Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

tomwaterford

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

No they wouldn't walk on any team in the country

Burke and glesson possible in future walk on KK team
KK is the barometer to use
Who else
Coughlan best full-back in the country
Seriously now he's protect by a sweeper yer tipp tore him apart for two goal
Apples and oranges imo compare him with riche mac who imo miles better than him
How many cork lads would cody have
Now defo two in harnedy would absolutely and only question is where they would play him
Nash imo would
Horgan would and cody said it before in interview but imo horgan have be consistent but under cody no doubt be making horgan in he'd be told shape up or ship out
Imo three current lads push place KK team
Waterford imo have two but in time not now

You don't want apples oranges situation fair enough compare Waterford last year to this yet you bring all Ireland with cork two years ago in to
Let's be fair now



Cork team beaten by clare are miles apart in harnedy for one is gone up another level, cork play deeper, cadogan cooper Walsh and Murphy have all added to this team to then

Lehane has grown and is now played at half forward
Ellis been huge addition at centre back
Lorcan is playing half back and not midfield

I can give more examples

Well since the full backs player didn't score the goals it is quite a strange conclusion to say he was tore apart ??

You've left out Conners...the best corner back with last few years....and fives near on as good.....Mahoney back from a serious injury this year....I'd rate him better than padraic tbh

You've desided to ignore the midfield of Barron and Moran....a very good combination


Nash has a desperate puck out....just kinda lump it up the field and IMO okeefe a better shot stopper....now that he has cut out the foolish descisions of when he was younger

HatchetMan7

Look Waterford people know how good the Waterford players are better than anyone else and the same for Cork people knowing the Cork team. But as the Waterford team is a lot younger and we've seen this Cork team play I think that a younger team has more room for improvement than a more established team like Cork. Cork will be favorites and I don't think anyone can complain about that but there's not much in it. Thankfully we are playing each other twice so all questions will be answered.

thinkstoomuch1

tomwaterford wrote: »

Well since the full backs player didn't score the goals it is quite a strange conclusion to say he was tore apart ??

You've left out Conners...the best corner back with last few years....and fives near on as good.....Mahoney back from a serious injury this year....I'd rate him better than padraic tbh

You've desided to ignore the midfield of Barron and Moran....a very good combination


Nash has a desperate puck out....just kinda lump it up the field and IMO okeefe a better shot stopper....now that he has cut out the foolish descisions of when he was younger

Did coughlan protect the space in front of he's aera no he did not
Nash two time all star when o keoffe harrows what Nash ploughs then you can talk bt o keoffe
How many all stars keoffe enlighten me please
I ignored all other positions cork too as nine cork half back or midfield not better than KK and unlike you certainly don't get carried away add two plus two get ten when assessment my county team
Nonsense seven Waterford lads so make any team country seriously now

Just to add Nash scored three twelve for cork something keoffe hasn't
Nash way more he's game than o keoffe who yes is a good keeper
However good and great imo there's a difference

deisedude

Jesus lads i dont know about ye but i'm bored of reading several pages of the same ****e over and over again

stumblingblock

deisedude wrote: »

Jesus lads i dont know about ye but i'm bored of reading several pages of the same ****e over and over again

And the vast majority of it about cork.

Deise Hurler

deisedude wrote: »

Jesus lads i dont know about ye but i'm bored of reading several pages of the same ****e over and over again

Same poster manages to ruin nearly every counties GAA thread with nowt but waffle.

thinkstoomuch1

stumblingblock wrote: »

And the vast majority of it about cork.

