Luas Red Line security issues mega thread (read mod warming in post #1)

MrWalsh

Deleted User wrote: »

No evidence, just prejudice.

Again, what evidence do you want? We're not in court. It's a discussion forum.

listermint

MrWalsh wrote: »

Can't speak for Paris and New York but in London you can't get through to the platform without a valid ticket for your journey, nor can you get out afterwards. It's a bit of a no brainer.

I've been on many trains in the UK scumbags can buy tickets too.

That's a no brainer

Hans Bricks

Saw some poor gullible looking foreign tourist get fined by an inspector for having the wrong fare last month. This straight after deliberately by passing two complete smackheads falling all over the kip.(They were that out of it).

If you're an anti social puke, you get free reign in Dublin. Sure why go after scumbags when you can hassle the innocent looking chap with the glasses ?

_Kaiser_

nc19 wrote: »

took my 2 yr old on her first trip on th green line. lovely couple of hrs.

wouldn't dream of getting on the red line on my own never mind with a child

Green line is fine.. have used it a few times at different hours/days and no problems at all.

However I fully expect that to change when the current LUAS BXD works are complete and they've made it oh so convenient for the current Red Line "issues" to transfer onto the Green Line.

Fully agree with the calls for a proper empowered Transport Police who can deal with troublemakers - who knows, it may well happen when the problems get as far as SCD...

Sleveile

Live in Saggart aswell but dont use the Luas. With the bus you have to pay to get on, on the luas the door opens and anyone/anything can just walk on.

MrWalsh

listermint wrote: »

I've been on many trains in the UK scumbags can buy tickets too.

That's a no brainer

They can. It's the ones without tickets under discussion here though.

blackwave

Sleveile wrote: »

Live in Saggart aswell but dont use the Luas. With the bus you have to pay to get on, on the luas the door opens and anyone/anything can just walk on.

And that's the crux of why there are issues on the Luas, anyone can walk on be it a regular joe soap or a complete and utter scummer! If there was a way to force payment before you walked onto the platform it would reduce the whole level of anti social behaviour but as some have said that will will only hide the symptoms of it being on the luas. One thing I hope that the government really tries to tackle is the drug and anti social problem that effects Dublin over the next few years.

anncoates

I used to get it every day to work and didn't think it was as bad as some people are saying (I wouldn't have considered stopping using it) but there's definitely an issue with junkies and kids fcuking about. A good (or bad) example of the latter is the traveller kids that get the trams to fettercairn.

The problem with comparing to the London tube is that you can't get on that without paying whereas the Luas is essentially free travel if you don't care about getting occasionally nabbed.

The cost of putting security on every single tram would be astronomical I'd say so it's hard to know exactly what to do about it.

anncoates

[Deleted User] wrote: »

More Red Line guff - hysterical over-reaction without a screed of evidence to support it.

Seeing people you are prejudiced against doesn't qualify as hassle or trouble - this thread is like reading the Princess and the Pea.

That's horse sh1t. I grew up in West Tallaght and I'm not a shrinking violet. I agree some of the people saying that they're afraid to get on it is a bit OTT but if you're saying it doesn't have enough anti social behaviour to necessitate a certain amount of caution, you're wrong.

ionadnapokot

no its not an ott reaction. The red line is an embarrassment to the city. I have intervened twice when someone was getting racially abused. u can imagine the abuse I then received. I could go on and on with things I have witnessed on that line. Its not acceptable. Security..pfft. But I do feel sorry for them. It needs to be seriously ramped up.
I'm particularly embarrassed when I see the look on tourists faces. I try to catch their eye and kind of shake my head at them.
Travelled on a decent no. of metro/undergrounds throughout Europe and America and I can say with hand on heart that the red line is by far THE WORST.

