time to physically develope for 18-21 compared to a 26/27 year old. This Waterford team look in much better shape physically and with alot more confidence than last year. Austin Gleeson, Tagdh de Burca, Jamie Barron, Colin Dunford, Shane Bennett, Stephan Bennett and Tom Devine are all 22 years old or younger. These players are much better players than they were last year and 4/5 will start against Cork this year and the other will see action.
Cork will still be favourites over Waterford come championship and rightly so mostly due to experience though not ability. The experience they gain this week against Tipp will be invaluable to them win, lose or draw.

TyrionPower

Deise189 wrote: »

Word from Tourin is that it's all in Fives head. Could be speculation but it'd be a shame it's true. I`ve heard there getting fairly fed up of him within the club

Oh ya that's because they all really know what there talking about up there.

It's clowns who have attitudes like that, who have big pot bellies that young lads injuries worse, putting pressure on them to play if one leg was hanging off, then turning around ah he doesn't want to do it for the club - that's why lads are better off moving to proper set ups

stumblingblock

Mountainlad wrote: »

Just to add, Tipp are missing Barrett, Bergin, Callinan, John McGrath and probably Bubbles but also Darren Gleeson. While it might not appear the biggest loss (don't think he's all star material despite the award) he's been in good form recently).

Despite being highly rated on club performances, Darragh Egan had a nightmare for Pat Horgans when he stepped in against Cork in the league quarters last year. Might not have much to do, but certainly not positive for Tipp.

Noel mcgrath will be out for a while too by the looks of it. Best wishes to him hope he has a speedy recovery

TyrionPower

Ropaire wrote: »

I love when lads start talking up individuals like one player makes a team. If you sent out fifteen Joe Deanes they wouldn't win anything, you need a balanced and well rounded team to win games and name checking lads is futile if they end up marooned in a one man inside forward line.
I believe that the sum of those Waterford players can make up alot more than its parts if they're coached right and sent out to play a system that suits them. Cork have flattered to deceive at times and poxed their way to an all ireland thanks to dubious limerick and kilkenny red cards in 2013, I don't know how we lost to them last year with a weaker team than we have now, prob more confidence than anything for both teams. JBM is some man for one man though, I'd kill to have him in charge of us, but honestly the only thing I'd be worried about is we're not scoring many goals at the minute, but neither are Cork. If we can get the Bennetts closer to goals with decent support that would change pretty quick though. Sure we might have a cut off each other in the league yet, but plenty of time between now and June to fine tune a bit. Roll on Sunday!

15 joe deanes... I wouldn't like to be playing against them... If we had 15 Eoin murphys maybe

thinkstoomuch1

Hurling man wrote: »

TTm u seem very confident in cork coaching ticket I don't think they have covered themselves in glory this year Murphy aside what new players have they discovered ur team who are supposedly way ahead of Waterford were cleaned out by tipp last year in all Ireland Semi final Aidan Walsh if I remember correctly was taken off and I think woodlock and McGrath got the better of midfield battle. Mark Ellis is a good centre back and without him cork seem to struggle but they don't seem to have any alternative I think Jamie Barron is at least as good as Kearney may even have more hurling. The cork full back line now granted have lost one of there best through a very serious injury but Cahallane seems to be playing most games I can't remember his last good one he was the worst player on the field v Limerick last year. One of your best players has opted for football only this year. Anthony Nash who you claim is a way better all round keeper then o Keefe is not even the best keeper in cork. All I can say is roll on June 7

I was debating not in any way arrogance way but don't forget why I debated in we had Waterford poster claiming Waterford man to man better than cork player wise

To say Nash isn't best in cork is biggest pile nonsense I ever heard
Who is better
Patrick Collins has huge potential and imo will be one greats but done nothing like Nash yet
When Waterford keeper has harrowed what Nash has ploughed then I'll belive it
Good keeper but Nash is great keeper

Again some have huge potential but there's nothing proven their better
When you say one our best defenders left for football in cadogan imo diluted thus argument way off in cadogan was never bar one game man match v tipp a full back and last year in 2012 had poor year

While he stood out for Douglas in awful mediocre cork club championship many in cork don't rate him
Ellis has grown to become better
Cork maim problems I always critsed jbm since day one with out any red tainted glasses, I call it as is I's appalling lack fixing he's term of full back and said v tipp this and complex playing lads out position v tipp he had take blame for reasons cork awful v tipp


However jbm has much better record unproven mcgrath who bar division two a quote dismal league is unproven yet at elite level
Walsh was taken off but don't forget he was duel player and said many times after he touvj was way off v tipp
Cahalane was brilliant against waterford last year was actually injured v limerick and played out position at half back v tipp

