Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

stumblingblock

hurlinbanter wrote: »

I agree with you 100% in the fact that its not ok to go around assaulting each other on the field but the referee is there to keep order he didnt even attempt to do that for the first few minutes...i can honestly say if he was up to it he would of known exactly where it begun and two red cards would have been given immediately which would almost definitely have diffused the situation but instead he wandered around like he was lost. then consult with umpires if it still continues with the rest of the team and mentors as in fairness he cant be expected to see everything but he was like a headless chicken he really wasnt sure what to do. He must show authority and knock it on the head. Im not party to either team but I was honestley afraid someone was going to get seriously injured. The people appointing the referees must also take responsibility they know full well who is capable and who is not putting a ref like dessie into this isnt fair on the referee or the teams. 8 minutes fighting...3 minutes added...5 minutes wasted

Valid, balanced points that I agree with whole-heartedly. The referee has a big role to play obviously in keeping these things under control. But people coming on here calling referees and officials 'fools' and 'clowns' as a means of deflecting from disgraceful players behaviour. I'm not having that. A total cop-out imo. Refs are made scapegoats too often.

paddy13

stumblingblock wrote: »

Valid, balanced points that I agree with whole-heartedly. The referee has a big role to play obviously in keeping these things under control. But people coming on here calling referees and officials 'fools' and 'clowns' as a means of deflecting from disgraceful players behaviour. I'm not having that. A total cop-out imo. Refs are made scapegoats too often.

I fully agree and if the county board have any backbone they should punish both teams adequately. You get sick of these embarrassments to Waterford GAA occurring without any reprimand. I think it Lismore and Ballygunner a few years ago. It's no excuse even if he is a poor referee. Teams need to act with a level of maturity and responsibility. We all can get heated during a match but you need keep your emotions in check.
I would love if Co. board disciplined both teams adequately but not very hopeful. It's the same in almost every county. Something needs to be done before someone really gets hurt.

stumblingblock

Looking at Tipp and KK yesterday was an eye opener I think we are bit behind those 2 sides yet. It’s important we don’t get carried away by the fact we racked up big scores against what is a weak Cork defence. We will need to be a lot more clinical in the forwards to put it up to Tipp in the final. We hit an awful lot of wides aswell the last day that won’t do. I know it’s inevitable that were going to end up taking long range pot-shots due to the style of game we employ, but in that case I think Shane Bennett or Patrick Curran must start the next day as we need at least 5 scoring forwards on the field. If you asked me to drop one from the last day Id say it would be O’Halloran. Earlier in the league he won a lot of frees which was cannon fodder for Pauric Mahony but with Paudie gone now the approach has changed a bit. As good as Maurice played the last day you cannot rely on him as heavily as Pauric for scores. At the moment Brick is the work-horse forward which all teams need. He has taken over from the Seamus Pender role and with all due respect to Pender Brick is much better at it as his ball-winning ability and distribution is top class. Brick in my opinion is key to our attacking threat due to his experience, awareness and positioning. So many of the other forwards are dependent on his selfless work rate in setting up scores. His contribution has been totally understated and in my opinion we wouldn’t be having the year were having without him.

It will be a different Tipp to the side we out-fought and out-thought in the league semi-final that’s for sure. And while management will undoubtedly be reluctant to change a winning team and a winning system its important that you evolve as the season progresses aswell. I’m sure they’ll recognise that the next match will be a step up from anything this team has encountered to date.