No its not
Be fair some talk here regards Waterford having better than cork of course any cork fans are going to counter debate when again last few league and championship games cork have beaten Waterford and or worst drew
drew
Cork have problems but any realistic fan would know cork are ahead of Waterford based on last three years and even though Waterford yes different now point is cork played division one hurling this year Waterford haven't so benefits doubt have be with cork rather than Waterford imo



Nobody dispute Waterford have outstanding talents with potential but to hear that some walk on any team in country, are better than cork,more improvement is opinions fair enough but no logic to back it up and mcgrath who lot doubted before suddenly is apparently judging by view here within two weeks seems be man answered all doubts yet good league fair enough but there's real tests ahead

When Waterford answer them fair enough

Point I made repeadly is cork are not imo all Ireland contenders with full back problems but as proven since the past three years under jbm top four team and while KK and tipp are threats cork rest pack certainly aren't and as Waterford hsve more to prove in have be top four team and as of yet are not people should imo not get carried away as as of yet cork are top four team and while potential is there many examples teams in past any sport of teams had potential but never cultivated it in real success

Ropaire

Jesus Cork give me ire, some arrogant county even when they haven't got a great team to back up all the jawing.

Rem that time Nash hit that free and O'Keefe took it in the thigh, then busted Nash on the way back to his line and Nash dived to the ground trying to get him sent off? That was funny, best thing I ever seen Nash do in a Cork jersey.

thinkstoomuch1

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Same poster manages to ruin nearly every counties GAA thread with nowt but waffle.

That's not debating be fair
Just cause you don't like what the view is doesn't mean it can not be said and you use that line
If the points are such nonsense then it should be easy to debate them
Debate the points if you think there waffle and if you're logic proves that then it's easy dilute a point made rather than just make a one line statement that is not engagement of true debate be fair

Ropaire

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

That's not debating be fair
Just cause you don't like what the view is doesn't mean it can not be said and you use that line
If the points are such nonsense then it should be easy to debate them
Debate the points if you think there waffle and if you're logic proves that then it's easy dilute a point made rather than just make a one line statement that is not engagement of true debate be fair

Can you not debate Cork GAA on the Cork forum?

Orizio

citykat wrote: »

It's a bit rich for a Cork supporter to be calling a KK player a flopper.

Its a bit rich for a KK supporter to be calling a Cork player a flopper.

Orizio

redlead wrote: »

I said "starring"

...nope that was still Cork players.

Lets be honest, your comment was based on the UCC/CIT game a couple of nights ago which ignored the fact that best of the Cork players were competition tied (Lehane, Cadogan, Spillane) or injured (Murphy, Lawton).

stumblingblock

As much as I hate to go off topic here and discuss WATERFORD issues, Anyone at the minor football game tonight? Looks like a game we should have won….. But some some light at the end of the tunnel nonetheless.

HatchetMan7

stumblingblock wrote: »

As much as I hate to go off topic here and discuss WATERFORD issues, Anyone at the minor football game tonight? Looks like a game we should have won….. But some some light at the end of the tunnel nonetheless.

Conor Prunty was very good midfield apparently for the minor footballers against Limerick. He is fullback for the minor hurlers, did anyone see that game and could he be the natural fullback that the senior team are looking for. Will he be fullback for the U21 hurlers this year?

Brad1234

There are some clichés which really get my goat up that I've seen floating about here in relation to who is better Waterford or Cork.

There is no Doubt Cork are further down the Track a lot more experience in big games and big days and are physically developed Better than Waterford. But tactically there probably as dumb as the Waterford team of the noughties and that will get you so far but will never win you an all Ireland.

First example 'Waterford full back line is poor and is being protected by the teaming being so defensive.. What a load of nonsense.. Likes of Clare and KK the last two Ireland winners did it on those principles. Cork give the full back zero protection go out and play 15 on 15 and I love watching it but it is suicide in the modern game where most teams are running from deep creating over laps.. You can see the Cork Full back line Under severe pressure every time it gets down there and they have some fabulous hurlers such as O Neill (up to 2013 I would consider him one of the best defenders in Ireland) but now he looks like he is 1 mistake from a meltdown.. Cahalane looks like a good stopper and bit like Brian Murphy give him a job to man mark a guy but not if the guy he's marking has so much space to trot around picking up ball because he has no interest in trying to read space, his eyes are firmly planted on the player he is marking

Waterford Too Reliant on a free taker: The last time I checked everyone relies on a free taker.. Horgan got 14 points from Frees on Sunday.. Every team in Ireland relies on a free taker.. Look at tipp last year O'dwyer to be harsh about it cost them an All Ireland at the death.. In the game of Hurling there are tons of frees per game especially now where any form of contact with another players hurley is a free and also a glance of a helmet automatic free.. A huge chunk in every game of scores on the board are now from frees..

