Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

stumblingblock

Sure isn’t it a pity Nicky English, Eoin Kelly and Larry Corbett are no longer in their hay-day aswell. Theyd really bury us on Sunday, shur that’s what we need. Nothing like a good old annihilation. It might put McGrath and his chronies back in their box

archieknox

Waternut wrote: »

I'm actually happy Callanan is playing, should be a good test for our back line. What really peeves me off is that he got off because of who he is. Appeals system is an absolute joke. What you do doesn't matter, its who you are...

Exactly. Now there can't be any excuses when we beat them on Sunday.

TGV

Tipp have had a hard week this week. I wish Noel McGrath all the best for the future. Don't be surprised if Tipp try win the league for this guy. I would expect a very motivated team on Sunday and Waterford should be prepared for this.

glued

Waternut wrote: »

I'm actually happy Callanan is playing, should be a good test for our back line. What really peeves me off is that he got off because of who he is. Appeals system is an absolute joke. What you do doesn't matter, its who you are...

It's the correct call that he's allowed to play. His sending off was a complete joke.

deiseach

One law for the Big Three, another law for the rest of us. Referees must wonder why they bother.

Deise_2012

glued wrote: »

It's the correct call that he's allowed to play. His sending off was a complete joke.

No no... if you saw Shane O' Sullivans sending off last year, now that was a complete joke. Callanan did the exact same as Brick did v Dublin and he had no chance of successfully appealing it, Kilkenny Cork and Tipp have different treatment in this appeals system

Waternut

Deise_2012 wrote: »

No no... if you saw Shane O' Sullivans sending off last year, now that was a complete joke. Callanan did the exact same as Brick did v Dublin and he had no chance of successfully appealing it, Kilkenny Cork and Tipp have different treatment in this appeals system

Correct. I'm not debating whether he should have been sent off or not and I don't think he should have been sent off but neither should Brick and certainly not O'Sullivan. They hadn't their cards overturned.. You can see the frustration for so called weaker teams..

TyrionPower

Shane O'Sullivans sending off last year as a joke.
But Callanans was a total and utter disgrace, no way that red should have stood, it is the right decision that he is allowed to play, nothing to do with the big three (doesn't exist anymore anyway - only the big one now) I am glad it got overturned as it shows there is some common sense out there in whoever is looking at these decisions.

deiseach

TyrionPower wrote: »

Shane O'Sullivans sending off last year as a joke.
But Callanans was a total and utter disgrace, no way that red should have stood, it is the right decision that he is allowed to play, nothing to do with the big three (doesn't exist anymore anyway - only the big one now) I am glad it got overturned as it shows there is some common sense out there in whoever is looking at these decisions.

There is a Big Three, and there is a different set of rules for them. It's all very well saying common sense should apply, but that gives those in authority wriggle room to allow those with the right stuff (i.e. you're one of the Big Three) off the hook while the savages from the other counties who are only pretending to be hurlers get screwed over. Combine this decision with the noise and fury that greeted the red cards for Henry Shefflin and Pat Horgan and how that noise and fury got them off, and it's hard not to be dispirited at the way our world works.

Mehapoy

deiseach wrote: »

There is a Big Three, and there is a different set of rules for them. It's all very well saying common sense should apply, but that gives those in authority wriggle room to allow those with the right stuff (i.e. you're one of the Big Three) off the hook while the savages from the other counties who are only pretending to be hurlers get screwed over. Combine this decision with the noise and fury that greeted the red cards for Henry Shefflin and Pat Horgan and how that noise and fury got them off, and it's hard not to be dispirited at the way our world works.

I'd agree totally with that, once you start undermining the referees decision on the day with retrospective 'justice' then you're on a very sloppy slope, a big player gets sent off and it starts on the Sunday game, former team mates pleading sure he's not a dirty player, never drew a dirty stroke etc. etc. that gets reported in the paper and by Wednesday the referee is made to look a fool as 'commonsense' prevails and the red card is rescinded and the referee vilified.
As you say it allows wriggle room for back room deals to be done, which invariably favour the big counties with influence, especially ones with long serving secretaries!
Sometimes I don't know how the GAA will continue to get referees to do the job as they seem to undermine them at every opportunity, no wonder there such a shortage of referees in some counties...

3ships

Then you had Brian O Sullivan's trail by tv last year in which the Sunday Game panel verdict was 'ah shur it's nothing really, Des'. It warranted a 2 game ban which is twice the going rate. This in effect is was a summer ending ban and the lad didn't return this year, if it just put him off playing inter county I'm not surprised. I think BOS could have livened up our attack against Wexford last year btw. Would a more high profile player be denied in such a way.

I feel aggrieved now that there seems to be justice only for those that sell tickets. Why the 11th hour reprieve. I'm not bothered about Callahan playing or not but why the endless appeals process, why drag it out, the door is open for all kinds of scenarios. Could Waterford do a Mary I on it and appeal against the eligibility of the player post facto. The CCC the CAC the DRC the UFC Where does it all end, why do committees have so much sway.