IsMiseMyself

anncoates wrote: »

That's horse sh1t. I grew up in West Tallaght and I'm not a shrinking violet. I agree some of the people saying that they're afraid to get on it is a bit OTT but if you're saying it doesn't have enough anti social behaviour to necessitate a certain amount of caution, you're wrong.

Absolutely. Like I said earlier: I spend an hour twenty on the Red Line everyday. While there are plenty of exaggerations, there are times where the Luas is really, really rough. At certainly times (night-time on a fairly empty tram and surrounded by gob****ey young groups of lads), it can be a bit intimidating. One of my housemates had her phone robbed out of her hand. Another had an attempted phone robbery only last week.

While there's plenty of hyperbole flying around, the Red Line can be a kip.

BD45

Why is Dublin so full of scum?

MrWalsh

MrWalsh wrote: »

Again, what evidence do you want? We're not in court. It's a discussion forum.

No, because court is a place for people you don't like. Amirite?

It would add some light (rather than heat) if some contributors would produce something concrete to support what they are saying that goes beyond the same tired and stale prejudices that people insist on trotting out whenever this subject gets a mention. We know that there are loads of types we don't like along the route of the Red Line. The fact that it has a stop at the Four Courts is something of a giveaway in that regard. But operating a transport system on the basis of our prejudices is not the right way to do things.

anncoates wrote: »

....a certain amount of caution.....

I'm cautious on the Red Line, but no more cautious than I am walking the route from the bottom of George's Street to the top of Rathmines on a Friday night.

We've already had at least one contributor to this thread wonder why the Red Line was built where it was built. That's not being cautious, it's just being over-emotional. We've had contributors to this thread and previous threads assert that "the problems on the Red Line" are creating a decline in numbers using it, when those numbers are in fact rising.

Have a debate - but base it on the facts, not assertions, and certainly not prejudices.

n97 mini

BD45 wrote: »

Why is Dublin so full of scum?

It's a major urban centre, it attracts all sorts. Conversely it's the dynamo that supports the rest of the country financially.

wagtail99

stehyl15 wrote: »

But in morocco you get stoned to death for shoplifting

No you don't.
Morocco is as similar to Saudi Arabia or ISIS, as Ireland is to Peru or East Timor. Because countries have the same religion doesn't mean that they have identical cultures and laws.
All the best

ShakerMaker91

whenever there's a football game at the Aviva we get the red line from the red cow to Connolly I must say I've never have any problems on it although it does seem to be junkie central at times

anncoates

[quote="[Deleted User];94619161] "It would add some light (rather than heat) if some contributors would produce something concrete to support what they are saying that goes beyond the same tired and stale prejudices .[/quote]

Where are you from?

I was brought up there. Are you saying that my observation about issues on the Luas is down to prejudice or fear? That's news to me.

I can understand it might suit your agenda to claim that everybody saying there are issues are some kind of terrified middle class numpties so go with that if it pleases you or makes you feel clever. .

Stop using the usual studenty obfuscation tactic of demanding 'concrete evidence' in order to discredit people while offering nothing yourself and painting people as right wing, middle class crybabies because they criticize aspects of public transport. I got the Luas (the whole line) every working day for a long time. It has an issue with anti social behaviour. I observed this. My friend's (from the same background as me) observed this. Not enough to warrant some of the hyperbole here or for me to stop using the service but it's a definite issue.

Note : I'm writing this on the Luas

monument

Racist comment deleted, please don't post such again or you will be banned.

Sean9015

MrWalsh wrote: »

Can't speak for Paris and New York but in London you can't get through to the platform without a valid ticket for your journey, nor can you get out afterwards. It's a bit of a no brainer.

You are not comparing like with like. The underground is a fully segregated system, LUAS runs on street. No on street tramway, certainly in the UK, operates as such a closed system - it is impossible to achieve on street.

laurenhiggins

I come home from tallaght to hueston most nights after nine and I have experienced some things they definitely need more security as they can well afford it

MrWalsh

Deleted User wrote: »

No, because court is a place for people you don't like. Amirite?