Orizio

stumblingblock wrote: »

Looking at Tipp and KK yesterday was an eye opener I think we are bit behind those 2 sides yet. It’s important we don’t get carried away by the fact we racked up big scores against what is a weak Cork defence. We will need to be a lot more clinical in the forwards to put it up to Tipp in the final. We hit an awful lot of wides aswell the last day that won’t do. I know it’s inevitable that were going to end up taking long range pot-shots due to the style of game we employ, but in that case I think Shane Bennett or Patrick Curran must start the next day as we need at least 5 scoring forwards on the field. If you asked me to drop one from the last day Id say it would be O’Halloran. Earlier in the league he won a lot of frees which was cannon fodder for Pauric Mahony but with Paudie gone now the approach has changed a bit. As good as Maurice played the last day you cannot rely on him as heavily as Pauric for scores. At the moment Brick is the work-horse forward which all teams need. He has taken over from the Seamus Pender role and with all due respect to Pender Brick is much better at it as his ball-winning ability and distribution is top class. Brick in my opinion is key to our attacking threat due to his experience, awareness and positioning. So many of the other forwards are dependent on his selfless work rate in setting up scores. His contribution has been totally understated and in my opinion we wouldn’t be having the year were having without him.

It will be a different Tipp to the side we out-fought and out-thought in the league semi-final that’s for sure. And while management will undoubtedly be reluctant to change a winning team and a winning system its important that you evolve as the season progresses aswell. I’m sure they’ll recognise that the next match will be a step up from anything this team has encountered to date.

Agreed. Beating that Cork means little to nothing and doesn't really tell us where Waterford are.

hurlinbanter

paddy13 wrote: »

I fully agree and if the county board have any backbone they should punish both teams adequately. You get sick of these embarrassments to Waterford GAA occurring without any reprimand. I think it Lismore and Ballygunner a few years ago. It's no excuse even if he is a poor referee. Teams need to act with a level of maturity and responsibility. We all can get heated during a match but you need keep your emotions in check.
I would love if Co. board disciplined both teams adequately but not very hopeful. It's the same in almost every county. Something needs to be done before someone really gets hurt.

I think your spot on both teams shoud be dealt with this shouldnt be left slide.islide.i also believe the county board should be answerable they have a responsibility to do right by all clubs in the county by appointing capable referees. while I often think the refferees get blamed in the wrong he wasnt at fault for what happened yesterday initially but he was definitely at fault for not taking control sooner and whats more he didnt look like he was fussed either. Some people think they can sing and they havent a note...other people think they can referee and its just not there..would a leaving cert student be told they got all As and Bs if they failed miserably, no they wouldnt we have to be honest in these situations. .iits wrong the way both teams behaved yesterday but its like putting a gaurd on the street who doesent know the law..personally I dont know the referee but ive seen him fer a few games hed probably be more suited to underage.

archieknox

stumblingblock wrote: »

Valid, balanced points that I agree with whole-heartedly. The referee has a big role to play obviously in keeping these things under control. But people coming on here calling referees and officials 'fools' and 'clowns' as a means of deflecting from disgraceful players behaviour. I'm not having that. A total cop-out imo. Refs are made scapegoats too often.

But they are clowns and fools. What else would you call them for appointing a fella that they knowingly knew wasn't up to the job? Tommy Sullivan was doing linesman on the far side whom I have no doubt if was officiating would have stamped his authority on proceedings and it wouldn't have got out of control.

thegambler2

archieknox wrote: »

But they are clowns and fools. What else would you call them for appointing a fella that they knowingly knew wasn't up to the job? Tommy Sullivan was doing linesman on the far side whom I have no doubt if was officiating would have stamped his authority on proceedings and it wouldn't have got out of control.

He either would have stopped all the fighting or joined in!!

thegambler2

archieknox wrote: »

If you bothered to read my previous posts I did say it was frightening and dangerous and had no place on a GAA field and that both teams were at fault. I am not for one moment making excuses but the facts of the matter are if you have a weak referee you always have the possibility of what went on today happening at any stage during a game. And he IS a weak referee and again I blame the fools that appointed him. A strong referee whom stamps his authority on a game early stops the possibility of the scenes we had today happening under his watch. He doesn't have a full grasp of the rules and players can sense that. Ryan Donnelly is a very lucky man that he wasn't seriously injured in the fracas. A blow to the head with a broken hurley swung like a hatchet in any other walk of life would see the perpetrators locked up.