I think the game on Sunday week will come down to how Waterford stop Kearney and Harnedy.. Manage to hold these guys down we'll win it.. Kearney for me is easily the best midfielder in Ireland he can do it all.. Barron will probably be picking him and has a terrific year so far but that's a massive test for him.. On the flip side I hope Aidan Walsh is out the middle with him cause he does nothing.. Moran would have him for breakfast dinner and supper.. Saw him like everyone else play u21 for cork and thought he is some waste playing football.. Since he's made the move he has been poor in nearly every game I've seen.. His striking is poor hes touch is as poor for an Intercounty player as I've seen and he'll make a couple of showy runs down the middle every now and then but you wont see him for the rest of the game.. Kearney is doing the work of two men out there..

Harnedy is someone that we completely miss in our side.. What a star he is again can do it all.. Score, tackle and a massive will to win.. Hopefully based on the number of bodies who will be around might help in some way to negate him.

The rest of believe we are at least on par with.. I'd say horgan will be having nightmares leading up to it thinking about Noel Connors again.. Can never get a turn out of him..

archieknox

Brad1234 wrote: »

There are some clichés which really get my goat up that I've seen floating about here in relation to who is better Waterford or Cork.

There is no Doubt Cork are further down the Track a lot more experience in big games and big days and are physically developed Better than Waterford. But tactically there probably as dumb as the Waterford team of the noughties and that will get you so far but will never win you an all Ireland.

First example 'Waterford full back line is poor and is being protected by the teaming being so defensive.. What a load of nonsense.. Likes of Clare and KK the last two Ireland winners did it on those principles. Cork give the full back zero protection go out and play 15 on 15 and I love watching it but it is suicide in the modern game where most teams are running from deep creating over laps.. You can see the Cork Full back line Under severe pressure every time it gets down there and they have some fabulous hurlers such as O Neill (up to 2013 I would consider him one of the best defenders in Ireland) but now he looks like he is 1 mistake from a meltdown.. Cahalane looks like a good stopper and bit like Brian Murphy give him a job to man mark a guy but not if the guy he's marking has so much space to trot around picking up ball because he has no interest in trying to read space, his eyes are firmly planted on the player he is marking

Waterford Too Reliant on a free taker: The last time I checked everyone relies on a free taker.. Horgan got 14 points from Frees on Sunday.. Every team in Ireland relies on a free taker.. Look at tipp last year O'dwyer to be harsh about it cost them an All Ireland at the death.. In the game of Hurling there are tons of frees per game especially now where any form of contact with another players hurley is a free and also a glance of a helmet automatic free.. A huge chunk in every game of scores on the board are now from frees..

I think the game on Sunday week will come down to how Waterford stop Kearney and Harnedy.. Manage to hold these guys down we'll win it.. Kearney for me is easily the best midfielder in Ireland he can do it all.. Barron will probably be picking him and has a terrific year so far but that's a massive test for him.. On the flip side I hope Aidan Walsh is out the middle with him cause he does nothing.. Moran would have him for breakfast dinner and supper.. Saw him like everyone else play u21 for cork and thought he is some waste playing football.. Since he's made the move he has been poor in nearly every game I've seen.. His striking is poor hes touch is as poor for an Intercounty player as I've seen and he'll make a couple of showy runs down the middle every now and then but you wont see him for the rest of the game.. Kearney is doing the work of two men out there..

Harnedy is someone that we completely miss in our side.. What a star he is again can do it all.. Score, tackle and a massive will to win.. Hopefully based on the number of bodies who will be around might help in some way to negate him.