If Callahan's red card was harsh let the ref recind it within 48 hours and move on.

deiseach

Getting back to more mundane matters, anyone care to recommend one of the stands in Nowlan Park for comfort/view/cover/access or is it six-a-one...?

PTH2009

deiseach wrote: »

Getting back to more mundane matters, anyone care to recommend one of the stands in Nowlan Park for comfort/view/cover/access or is it six-a-one...?

I'm in paddy grace stand (ardan ar gas) and the view is OK the top half is covered. Make sure u go in early to get a decent seat cork will bring a big support.

I was never in the stand behind the goal

The smaller stand is OK I'd imagine the covered bit is for vips.

Deise_2012

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'm in paddy grace stand (ardan ar gas) and the view is OK the top half is covered. Make sure u go in early to get a decent seat cork will bring a big support.

I was never in the stand behind the goal

The smaller stand is OK I'd imagine the covered bit is for vips.

*Buys ticket opposite to paddy grace stand

TyrionPower

deiseach wrote: »

There is a Big Three, and there is a different set of rules for them. It's all very well saying common sense should apply, but that gives those in authority wriggle room to allow those with the right stuff (i.e. you're one of the Big Three) off the hook while the savages from the other counties who are only pretending to be hurlers get screwed over. Combine this decision with the noise and fury that greeted the red cards for Henry Shefflin and Pat Horgan and how that noise and fury got them off, and it's hard not to be dispirited at the way our world works.

There is not a big there that's nonsense. If you look hard enough for an excuse you will find it and I think what you are saying is pathetic really. They aren't the successful because of refs or bending rules. I take this as a postive that some of these stupid sendings off in hurling are coming to an end - Sheflin, horgan, Callanan should not have been sent off end of, no matter where they are from.
It is my opinion that no one should be sent off in hurling unless there is a blatant striking action with the Hurley, in hurling a free is punishment enough for pulling and dragging because you can now score from over 100 yards - If a player repeatedly does it he will be out on the line with the rest of us before long as he will be dropped.
Hurling is not littered with foul play - but too many games have been destroyed lately by not finishing 15 V 15.

deiseach

I'll be more precise. I'm not saying that the Big Three are successful because the rules are rigged in their favour. That would be silly. I'm saying that when it comes to successful appeals, the rules are different for them. You may think Shefflin et al should not have received red cards no matter where you are from, but I'm amazed it doesn't bother you that the suspensions only seem to stick when you come from places like Waterford.

dcrosskid

deiseach wrote: »

I'll be more precise. I'm not saying that the Big Three are successful because the rules are rigged in their favour. That would be silly. I'm saying that when it comes to successful appeals, the rules are different for them. You may think Shefflin et al should not have received red cards no matter where you are from, but I'm amazed it doesn't bother you that the suspensions only seem to stick when you come from places like Waterford.

I can name 3 off the top of my head where Tipp can have grievances with suspensions being upheld or upgraded from a yellow to a red. You only remember your own so drop the whole country is against us stuff... If Waterford win Sunday it won't matter who was playing for Tipp.

deiseach

dcrosskid wrote: »

I can name 3 off the top of my head where Tipp can have grievances with suspensions being upheld or upgraded from a yellow to a red. You only remember your own so drop the whole country is against us stuff... If Waterford win Sunday it won't matter who was playing for Tipp.

The issue isn't with suspensions being upheld, it's with them being overturned. It's an unusual occurrence, to the point of non-existence in some counties. If you can explain what was so special about Séamus Callanan's ban that it was overturned when others were not, I'm all ears. And I'm not worried that he's playing for Tipp on Sunday, unless they were planning to play with 14 men without him.

dcrosskid

deiseach wrote: »

The issue isn't with suspensions being upheld, it's with them being overturned. It's an unusual occurrence, to the point of non-existence in some counties. If you can explain what was so special about Séamus Callanan's ban that it was overturned when others were not, I'm all ears. And I'm not worried that he's playing for Tipp on Sunday, unless they were planning to play with 14 men without him.

Taking incidents that have occurred in this years league into account, John Joe Farrell had a red rescinded for a similar incident to Callanan's. In other words they were both sent off for nothing.

The point I was making is that we do not have history of getting red cards over turned which is what you claimed. You claimed the big three always seem to get these decisions which is how I took your "different set of rules" comment. It's our first red card to be rescinded that I can recall so up until last night it was non existent in Tipp also.

I expanded by saying we have plenty of reasons to be a grieved with some suspensions and upgrading of cards in recent years but that wont suit your argument so you moved the goal posts a bit to suit your argument.

deiseach

dcrosskid wrote: »

Taking incidents that have occurred in this years league into account, John Joe Farrell had a red rescinded for a similar incident to Callanan's. In other words they were both sent off for nothing.

The point I was making is that we do not have history of getting red cards over turned which is what you claimed. You claimed the big three always seem to get these decisions which is how I took your "different set of rules" comment. It's our first red card to be rescinded that I can recall so up until last night it was non existent in Tipp also.