The shot Ryan Donnelly got was absolutely appalling. And you can not condone anything of that sort. But some of the dungarvan players didn't cover themselves in glory either, in saying that you have to stand up for yourself in a fight. D.Lyons pulled a dirty stroke last year on Eoin Kelly, and a lot of dirty ones in the fight yesterday. Just hope he keeps focusing on his hurling. Would hate to see one of our most talented young players be known for thuggery.
Also I think Austin Gleeson will average one red card every year in his career, fiery player

blueflame

Looking at club scene - really disappointed to hear yet again of another senseless brawl - discipline in club hurling in Waterford has a long way to go. Never yet saw a player really contribute to his team by being sent off for stupid rash dangerous play never mind getting involved in 30 man brawls. Don't think we will ever learn. Best wishes to Billy Nolan,- hoping for a miracle that collarbone is not broken

Moving to inter-county scene, while KK and Tipp were awesome, the performances from Wexford and Limerick were fairly inept. Wexford were at sixes and sevens from the off and every time a ball came into their half of the field the looked likely to concede a goal - they looked like a team totally unprepared and reminded me of our own performances last year, - cannot but wonder if the Jack Guiney thing undermined confidence. Could just have been an off day but one seriously has to wonder. The draw today will show a lot for them.

Tipp fairly destroyed Limerick at will but thanks to some woeful defending For first goal they were left totally exposed at the back of the ruck and once the ball broke Richie McCarthy was left two on one, for the second goal Richie Mc missed a long ball in and Callinan could not believe his luck. Two great finishes though. Limerick looked as if they might make a game of it early in second half but expended a lot of energy getting back into it and were struggling to get scores, Tipp on the other hand the majority of time looked as if they could score at will.

Munster Final will be a big test for Waterford in terms of our system and ability. Cannot see them affording the same room to the Tipp forwards and the potential battle between Connors and Dwyer is mouth watering. Brick will need to apply more pressure on Maher than Limerick did yesterday. Genuinely not writing Waterford's chances of a victory off, but they face an unbelievable challenge, given the relative inexperience of our side. Mind you it is a bit like 2002 all over again Tipp raging favourites, Waterford a team with massive potential. If we can get past this Tipp side in the Munster final, i believe we will fear nothing.

Final comment on venue , Limerick pitch and stadium grand. Having to travel almost the length of Tipp county is not appealing . I have travelled the Limerick road quite a bit over the years and it is a good 2 hours at the best of times. It could take you that to get through Tipp town - anyone remember 2004 league final v Galway!!!

TyrionPower

Just saw the stroke on Ryan Donnelly and it was appalling

Professey Chin

blueflame wrote: »

Final comment on venue , Limerick pitch and stadium grand. Having to travel almost the length of Tipp county is not appealing . I have travelled the Limerick road quite a bit over the years and it is a good 2 hours at the best of times. It could take you that to get through Tipp town - anyone remember 2004 league final v Galway!!!

That was an absolute mess. I remember the team bus barely making it on time

KevIRL

Wasn't there some sort of horse racing event on that Sunday in 2004 as well which added to the bottleneck misery?

Was some grim day though. After the defeat the brother and myself arrived back to the car to find one of the tyres was flat so had to replace that and then get stuck in the traffic for hours

deiseach

Kilkenny were right scary. While Tipperary were pretty impressive, the margin of victory flattered them a bit. Limerick threw all caution to the wind and got punished. Kilkenny, on the other hand, barely broke sweat. Come on, Cody. You must have something better to be doing!

KevIRL

deiseach wrote: »

Kilkenny were right scary. While Tipperary were pretty impressive, the margin of victory flattered them a bit. Limerick threw all caution to the wind and got punished. Kilkenny, on the other hand, barely broke sweat. Come on, Cody. You must have something better to be doing!