The rest of believe we are at least on par with.. I'd say horgan will be having nightmares leading up to it thinking about Noel Connors again.. Can never get a turn out of him..

Agree fully Brad, Kearney is what you call a work horse in the best meaning possible. His workrate and ability to win the dirty ball as its called is phenomenal. There is a piece on the Irish examiner this week about the stats from the Cork/Dublin game and he figures highly in all of them. Have to agree aswell about Walsh,he looks a tremendous athlete but his hurling at this level is average and you're right about Horgan aswell,he never gets anything off Connors so to be honest the more the both teams are analysed the more confident i get. Harnedy will take stopping that's for certain but ive yet to see Philip O Mahony get a roasting and i would be very confident the ballygunner man will be more than capable of curtailing his darting runs. Possibly where we could struggle is with Cadogan's pace in the full forward line. I know he didn't have the best of days against the dubs but i would still be fearful he could do damage.
Going forward into the championship i feel the tactics we're using will definitely require a 20 man effort. We're as fit as we're ever going to be by the looks of things and with the ball travelling faster and the ground getting harder it will sap even more energy from the players. I would worry about our long term injuries having a positive input into things as they have been out for so long all 3 haven't played any competitive hurling for months. Stephen Daniels,Darragh Fives and Ryan Donnelly all need a run in the club championship to see where they're at but i can't see Dono even starting for Dungarvan against Lismore in the first game.
The game plan is demanding and is a young mans style of play. It suits the likes of Dunford and Barron and De Burca as they are versatile hurlers. They can adapt to any style that is imposed on them,the same with Austin Gleeson. Add into the mix Shane Bennett,another player that has versatility written all over him,Ray Barry the same(when he comes back next year) and you all of a sudden have options and cover for most positions. Paddy Curran will obviously add class to the forwards so i suppose being the doubting Thomas that i was at the start of the year i can see light at the end of the tunnel. Whether its shining on Liam McCarthy is another thing! Maybe the energy saving bulbs might be required for another year or two!!

stumblingblock

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Conor Prunty was very good midfield apparently for the minor footballers against Limerick. He is fullback for the minor hurlers, did anyone see that game and could he be the natural fullback that the senior team are looking for. Will he be fullback for the U21 hurlers this year?

Mixed enough that night to be honest. Made a couple of errors but did showed signs he could have future potential there aswell. Probably not accustomed to playing there with his club and school. Hed normally be further out the field.
Very hard to judge minors on just one night to be fair. Full back is a position where players often dont peak or grow into the position until well into their their 20s, depending on how they / their game develops.

deiseach

deisedude wrote: »

Jesus lads i dont know about ye but i'm bored of reading several pages of the same ****e over and over again

Yes, let's get back on topic. Does anyone know the dimensions of pitch in Ballinanscreen?

thinkstoomuch1

Brad1234 wrote: »

There are some clichés which really get my goat up that I've seen floating about here in relation to who is better Waterford or Cork.

There is no Doubt Cork are further down the Track a lot more experience in big games and big days and are physically developed Better than Waterford. But tactically there probably as dumb as the Waterford team of the noughties and that will get you so far but will never win you an all Ireland.

First example 'Waterford full back line is poor and is being protected by the teaming being so defensive.. What a load of nonsense.. Likes of Clare and KK the last two Ireland winners did it on those principles. Cork give the full back zero protection go out and play 15 on 15 and I love watching it but it is suicide in the modern game where most teams are running from deep creating over laps.. You can see the Cork Full back line Under severe pressure every time it gets down there and they have some fabulous hurlers such as O Neill (up to 2013 I would consider him one of the best defenders in Ireland) but now he looks like he is 1 mistake from a meltdown.. Cahalane looks like a good stopper and bit like Brian Murphy give him a job to man mark a guy but not if the guy he's marking has so much space to trot around picking up ball because he has no interest in trying to read space, his eyes are firmly planted on the player he is marking

Waterford Too Reliant on a free taker: The last time I checked everyone relies on a free taker.. Horgan got 14 points from Frees on Sunday.. Every team in Ireland relies on a free taker.. Look at tipp last year O'dwyer to be harsh about it cost them an All Ireland at the death.. In the game of Hurling there are tons of frees per game especially now where any form of contact with another players hurley is a free and also a glance of a helmet automatic free.. A huge chunk in every game of scores on the board are now from frees..