He imo could do a job at full but struggling injury all year
Waterford have issues at full back also
To say barron has better hurling than kearney, kearney done it white heat championship time and again for cork
Barron imo hasn't but can be either good or bad

The cork coaching ticket agree lot prove v KK or tipp elite teams but nothing suggest can't beat other teams as they have under jbm

Cork were cleaned out by tipp yes but didn't cork destroy Waterford did they or did they not
I don't think cork will beat Waterford hugely in Joyce out and cahalane injury worries but I see nothing yer say Waterford are proven
They remind me cork football team last year lots young talent and being slightly over hyper within but we all know how cork football turned out

I don't think Waterford can use the excuse we loose to tipp we have learned a lot in to beat good top four teams they must performance v them
With so many out for tipp imo Waterford have to win in if they don't in knowlan park questions and imo doubts come in to play who have ye actually beaten in division two top four wise
Before limerick are mentioned imo said this all year despite their talk they are imo they are a poorly coached one dimensional very predictable team that offaly who are awful beat so that tells it own story

Galway were beaten but we all know Galway are hardly elite with coach they have outgrown
Waterford done well yes but the talk there actually better than cork improving is bit off in there a young team could be great few years but nothing big games proven yet

Cork imo I don't think are going win all Ireland unless full back is solved but Waterford are no where near KK or tipp on the field or off it at present
Let's not get carried away
Cork have the last two years showed have problems but deserves to be rated much higher than Waterford based on performance
People talk about red card v KK
At end day a tired KK we still beat something Waterford could not actually do
As for the red cards people seem forget cork would beaten limerick two years ago only for horgan sending off
Tipperary is a real test Sunday but they have injury worries
Waterford have no excuse not to perform in this ist real test all year them against top team

TyrionPower

This is waterfords first test, we have played no one yet (Limerick not interested and Galway appalling)

Some players going well for us have been around a few years and were totally unproven up to now.

We are still an unknown quantity
Comparing Barron to Kearney is nonsense.
Our lads still have a lot to prove and the real hurling is a few weeks away

Tipp and Dublin will be the league final

deiseach

Jeez, I know Tipp are another step up but had we been told at the start of the year that we'd be swatting aside Wexford and Galway you wouldn't be able to move safely for all the cartwheels being performed. Let's not be borrowing trouble, okay?

Mountainlad

In fairness wed a big injury list the day v Kilkenny too. And if they were tired v us, they were hardly fresher a game later with 14 men.

Anyway, I agree on Cadogan, Cahalane and JBM is a very good manager. Hes actually working with no underage success there. I think age profile has a lot to do with where they are now, lot of players in their prime. That's fine though, something Cody does a lot just with better players.

To be fair though, you did try and make the point earlier in the year that having lost to inter county opposition in those 4 meaningless challenge games and then Limerick in the Waterford crystal that we were really struggling against inter county opposition and all the trouble was still there. Since then we have drawn wtih Clare and Tipp, beaten Tipp and in competitive games drawn with Limerick beaten Wexford and Galway and annihilated the other two teams we've had to play. We actually beat those last two comfortably and still somehow managed to play like Donegal according to the media, scoring 0-22 points, a statement which has me baffled.

Anyway, I'd be very disappointed if anyone got anything easy off us the way they did last year. And the replacement of Frank Flannery and William Maher and the outgoing fitness coach doesn't appear to have been a negative move so far.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

In fairness wed a big injury list the day v Kilkenny too. And if they were tired v us, they were hardly fresher a game later with 14 men.

Anyway, I agree on Cadogan, Cahalane and JBM is a very good manager. Hes actually working with no underage success there. I think age profile has a lot to do with where they are now, lot of players in their prime. That's fine though, something Cody does a lot just with better players.

To be fair though, you did try and make the point earlier in the year that having lost to inter county opposition in those 4 meaningless challenge games and then Limerick in the Waterford crystal that we were really struggling against inter county opposition and all the trouble was still there. Since then we have drawn wtih Clare and Tipp, beaten Tipp and in competitive games drawn with Limerick beaten Wexford and Galway and annihilated the other two teams we've had to play. We actually beat those last two comfortably and still somehow managed to play like Donegal according to the media, scoring 0-22 points, a statement which has me baffled.

Anyway, I'd be very disappointed if anyone got anything easy off us the way they did last year. And the replacement of Frank Flannery and William Maher and the outgoing fitness coach doesn't appear to have been a negative move so far.