I expanded by saying we have plenty of reasons to be a grieved with some suspensions and upgrading of cards in recent years but that wont suit your argument so you moved the goal posts a bit to suit your argument.

I've highlighted the crux of the matter. If red cards were being rescinded because the player was "sent off for nothing" then a lot more red cards would be overturned. The fact that it's not happening suggests that this is not considered a good enough reason to overturn the decision. If you want to argue that there is no bias towards the heavyweights of the game, introducing an example of a Kilkenny lad having his appeal upheld doesn't do your argument any favours. Then again, maybe you are arguing that the heavyweights don't include Tipp

TyrionPower

deiseach wrote: »

I'll be more precise. I'm not saying that the Big Three are successful because the rules are rigged in their favour. That would be silly. I'm saying that when it comes to successful appeals, the rules are different for them. You may think Shefflin et al should not have received red cards no matter where you are from, but I'm amazed it doesn't bother you that the suspensions only seem to stick when you come from places like Waterford.

To be honest it all just sounds like excuses to me

Mountainlad

There is a double standard there with the Waterford incidents last year but I think the right call has been made with Callinan. The time for arguing about last years incidents was last year we'd probably be better off looking forward to the game.

I am glad to see him play the lads will learn more about themselves. We shouldn't be even entertaining the notion of a hammering. How many teams go into semi finals thinking "Jesus I just hope we don't get hammered". I know the all Ireland final in 2008 and 2011 Munster final stick in the mind, and older people are probably still having nightmares about the 80s but too often there is a bit of fear about our prospects. To be fair, that might just be fans and not feature in the players minds at all but nonetheless its a mental frailty that doesn't do anyone any favours.

We can win on Sunday no matter what team Tipp name and hopefully we will.

seananigans

ok, theres no reason be too optimistic this early, but since '08 i really felt a downward spiral coming, i'm pretty sure last year we bottomed out.

there's a real spark there, ,it might not spark this year, or even under mcgrath, but it's there, and i'm just waiting for it to happen .

no time like next sunday

citykat

deiseach wrote: »

Getting back to more mundane matters, anyone care to recommend one of the stands in Nowlan Park for comfort/view/cover/access or is it six-a-one...?

Ardan de Gras is the main/biggest stand. It does have the dreaded pillars so there are visually impacted areas where there'll be a pillar on your right and left obstructing your view. If you want to stay out of the sun, this is the best stand to be in.
The forecast is good for Sunday so if you go for Ardan Breathnach on the opposite side to Ardan de Gras, you're going to have the sun in your eyes for the afternoon.

seananigans

1. Stephen O’Keeffe Ballygunner
2. Shane Fives Tourin
3. Barry Coughlan Ballygunner
4. Noel Connors Passage
5. Tadhg de Búrca Clashmore Kinsalebeg
6. Austin Gleeson Mount S ion
7. Philip Mahony Ballygunner
8. Jamie Barron Fourmilewater
9. Tom Devine Modeligo
10. Kevin Moran De La Salle
11. Pauric Mahony Ballygunner
12. Jake Dillon De La Salle
13. Brian O’Halloran Clashmore Kinsalebeg
14. Michael Walsh Stradbally
15. Colin Dunford Colligan

PTH2009

seananigans wrote: »

1. Stephen O’Keeffe Ballygunner
2. Shane Fives Tourin
3. Barry Coughlan Ballygunner
4. Noel Connors Passage
5. Tadhg de Búrca Clashmore Kinsalebeg
6. Austin Gleeson Mount S ion
7. Philip Mahony Ballygunner
8. Jamie Barron Fourmilewater
9. Tom Devine Modeligo
10. Kevin Moran De La Salle
11. Pauric Mahony Ballygunner
12. Jake Dillon De La Salle
13. Brian O’Halloran Clashmore Kinsalebeg
14. Michael Walsh Stradbally
15. Colin Dunford Colligan

Wonder will that team start Sunday. So brick will deff start in the forwards come championship ???.

archieknox

Why oh why do we persist with these dummy teams? Do people really think that opposition teams won't have their homework done? Crazy S**t! And on Sunday we'll hear that there's one change to the Waterford team! Be brave enough and send out your starting 15 and show we've nothing to fear.

Ropaire

Reckon that could be the team that starts the championship, if so there's no point buying a program!

stumblingblock

Bennett is better off out of the team with the current system. It dosent utilise his strengths at all. Theres really no point in his bursting his bollox running around as an isolated full forward without a hope of winning ball. His hips are a long way off being right anyway whats the point aggrevating it further for basically nothing

deiseach

citykat wrote: »

Ardan de Gras is the main/biggest stand. It does have the dreaded pillars so there are visually impacted areas where there'll be a pillar on your right and left obstructing your view. If you want to stay out of the sun, this is the best stand to be in.
The forecast is good for Sunday so if you go for Ardan Breathnach on the opposite side to Ardan de Gras, you're going to have the sun in your eyes for the afternoon.

Much obliged. Any time I've been at a big crowd in Nowlan Park I've been on a terrace so this is good to know. Although can I ask why ye named a stand after that famous fried chicken lad?