I think the game on Sunday week will come down to how Waterford stop Kearney and Harnedy.. Manage to hold these guys down we'll win it.. Kearney for me is easily the best midfielder in Ireland he can do it all.. Barron will probably be picking him and has a terrific year so far but that's a massive test for him.. On the flip side I hope Aidan Walsh is out the middle with him cause he does nothing.. Moran would have him for breakfast dinner and supper.. Saw him like everyone else play u21 for cork and thought he is some waste playing football.. Since he's made the move he has been poor in nearly every game I've seen.. His striking is poor hes touch is as poor for an Intercounty player as I've seen and he'll make a couple of showy runs down the middle every now and then but you wont see him for the rest of the game.. Kearney is doing the work of two men out there..

Harnedy is someone that we completely miss in our side.. What a star he is again can do it all.. Score, tackle and a massive will to win.. Hopefully based on the number of bodies who will be around might help in some way to negate him.

The rest of believe we are at least on par with.. I'd say horgan will be having nightmares leading up to it thinking about Noel Connors again.. Can never get a turn out of him..

A sensible post with lot valid points in actually equal to cork in praise at times imo

However the frees you hsve a point yea but take for example cork v Dublin you're correct fourteen from frees but cork got one thirteen from play
Waterford had eleven frees only one seven from play so as other games nit anything wrong frees my point is Waterford unlike cork over reliance on frees and not scoring freely
Cork can score more imo from long distance


As for full back you are correct cork play dumb tactics in not protection full back line but my point is not taking from coughlan in doing okay but talk he's best full-back in game along riche max who imo is the best and doesn't get any protection in a sweeper is incorrect

Problems Waterford have is the only way they will expose cork full back line is to go orthodox
If they do we will see how good coughlan is man for man


The point regards o Connor is good and horgan has to perform no excuse
The good news for cork is cadogan sullivan and luke cork have all good subs

Kevin moran is fine player imo was great however to say he will eat Walsh for breakfast dinner and supper I'd disagree
Walsh hurling all games last year was good bar tipp but now hurling alone he will get better
He still has work to do yes
He was played half back line that never played together Sunday so that must be taken on board and don't forget he had a great second half and scored brilliant point

Rest of your post I agree with
At last kearney gets credit he earned
I think barron is a terrific hurler but needs consistency but he's young and that can come in time
The question is will Waterford stick to their system or change
Mcgrath uses words like simulation a lot which sounds good yes but imo he's big question here does he play orthodox and at least have a plan b for June or will stick to the one system

Picasso100

Waterford 7to1 for Munster.
It's only two games,
might worth a small bet

deiseach

There's been a lot of talk after the game on Sunday about Waterford's discipline. There was one moment where a Waterford player in the middle, think it was Jamie Barron, found himself beaten to the ball and you could see him get out of the way of the onrushing Tipp player rather than giving away the free. Even at the time I remember thinking "good on ya!" I think the right choice was to let the man away and force him into the choice of a long-range point on the run or running/playing the ball into our defence rather than fouling the man which gives the superficial satisfaction of doing something rather than nothing but most likely just gives away a point and makes a ref more inclined to penalise you later in 50:50 moments. Does anyone know if there is an official strategy of avoiding conceding frees, or is the sample size, both in terms of this one incident and the whole game, too small to be able to make a judgement?

conditioned games

deiseach wrote: »

Yes, let's get back on topic. Does anyone know the dimensions of pitch in Ballinanscreen?

