Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

PTH2009

stumblingblock wrote: »

Weldone to kerry hurlers on being promoted to 1b. Antrim deserve to go down i remember thinking after the waterford game what good is skin ryan been doing with them. Hes been travelling 5 or 600k trips up and down 3 or 4 times a week the past 4 years but they actually seem to have regressed under his reign. He wont pick some of their best players either. Dont how hes getting away with it. even his interviews he seems to admit he dosent know what hes doing. Time to give skin his p45 i think

i cant see them getting past the group stages of the leinster championship

HatchetMan7

Ropaire wrote: »

Ya I'd agree, we took them apart in the first game last year for fifty minutes and should have kept attacking. We were well able for them then but hamstrung ourselves going overly negative. Our fifteen this year are prob stronger than last year too, have Cork improved much since?

Even though i'm not necessarily against the defensive system and think Derek Mcgrath should be allowed play the system he wants, in the long term we should definitely become more and more attacking as the year goes on. We have a talented panel of players with alot of options up front. We seem to be about a year ahead in regards team development than alot of people thought myself included. I would love to see us get the most out of players like Stephan Bennett and that's not going to happen if he's in the full forward line on his own.

tomwaterford

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Even though i'm not necessarily against the defensive system and think Derek Mcgrath should be allowed play the system he wants, in the long term we should definitely become more and more attacking as the year goes on. We have a talented panel of players with alot of options up front. We seem to be about a year ahead in regards team development than alot of people thought myself included. I would love to see us get the most out of players like Stephan Bennett and that's not going to happen if he's in the full forward line on his own.

The only thing with the defensive thing...what happens if we come againest a team who fly outta the blocks and find ourself like 1-04 to no score??

HatchetMan7

tomwaterford wrote: »

The only thing with the defensive thing...what happens if we come againest a team who fly outta the blocks and find ourself like 1-04 to no score??

You'd have to change and push more players forward. But what happens if we go toe to toe from the beginning and find ourselves 1-04 down. At this point is it too late to go back and play more defensive game, keep the score down and try and cut into the lead. I think go defensive at the start and then adapt as the game goes on. If we can't change during a game then we'll eventually be beaten by the top teams.

deiseach

It's great we're playing Tipp at this stage. If ever there was a group who could identify weaknesses in a system and hammer away at them, it's that shower of hoors.

Deise Vu

deiseach wrote: »

It's great we're playing Tipp at this stage. If ever there was a group who could identify weaknesses in a system and hammer away at them, it's that shower of hoors.

Unfortunately Tipp have withdrawn their appeal to Seamus Callinan's red card. That would have been a real test for our system and Barry Coughlan in particular.

PTH2009

Deise Vu wrote: »

Unfortunately Tipp have withdrawn their appeal to Seamus Callinan's red card. That would have been a real test for our system and Barry Coughlan in particular.

Although im really never positive I have a feeling we will get badly found out Sunday I hope im wrong but we mite hit a bump sunday. Wexford and galway were useless and Tipperary will be another level

The price tag of 15 Euro is not bad for 2 games and hopefully I get to go Sunday

TGV

Its only a game and it's early in the year. If we win great, if not we move on. Enjoy it for what it is and like most on here say it is an opportunity to test our competitiveness and our bench.

skaface

Should be a good crowd Sunday.
Are Tg4 showing the two semi finals on Sunday??

HatchetMan7

skaface wrote: »

Should be a good crowd Sunday.
Are Tg4 showing the two semi finals on Sunday??

TG4 showing both games as far as i know. I wonder will Nolan Park be full? It should be good atmosphere if it is. 24000 is capacity i think.