It would add some light (rather than heat) if some contributors would produce something concrete to support what they are saying that goes beyond the same tired and stale prejudices that people insist on trotting out whenever this subject gets a mention. We know that there are loads of types we don't like along the route of the Red Line. The fact that it has a stop at the Four Courts is something of a giveaway in that regard. But operating a transport system on the basis of our prejudices is not the right way to do things.




I'm cautious on the Red Line, but no more cautious than I am walking the route from the bottom of George's Street to the top of Rathmines on a Friday night.

We've already had at least one contributor to this thread wonder why the Red Line was built where it was built. That's not being cautious, it's just being over-emotional. We've had contributors to this thread and previous threads assert that "the problems on the Red Line" are creating a decline in numbers using it, when those numbers are in fact rising.

Have a debate - but base it on the facts, not assertions, and certainly not prejudices.

meh, just trolling for attention or some agenda, welcome to my ignore list!

syklops

listermint wrote: »

Not being funny but isn't most of this due to your inability to identify the local scumbags in either of these countries.

Id say ask a local the same question there and they would give you a different answer. Why because you'd be ignorant of the dangers and they wouldn't.



Ridiculous.

An intimidating gang of junkies is intimidating whether its in Dublin or Belgrade. Its not a case of not knowing the lingo. You can get a bus or tram all over Prague or Bratislava all day long and see maybe the odd drunk and thats it. I see 20 or 30 junkies on my way to work and many for some inconceivable reason have free transport passes.

I seriously think people have rose tinted glasses about other countries..

I think you are the one with rose tinted glasses if you can honestly deny there is a problem with anti-social behaviour in the city centre and on some of our transport links.

frankoreagan

The problems exist because successive governments solution to the addiction epidemic that has plagued Dublin since the mid 80's starts and ends with methadone maintenance therapy (with the big clinics in the city center) and a few token detox beds. They're answer to the homeless problem was, and still is poxy b+b's dotted in and around the city center that tip their residents out onto the streets from morning until evening.

Throw in a complete and utter lack of visible and competent policing, and you have the recipe for the shambles that are witnessed daily on public transport and around the city center in general.

mojesius

I try avoiding the red luas if I can. I had a full bottle of coke flung at my head by some scrote on it a few years ago at a stop near Drimnagh. He did apologise, upon being prompted to by my very angry boyfriend: "eerrrr sorry luv, I wasn't thrown ih ah you".

No, in fact, he meant to hit his burd/moh with it. They'd been screaming and effing and blinding and crying at each other all the way from town. Waited until we were well off the luas before telling my boyfriend "yer only a bleeding muppeh". We laugh now... but it wasnt fun at the time.

syklops

frankoreagan wrote: »

The problems exist because successive governments solution to the addiction epidemic that has plagued Dublin since the mid 80's starts and ends with methadone maintenance therapy (with the big clinics in the city center) and a few token detox beds. They're answer to the homeless problem was, and still is poxy b+b's dotted in and around the city center that tip their residents out onto the streets from morning until evening.

Throw in a complete and utter lack of visible and competent policing, and you have the recipe for the shambles that are witnessed daily on public transport and around the city center in general.

You did a better job of summing it up than I did.

So we have methadone maintenance clinics. Methadone maintenance clinics around the corner from Abbey Street, a street that should be in a 'nice' area due to its part in Irish culture and history. Abbey street has a Luas which can transport the cancer victims all the way to Tallaght. And because their life is so difficult heres a travel pass as well.

cmore123

Every city in the world has a combination of decent, responsible, well-mannered people, and neanderthal scumbag filth. Maybe proportions vary from on place to the next, but there's one issue shines out in Dublin and in Ireland in general as a beacon. The state and public transport by-laws are WAY too soft on anti-social morons. Where real issues exist, like people urinating on trams, the gardai, not security men, need to be there, and they need to arrest them and meaningfully deal with them. The problem is chronic under investment in our national policing force - they haven't anything like the manpower to deal with antisocialism, so the scumbags just carry on. If we were all scumbags, so would we. There's zero deterrent.