I was in Nowlan Park. KK were indeed very impressive, but the game will have done little for them. Wexford were beyond bad yesterday, they seem to have regressed badly from last year. That said I wouldn't like to be Cork facing a trip to Wexford park the home of a wounded beast

deiseach

Deskjockey wrote: »

When is the last time Waterford won in the championship in Limerick?

1966 against Galway. If you think that doesn't count, and Galway were a dead loss in those days, we beat Tipperary in the 1963 Munster final. We've only played three games since that Galway game - Clare in 2008 (9 point loss), Cork in 1983 (19 point loss; a 12 point improvement on 1982!), and Cork in 1966 (6 point loss) - so I wouldn't read too much into it.

archieknox

thegambler2 wrote: »

He either would have stopped all the fighting or joined in!!

Still laughing at this. Brilliant ðŸ‘

archieknox

thegambler2 wrote: »

The shot Ryan Donnelly got was absolutely appalling. And you can not condone anything of that sort. But some of the dungarvan players didn't cover themselves in glory either, in saying that you have to stand up for yourself in a fight. D.Lyons pulled a dirty stroke last year on Eoin Kelly, and a lot of dirty ones in the fight yesterday. Just hope he keeps focusing on his hurling. Would hate to see one of our most talented young players be known for thuggery.
Also I think Austin Gleeson will average one red card every year in his career, fiery player

Agree totally. Lyons needs to learn and quickly as it is a big fault in his game. Has the potential to go on to great things but needs to curtail his red mist descending so quickly. Hopefully its only a youthful thing and he learns from experience.

Deise_2012

TyrionPower wrote: »

Just saw the stroke on Ryan Donnelly and it was appalling

You remind me of hurler on the ditch, would be a first cousin of yours?

archieknox

Nice to hear one of the senior squad has been given special dispensation to take a holiday in Spain for a week before the Munster final. Recharge the batteries for the rest of the u21 and senior championships for the remainder of the year.

deiseach

archieknox wrote: »

Nice to hear one of the senior squad has been given special dispensation to take a holiday in Spain for a week before the Munster final. Recharge the batteries for the rest of the u21 and senior championships for the remainder of the year.

Mrs [insert mammy's name here] be on hand with the engine running and a bag a' fruit in case the flight back is delayed.

Mountainlad

Tipp were impressive, the most striking thing was how clinical they were. That to me though is the only difference in superiority between the two against their respective opponents. When Moran fluffed the pass to Dunford, and when Bennett missed his goal chance I think that should have been two more. Nash had something to do with it too to be fair.

We were poor in the first 20 minutes against Cork but I don't think something like that will happen again. Of course every team has a lull in the game too though, Tipp looked to have it sewn up at half time and suddenly there was only 1 point in it, Tipp not scoring for 13 minutes.

Cork were bad, but Limerick were worse lads. The writing has been on the wall since the league, and its a bad reflection and Clare they couldn't beat them the last day.

Of course you'd have Tipp as favourites, but if they won by a point they'd be favourites. And its fair enough, we haven't beaten them in championship since 2008. But if you look at the trajectory of the league performances in that time it says were getting closer. We are getting closer, and may be able to beat them but it'll be a good experience either way. A young team making strides, beating Tipp in a Munster Final was not the pre season expectation or target, so we've achieved a lot so far. Everytime they've been asked a question so far this year they've answered it.

This is the biggest test Tipp have faced this year too by the way.

archieknox

deiseach wrote: »

Mrs [insert mammy's name here] be on hand with the engine running and a bag a' fruit in case the flight back is delayed.

Haha fellas are on top form here this morning. Loads of sleep got over the weekend I would imagine ðŸ˜ðŸ‘

TyrionPower

Deise_2012 wrote: »

You remind me of hurler on the ditch, would be a first cousin of yours?

Brothers

deiseach

I hadn't slept in weeks, so eager was I for September to arrive.

I slept last night.

crottys lake

Kilkenny's physical strength and ability to go for the jugular was impressive but it must be taken into account how awful Wexford were. I don't think the game was any more relevant than that. It showed us what we all knew, Kilkenny, as always, are serious contenders.