HatchetMan7

Kieran Bergan suffered broken bone in his hand in club game at the weekend and Cathal Barrett is doubtful with shoulder injury suffered in training camp in Spain no less. Thats 3 big losses to Tipp. Wonder what the bookies make of that?

tomwaterford

Is it centra sells tickets

archieknox

tomwaterford wrote: »

Is it centra sells tickets

As far as I know they are. €15 is great value in fairness.
With Bergin,Callanan and Barrett missing I think we'll never get a better chance of beating Tipp. Callahan is a huge loss for them so surely we must be positive about getting a result on Sunday. For the first time in a longtime I am looking forward with a bit of confidence to Sunday, we haven't anything to fear.

Mountainlad

John McGrath out, and Bubbles is a doubt.

blue note

Will they be able to field? Sounds like they're struggling for numbers. Might get a walkover.

deiseach

I'm in two minds about the importance of this game. On the one hand I didn't expect us to get promoted, let alone to reach the semi-final, so it's all gravy. On the other hand we're not so flush with success that we can afford to be blasé about League success. I guess I'll find out at 4pm on Sunday.

Cake Man

Any word from our camp? Injuries or any players back from injury?

archieknox

Cake Man wrote: »

Any word from our camp? Injuries or any players back from injury?

All fit bar Darragh Fives and Stephen Daniels.

Deise189

archieknox wrote: »

All fit bar Darragh Fives and Stephen Daniels.

Word from Tourin is that it's all in Fives head. Could be speculation but it'd be a shame it's true. I`ve heard there getting fairly fed up of him within the club

tomwaterford

Anyone have the list of centra shops doing the tickets...my local was not very helpful

Mountainlad

Just to add, Tipp are missing Barrett, Bergin, Callinan, John McGrath and probably Bubbles but also Darren Gleeson. While it might not appear the biggest loss (don't think he's all star material despite the award) he's been in good form recently).

Despite being highly rated on club performances, Darragh Egan had a nightmare for Pat Horgans when he stepped in against Cork in the league quarters last year. Might not have much to do, but certainly not positive for Tipp.

PTH2009

Nowlan park has not been the happiest places for us the last few years . The last time we won there was in 2007 vs tipp

Punt Road

New rules coming in on Sunday including the advantage and 1:1 penalty.
As regards the advantage ....just read Wille "Bat" Barrett's comments on the Examiner website. He mentions how the free in hurling is much more valuable than in football which is an interesting mindset regarding this rule. He states that if he gives the free in the oppositions half then there is an excellent chance that the free will be scored. So following that logic and having that thought process in the back of the his head, the team would not really have gained an advantage if they don't score.

Feasible scenario A....
2 men isolated on the 21 under a dropping ball. Full forward is clearly fouled and both men fall to the floor. Within the 5 second window the speedy forward gets up and has a free shot for a point but misses. The article says that the ref can call back play if the "fouled player has not gained from the infringement". Has your advantage been used up? He did have a free shot right? However following Willies thinking the referee knows that the free would have been converted so at a minimum he think a point is the least the attacking team should get...

Dangerous stuff....

On another note role on Sunday. Lets have a cut.

thinkstoomuch1

tomwaterford wrote: »

I honestly rate the waterford players on average as good as if not better than the cork team (outside of pat Horgan and paudi Sullivan) I'm not trying to wind up people or anything...but if waterford went out and went toe to toe with cork they could beat them....that tipp team are a different prospect though....some serious talent there!!

What exactly have Waterford done under mcgrath to give such optimistic chances v Cork
Yes credit due he got promoted and be fair put up high scores against poor teams other didn't do

But bar wexford imo ye haven't really played a serious team and imo was Always chance ye get something v limerick in sweeper system limerick can't handle and don't forget offaly actually beat them

Cork have problems at full back namely like Waterford
If you want to name your team you think Waterford will name for starting championship one to fifteen I'll happily debate with a counter argument cork likely starting fifteen and I think overall cork have more better hurlers at present and proven ones and while against KK this world still have to convince imo nothing suggest Waterford have better than cork
Last year was bit false dawn cork totally underestimated Waterford and nearly paid the price plus dualism shambles didn't help but cork two weeks later destroyed Waterford in no uncertain terms
Cork in the last two years have become better at beating sweeper system where there was a time under jbm they couldn't

thinkstoomuch1

The Shop outlets selling tickets locally are:



Caulfields Super Valu / Hyper Market - Morgan Street, Waterford City

Quish's Super Value - Tramore

Garvey's Super Value - Main Street, Dungarvan

Garvey's Coolagh Service Station - Abbeyside - Dungarvan

Kelleher's Super Valu - Cappoquin

Centra - Fermoy.

tomwaterford

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

What exactly have Waterford done under mcgrath to give such optimistic chances v Cork
Yes credit due he got promoted and be fair put up high scores against poor teams other didn't do

But bar wexford imo ye haven't really played a serious team and imo was Always chance ye get something v limerick in sweeper system limerick can't handle and don't forget offaly actually beat them

Cork have problems at full back namely like Waterford
If you want to name your team you think Waterford will name for starting championship one to fifteen I'll happily debate with a counter argument cork likely starting fifteen and I think overall cork have more better hurlers at present and proven ones and while against KK this world still have to convince imo nothing suggest Waterford have better than cork
Last year was bit false dawn cork totally underestimated Waterford and nearly paid the price plus dualism shambles didn't help but cork two weeks later destroyed Waterford in no uncertain terms
Cork in the last two years have become better at beating sweeper system where there was a time under jbm they couldn't

Waterford have done fcuk all under McGrath???
No one says they have!!
It just IMO there is very few in cork team outside of pat Horgan and maybe paudi Sullivan who are head and shoulders better than there Waterford counterparts....there is the makings of a serious team here for Waterford


Who should in 3-4 years be targeting all Ireland's

As it stands cork should beat them come June....but I think that cork team is masking a lot of flaws....

There is no doubt who is rather have over a team jbm....but that's not going to happen!!

I don't mean it as a disservice/to run cork down....but this Waterford team...while most likely won't beat tipp Sunday are a great prospect

Though I nearly forgot Conor Lehane....another super talent...

Hurling man

Lads on the Darragh fives one. For someone from his own club to say it's inbhis head is an absolute farce. I really doubt that someone would be from Toureen and doubting this fella. He is one of the unluckiest players Waterford have had in the last number of years and I think when he gets a run in the team he will prove that he is real deal. I know for a fact that her Cunningham of Ucc and now Dublin manager would rate him as one of the best players he's had in Ucc. He was centre back on there two Fitzgibbon teams that won it and missed out through injury last year when wit won it.

Here's hoping Darragh makes a swift recovery and comes back to prove all the begrudgers wrong

Mountainlad

Mountainlad wrote: »

Just to add, Tipp are missing Barrett, Bergin, Callinan, John McGrath and probably Bubbles but also Darren Gleeson. While it might not appear the biggest loss (don't think he's all star material despite the award) he's been in good form recently).

Despite being highly rated on club performances, Darragh Egan had a nightmare for Pat Horgans when he stepped in against Cork in the league quarters last year. Might not have much to do, but certainly not positive for Tipp.

The latest: Darren Gleeson played the weekend. Strange goings on in Tipp, players being ruled out for a long team and then playing the following weekend. I heard he was supposed to be out for 6 weeks just before we played Wexford

Bubbles also expected to play the weekend.

thinkstoomuch1

tomwaterford wrote: »

Waterford have done fcuk all under McGrath???
No one says they have!!
It just IMO there is very few in cork team outside of pat Horgan and maybe paudi Sullivan who are head and shoulders better than there Waterford counterparts....there is the makings of a serious team here for Waterford


Who should in 3-4 years be targeting all Ireland's

As it stands cork should beat them come June....but I think that cork team is masking a lot of flaws....

There is no doubt who is rather have over a team jbm....but that's not going to happen!!

I don't mean it as a disservice/to run cork down....but this Waterford team...while most likely won't beat tipp Sunday are a great prospect

Though I nearly forgot Conor Lehane....another super talent...