Very valid points I agree with certainly they have improved
And as I said fact showed desire hunger destroy poor teams is good as cork last year showed none that

Point is though people's view closed gap cork well know Sunday as beaten imo top six teams in league
Limerick I'd forget bout as there imo awful when play sweeper system and this has shown time and again and tj Ryan imo poor manager senior
Galway look take it pinch salt
Galway play limerick challenge Saturday night challenge
Hardly a challenge set pulse racing imo

Point is yr donr well what ye had do and better but division two been awful be honest
No team since here in twenty years won all Ireland
Waterford lot questions be answered
I understand the excitement but don't get carried away as do that and imo set themselves up for disappointment
Sunday good test
Huge difference in tipp and others division two once tipp are interested in turning up

Psychedelic

Noel Connors: Waterford are thriving under McGrath
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2015/0415/694235-waterford/

redlead

TyrionPower wrote: »

This is waterfords first test, we have played no one yet (Limerick not interested and Galway appalling)

l

You'd wonder when Waterford are going to get some credit. If we beat Tipp we'll be told it was because of all their injuries. Galway was going to be our first test until we hammered them. Wexford knocked Waterford and Clare out of the championship last year. Galway had two wins in 1a this year. We have to be doing something right; especially when you look at the manner in which we beat these teams. Even Limerick only got a draw because of two ridiculous penalties. I'm not saying we are all Ireland material but credit where it's due.

TGV

I agree with you but I guess we need to win something for other counties to take notice. Also really lazy reporting today almost the exact article in all three papers.

blue note

redlead wrote: »

You'd wonder when Waterford are going to get some credit. If we beat Tipp we'll be told it was because of all their injuries. Galway was going to be our first test until we hammered them. Wexford knocked Waterford and Clare out of the championship last year. Galway had two wins in 1a this year. We have to be doing something right; especially when you look at the manner in which we beat these teams. Even Limerick only got a draw because of two ridiculous penalties. I'm not saying we are all Ireland material but credit where it's due.

I think we’re getting plenty of credit now. The Cork game is viewed as a 50/50 by lots of people, the Tipp game not far off going by what people are saying. Lots of people still saying we should lose both too, that that’s fair enough, there are arguments to be made both ways.

And if I was an outsider looking in I’d definitely want Waterford to do a lot more before I think they’ve really stepped up a notch. In Div 2 3 of our defeats were against very weak opposition. Wexford weren’t great when we played them and neither were Limerick and whatever about the bad decisions, we still didn’t win that day. Galway were completely flat against us too.

Now obviously there are counter arguments to all of that and there’s truth to them too, but while we should get some credit for the way Limerick, Wexford and Galway played against us, it’s just as likely that they actually were terrible on the day. People (ourselves included) made similar arguments about Wexford last year after their wins against Clare / ourselves and the draw against Dublin the year before, but the doubters now look to have been as close to the truth. Wexford did improve, but ourselves and Clare were terrible on the day against them.

My personal opinion is that we have actually taken a leap forward this year and that the game against Cork will be extremely difficult to call. But I wouldn’t think anyone was crazy for being sceptical about it.

Fireball07

In my view, I think Waterford are definitely going in the right direction. In hindsight, our draw against ye was probably our most impressive result... we had none of our best forwards and ye have turned out to be a strong side particularly defensively. It was probably ye're worst result so far but I suppose it was the first game and the wins against Wexford and Galway were impressive.

Now people probably know I don't rate this current Galway side very highly and Wexford are a bit hit-and-miss but if you are definitely better than those sides, then you have definitely come on from last year.


I'd give ye a good chance against Cork. Cork are probably the better team on paper, they have some nice forwards but Waterford do have a very strong defence and if you limit space for the likes of Cadogan & Lehane, they won't thrive. De Búrca is a fine player- Gleeson, Mahony, both Fives and obviously Connors are all very good backs, and there is a well-structured defence in general. One thing though is making sure the midfield do cover, it was noticeable against Limerick that GOM scored 0-5 from play just by dropping deep... De Burca dominated aerially but he played deep and didn't follow GOM who was unmarked. If someone like Lehane or Coughlan or someone were to get that space, they could do damage too.


It has been asked here- how will Waterford fare if they do go behind? But I think it is good that a tactic has been put in place, I don't think ye expect to win an All-Ireland but in a one-off game, I don't see why ye should fear anyone. In terms of forwards, the league is totally different from the Championship, moreso than anything else... the intensity is higher and do ye have enough forwards who can win their own ball and take a score at the highest level? Ye have a few for sure, but do you have enough? They're a young team and we'll see in time.



Waterford did draw with Cork last year... I know they possibly took them by surprise to some extent and were hammered in a replay but it just shows what is possible in a one-off game. Waterford are almost certainly better than last year, by a decent extent I would say. Cork are possibly better too but the league game against KK this year & the Tipp semi-final last year were huge disappointments and there are question marks over them too.