Twas yourself that started asking questions about the size of pitches You should make the effort to go to Thurles the next day, see first hand how it is not the same size as Nolan Park and maybe common sense prevails.

thinkstoomuch1

conditioned games wrote: »

Twas yourself that started asking questions about the size of pitches You should make the effort to go to Thurles the next day, see first hand how it is not the same size as Nolan Park and maybe common sense prevails.

Totally agree well said
If you ask a question surely just cause you don't like the answer doesn't mean then a topic shouldn't be discussed
Well said bout Thurles

TyrionPower

deiseach wrote: »

There's been a lot of talk after the game on Sunday about Waterford's discipline. There was one moment where a Waterford player in the middle, think it was Jamie Barron, found himself beaten to the ball and you could see him get out of the way of the onrushing Tipp player rather than giving away the free. Even at the time I remember thinking "good on ya!" I think the right choice was to let the man away and force him into the choice of a long-range point on the run or running/playing the ball into our defence rather than fouling the man which gives the superficial satisfaction of doing something rather than nothing but most likely just gives away a point and makes a ref more inclined to penalise you later in 50:50 moments. Does anyone know if there is an official strategy of avoiding conceding frees, or is the sample size, both in terms of this one incident and the whole game, too small to be able to make a judgement?

We gave away some very poor frees as well, obviously on the whole the team are very disciplined but there are one are two giving away stupid lazy frees that must be very frustrating for managment

crottys lake

Interesting game tonight between Limerick and Waterford senior hurling. Limerick will have strong team.

PTH2009

one thing that stuck in the back of my head is that how similar this waterford team is too clare 2013 (nobody gave clare a hope of winning the all ireland that year). I mite be getting way ahead of myself but anything is possible but its hard to see A Waterford all ireland win but you never know, id take a quarter final apperance at least but if were in the qualifers its going to be hard anyone can beat anyone.

Managers from different countys are going to be watching Waterford in the league final and think of ways to beat us. Mcgrath strikes me as a man who dosent do plan b and if cork are hammering us he will persist in the same tactics.

archieknox

crottys lake wrote: »

Interesting game tonight between Limerick and Waterford senior hurling. Limerick will have strong team.

Any idea where its on?

crottys lake

archieknox wrote: »

Any idea where its on?

Holycross or Boherlahan, I might take a run out there, will post ht and ft score if possible.

crottys lake

Half Time in Holycross. I make the score Limerick 1-19 Waterford 2-7.

James Ryan, Shane Dowling, Mulcahy , Tobin doing some of the scoring for Limerick.

Shane Roche [full back] , Sephen Daniels [wing back], Shane McNulty [corner] Donie Breathnach best for Waterford. Tom Devine, Brian O Halloran, Paudie Pender [centre back],, S O Sullivan and Eddie Barrett midfield are some of our players but no starter from last Sunday. D J Foran got a goal. Limerick at full strength.

crottys lake

Final score in Holycross . Limerick 1-30 Waterford 3-17.

Limerick had one of their final workouts before their upcoming Championship match against Clare in a few weeks time when at near full strength they beat Waterford by the above score. Waterford rallied well after being some way behind to finish within 7 points. The Shannonsiders were prolific from long range with most of their marquee names contributing. They looked well up to Championship pace ,as one would expect and they are going to give Clare some rattle when they meet. I cannot call that game yet.

Shane Roche [Shamrocks] looked very solid at full back.Michael Harney scored an excellent goal [our third, D J Foran and Donie Breathnach got the others ] when he came on and this lad has a future. He is very strong and has a great attitude. Gavin O'Brien stuck over some fine scores as did Shane O'Sullivan amongst others. Stephen Daniels had a fine game. Eddie Barrett is slowly regaining his undoubted ability and will relish a few more of these matches to get back to his best. Waterford played almost everybody that travelled and when you consider that none of the starting 15 from last Sunday saw game time we have to be happy [S O'S and Brian O' did come on v Tipp].