I agree Waterford have talented young lads that could challenge for an all Ireland but as of yet are unproven at senior and I could list many examples top under twenty one talents that never due absence top coaching made from that level to senior

Waterford have potential absolutely but to say better cork imo is incorrect overall when yes cork bit go v KK certainly this league and last two years done more than Waterford

O Connor imo equal o Neill
Fives equal Mcdonnell
Moran was great but imo legs are gone and lorcan much better
Kearney midfield imo Waterford I don't think have anyone as good him
Aidan Walsh full year hurling imo is something Waterford don't have in power pace and athletic ability with experience and youth together
Glesson imo outstanding but lehane just good and year or two ahead him

Waterford have imo no one near Seamus harnedy for combination work ethic leadership pace ball winning, scoring power and ruthless execution in one player rolled in to one with physical strength
Harnedy up there with bonner maher but better scorer and up there with fennelly KK in KK type hurler
Harnedy performance any game is worst just good in normally excellent
Two goals again club game other night averages least two point minimum any game cork but has ability bang in five points or goal and four etc
O mahony is good no where near him imo

Keoffe good keeper but Nash more proven and better all rounder
Horgan imo when poor is poor on form among best around as you said yourself
Cadogan is unreal with good ball

Farell and sullivan at very least equal to Dunford who yes Is brilliant
Brick is legend but imo not great centre forward or full and cooper if fit can do similar job to him
Of course brick better hurlers by far but job both now asked do cooper if fit imo better
Cormac Murphy for ucc cork all Ireland intermediate winning team and under twenty one all challenges last year and every league game this year been brilliant so as good as bourke who fine player

When it comes down to it imo cork more experienced players and game changers in kearney cadogan Walsh harnedy horgan lehane and lorcan etc that Waterford don't have plus last two meetings cork beaten Waterford last year and then two years before
I agree some your point but say Waterford better hurlers imo doesn't stand merit when teams compared overall imo
Certainly in future years if coaching is there Waterford could be serious team absolutely but jury is still out on mcgrath

Mountainlad

In fairness 2012 is totally irrelevant to this years contest. Waterford had the winning of that game until Shane Walsh was forced off, and then had to bring on Eoin McGrath and Shane Casey where Cork had better options. We've much better option off the bench this year.

I think TTM while you've made a fair point re a few players, you are stretching it with some of them to suit the argument. For example, Tadhg Bourke was brilliant in every game he played in last year at Senior inter county. Hes a year older now and looks even better. Cormac Murphy is unproven unquestionably, a word your using a lot but apparently he's Bourke's equal despite not having played a championship game yet?

Similarly, Luke O Farrell has had the chance to prove himself and has failed to do so in Senior championship. I know he missed last year, and he may come good yet but Dunford has achieved more already at a younger age. Don't see how McLoughlin is better than Moran, though Moran is inconsistent in my eyes.

I think O'Neill is a very good corner back, would be asking a few questions of him at times in the last few years though but that seems to be mainly on account of being out of position. Daniel Kearney is the kind of player that fits the experience argument, but as a hurler I'm not sure he's beyond a lot of our midfield options just maybe more physical development and in his prime where our lads would be younger. Will be interested to see that battle.

Gleeson is more comparable to Aidan Walsh and again Walsh has the years at inter county and physique to be further down the line, but Gleeson is a better hurler. I'd compare O'Halloran and Lehane. O'Halloran is a big talent, and has been unlucky to miss a few years. I do think Lehane is special though and if he can consistently get it together for a whole year in championship he can prove to be the best forward in the Country for that year.

Ultimately, we're in a much better place than last year and I think having a fully fit squad and options are a big contributing factor. The game v Cork is still over a month a way. I see no reason to believe anything other than that game being a tight battle and I would say luck and a bit of class on either side will prove the decisive factor as often is the case with these two teams.