syklops

cmore123 wrote: »

Every city in the world has a combination of decent, responsible, well-mannered people, and neanderthal scumbag filth. Maybe proportions vary from on place to the next, but there's one issue shines out in Dublin and in Ireland in general as a beacon. The state and public transport by-laws are WAY too soft on anti-social morons. Where real issues exist, like people urinating on trams, the gardai, not security men, need to be there, and they need to arrest them and meaningfully deal with them. The problem is chronic under investment in our national policing force - they haven't anything like the manpower to deal with antisocialism, so the scumbags just carry on. If we were all scumbags, so would we. There's zero deterrent.

I'll go one further and say the courts and prison service are the problem. The gardai do a good job for the resources they have but when its your third time sending a file to the DPP for one particular individual who was given a suspended sentence the first time, and let off on bail the second where he committed the third crime, it has to be very demoralising.

I was in the US in August and met a woman whose son is in prison. He stole a car when he was 16 and was caught with some blow when he was 17 and when he was 22 he stole a DVD from a shop. Third strike, and he has been doing jail for 4 years with 2 to go.

I'm not sure if 3 strikes, go direct to jail do not collect $200 is the way to go, but when guys are wandering around with 30 and 40 convictions, you have to wonder.

AlekSmart

cmore123 wrote: »

. Where real issues exist, like people urinating on trams, the gardai, not security men, need to be there, and they need to arrest them and meaningfully deal with them. The problem is chronic under investment in our national policing force - they haven't anything like the manpower to deal with antisocialism, so the scumbags just carry on. If we were all scumbags, so would we. There's zero deterrent.

Criticism of the Gardai is somewhat misplaced in many cases as the force has been stripped bare in so many areas.

One associated area is the simple enforcement of Road Traffic Law,respect for which is declining in freefall.....The reason,as outlined by Ms Liz O'Donnell,Chairperson of the Road Safety Authority is starkly apparent...

http://rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2015/Statement-from-Ms-Liz-ODonnell-Chairperson-Road-Safety-Authority/

The RSA notes the release of figures indicating that the number of Gardaí in the Traffic Corps has fallen from 1,200 in 2009 to approximately 750 in 2014.

That level of decline is unacceptable,full stop....particularly when viewed in the context of an 18% increase in population along with a 44% Increase in registered vehicles in the period 2000-2010.

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

Where are you from?

I was brought up there. Are you saying that my observation about issues on the Luas is down to prejudice or fear? That's news to me.

I can understand it might suit your agenda to claim that everybody saying there are issues are some kind of terrified middle class numpties so go with that if it pleases you or makes you feel clever. .

Stop using the usual studenty obfuscation tactic of demanding 'concrete evidence' in order to discredit people while offering nothing yourself and painting people as right wing, middle class crybabies because they criticize aspects of public transport. I got the Luas (the whole line) every working day for a long time. It has an issue with anti social behaviour. I observed this. My friend's (from the same background as me) observed this. Not enough to warrant some of the hyperbole here or for me to stop using the service but it's a definite issue.

Note : I'm writing this on the Luas

There's no value in getting personal; if you had a strong case you wouldn't need to make pejorative remarks that are based on your own prejudices rather than anything I've posted.

As you should well know, you can't ask someone to produce evidence of an absence. It can't be done, and there's no logical reason why it should be done. It's the people who make claims that something extraordinary is happening who should produce evidence for their claims.

And anyway, haven't you agreed with what I said? As you said in your post above, there's not enough of an issue to warrant the hyperbole here.

MrWalsh

MrWalsh wrote: »

meh, just trolling for attention or some agenda, welcome to my ignore list!

Evidence rather than prejudice; it's a small ask, IMO.