TyrionPower

redlead wrote: »

You'd wonder when Waterford are going to get some credit. If we beat Tipp we'll be told it was because of all their injuries. Galway was going to be our first test until we hammered them. Wexford knocked Waterford and Clare out of the championship last year. Galway had two wins in 1a this year. We have to be doing something right; especially when you look at the manner in which we beat these teams. Even Limerick only got a draw because of two ridiculous penalties. I'm not saying we are all Ireland material but credit where it's due.

It's the league - some of these games were in February
Harsh experience has thought me to reserve judgement until it gets serious

KevIRL

Meh feck getting credit from people. Its the same the way some folk obsess about these rankings that papers publish from time to time. All that really matters is titles when its all said and done

stumblingblock

Minor footballers beaten 2-15 to 1-07

deiseach

I wouldn't crave credit from those outside the county. It would be nice though if people within the county eased up on the "we've won nottin' yet" palaver. It's true but it isn't particularly helpful. I remember Frankie Walsh saying on Breaking Ball after the 2002 Munster championship win that it would mean nothing if we didn't add the All-Ireland. I don't think he meant it in such a blunt fashion. He can't have done because it did mean a lot as did each trophy that came after it, and unless we get absolutely murdered by Tipp on Sunday then our 2015 League campaign will have meant a lot to me.

rebel girl 15

Right lads and ladies, can we please use the report post button for any post that you deem to be inappropriate. Moderators don't read every comment, so we rely on posters to report posts they think are inappropriate. So instead of replying to such posts, which can cause huge hassle, report them so we can deal with them

PTH2009

stumblingblock wrote: »

Minor footballers beaten 2-15 to 1-07

I thought this was a very good Waterford team ??. Looks like we will have to play Kerry or cork to get to a Munster final

I'd we get a bad beating Sunday vs tipp it could define our season. It's expected cork will win the other semi so there confidence will be high come 7th June. Waterford 2015 is a way better organised team than Waterford 2014. Hopefully last year was just a blip and we at least get to an all Ireland quarter final ( beat cork and were in the qfs , Lose and it's a game against a leinster team and then another game to get there). I'd only fear we mite get kilkenny, Dublin or galway if were in the qualifiers.

Mountainlad

PTH2009 wrote: »

I thought this was a very good Waterford team ??. Looks like we will have to play Kerry or cork to get to a Munster final

I'd we get a bad beating Sunday vs tipp it could define our season. It's expected cork will win the other semi so there confidence will be high come 7th June. Waterford 2015 is a way better organised team than Waterford 2014. Hopefully last year was just a blip and we at least get to an all Ireland quarter final ( beat cork and were in the qfs , Lose and it's a game against a leinster team and then another game to get there). I'd only fear we mite get kilkenny, Dublin or galway if were in the qualifiers.

Minors have to play Limerick, Clare and Tipp again if they are to make a Munster Final.

archieknox

Best comment I heard about the game on Sunday was today when talking to a Tipp supporter. I asked him how he thought they would do on Sunday and his reply was(take into account he didn't know I was from Waterford)"Ah we'll do alright sure at the end of the day its only Waterford" They always have that arrogance!!

Deskjockey

Deise Vu wrote: »

Unfortunately Tipp have withdrawn their appeal to Seamus Callinan's red card. That would have been a real test for our system and Barry Coughlan in particular.

You have your wish...

@ShaneSaint: Seamus Callanan has won his appeal against a red card and will be available to play against @Waterford on Sunday.

Balls

PTH2009

Deskjockey wrote: »

You have your wish...

@ShaneSaint: Seamus Callanan has won his appeal against a red card and will be available to play against @Waterford on Sunday.

Balls

at least it will give our back line a test. heard that maurice shan is starting with stephen bennett doing the sub role. Hopefully it wont be a bad sunday

Deskjockey

PTH2009 wrote: »

at least it will give our back line a test. heard that maurice shan is starting with stephen bennett doing the sub role. Hopefully it wont be a bad sunday

Maurice has made a good difference coming in the last few days, hopefully he will show that he is worth the starting spot

Deise_2012

Deskjockey wrote: »

You have your wish...

@ShaneSaint: Seamus Callanan has won his appeal against a red card and will be available to play against @Waterford on Sunday.

Balls

some joke. Brick or Shane O'Sullivan didn't have a chance in hell last year after appealing

Waternut

I'm actually happy Callanan is playing, should be a good test for our back line. What really peeves me off is that he got off because of who he is. Appeals system is an absolute joke. What you do doesn't matter, its who you are...