Tipperary also showed us they were alive and well and ready to die for their manager. This is his swansong and the players are 100% with him. The movement of their forwards is excellent and they are blessed with natural ability and silky skills. Contrast all that with the no show of a stagnant Limerick outfit. They offered very little in anyway of resistance and only got back into it because Tipp fell asleep.

So Kilkenny and Tipperary are at the head of the market for their Provincial deciders and the All Ireland. We learned that both are alive, fit, well and hungry, all what we expected. On the other hand Wexford and Limerick should have been pitted against each other behind closed doors yesterday for a non contact challenge such was the paucity of their efforts. Both failed to turn up for one reason or another with the resultant hammerings as a consequence. I expected much more from both of those proud Counties. They can never be as bad again surely, especially with the talent they have within their ranks.

The lesson to take from yesterday so might be not to over react to two non event matches.

The draw was non eventful. Limerick, Clare, Dublin and Cork will come through their respective games. Who will join them ? Most will say Waterford and Galway. I won't be one of them.

I can't call the Leinster game yet [KK obvious favourites] but I am calling the Munster one. Waterford.

kstand

Who was number 6 for Mount Sion who drew the belt on the number 15? Crazy thing to do - completely lost the head. Number 15 was turned away slightly and never saw it coming.

stumblingblock

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp were impressive, the most striking thing was how clinical they were. That to me though is the only difference in superiority between the two against their respective opponents. When Moran fluffed the pass to Dunford, and when Bennett missed his goal chance I think that should have been two more. Nash had something to do with it too to be fair.

We were poor in the first 20 minutes against Cork but I don't think something like that will happen again. Of course every team has a lull in the game too though, Tipp looked to have it sewn up at half time and suddenly there was only 1 point in it, Tipp not scoring for 13 minutes.

Cork were bad, but Limerick were worse lads. The writing has been on the wall since the league, and its a bad reflection and Clare they couldn't beat them the last day.

Of course you'd have Tipp as favourites, but if they won by a point they'd be favourites. And its fair enough, we haven't beaten them in championship since 2008. But if you look at the trajectory of the league performances in that time it says were getting closer. We are getting closer, and may be able to beat them but it'll be a good experience either way. A young team making strides, beating Tipp in a Munster Final was not the pre season expectation or target, so we've achieved a lot so far. Everytime they've been asked a question so far this year they've answered it.

This is the biggest test Tipp have faced this year too by the way.

Were better off going in against a tipp side that ran riot against limerick than one that just scrope by. Puts the onus back on them and gives us a realistic idea of what were facing in the final.

stumblingblock

kstand wrote: »

Who was number 6 for Mount Sion who drew the belt on the number 15? Crazy thing to do - completely lost the head. Number 15 was turned away slightly and never saw it coming.

Check the teamsheets. the no.15 was Ryan Donnelly. Thankfully hes ok. That video has made it onto the public domain. Pretty embarrassing from a waterford perspective. But shur hey its the clowns and fools that put the ref in charge are responsible. This was inevitable.. 😒😒

kstand

stumblingblock wrote: »

Check the teamsheets. the no.15 was Ryan Donnelly. Thankfully hes ok. That video has made it onto the public domain. Pretty embarrassing from a waterford perspective. But shur hey its the clowns and fools that put the ref in charge are responsible. This was inevitable.. 😒😒

Was involved in several matches where brawls started and it was nearly always down to poor refereeing.

Alf Tupper

archieknox wrote: »

Nice to hear one of the senior squad has been given special dispensation to take a holiday in Spain for a week before the Munster final. Recharge the batteries for the rest of the u21 and senior championships for the remainder of the year.

I only heard this myself yesterday at the games in Dungarvan.

It will be interesting if this lad will be started for the Munster final. If he is I'd say a few of the rest of the panel will be scratching their heads in disbelief.

It's difficult to see any inter county manager allowing this to happen three weeks out from a provincial final.