Luas Red Line security issues mega thread (read mod warming in post #1)

KCAccidental

wouldn't be particularly pointless if you keep barrier free within zone 1. Fair enough people could fare evade in that zone, but if they have to tag off to get out of the stops in zone 2-5, it would have an impact.

Personally, I prefer barrier free alright. Much more accommodating.

stehyl15

It would be good though for the amount of people (including myself) who forget to tag off their leap cards but to install a shelter like that would be expensive and the original cost may outweigh the loses to fare evaders

stehyl15

KCAccidental wrote: »

I said outside the city centre, it wouldn't be feasible for jervis, smithfield or abbey street. You could get away with not having them in zone 1 for instance.

Apologies I misread got distracted looking at the pic but this could also be a good idea if brt does come along

stehyl15

KCAccidental wrote: »

Some of the stops on the green line like Ranelagh and Balally could easily install barriers as they are away from surface pedestrian level.

But Balally also has a convience store and a few other shops

Aard

Barriers on the Luas are never going to happen. Suggesting installing them is a reactionary and simple response.

Red Alert

I personally think a co-ordinated response with much more security officers is required. The lads they have at the moment are good at what they do, but they need much more of them. Now, if the gardai in these areas could revert back to lugs brannigan we could get a real clean-up going.

mikemac1

When it comes to drinking, smoking & fighting I find Dublin Bus far worse than the Red line.

But then I get the 40 which replaced the 78A. :P New route number, same locals

Earlier this week the 38 was suspended in Corduff near Blanchardstown for the evening services. Sunny weather, kids out and the bus got bricked

But it's the Luas which gets all the attention in the forum, both green and red

my friend

frankoreagan wrote: »

That's it pretty much. Was far easier to ignore the problem when it was confined to the routes just serving poorer areas. Once it worries middle class folk and tourists it's a crisis and something must be done!

No, 'poorer areas' turn a blind eye to anti social behaviour don't knock others for not tolerating crap.

pappe

I am taking Red Luas since the Saggart line has been opened on a daily basis (which is a few years now) and it has been always very problematic and it is slowly getting worse.
To be completely honest, in the morning the journey has always been safe and pleasant as well, but there is not a single time in my life that I had a journey back home in the afternoon/evening which was pleasant, and it was often unsafe.
I experienced and witnessed most of situations I read in previous comments and it was frightening at times, especially when standing/sitting at the bottom of luas.

I often complained with luas customer care, and I described in all details (time, luas number, stop name) situations I witnessed where passengers have been badly injured or intimidated in a physical way. I used to email them when I felt it was necessary for them to review their CCTV footage because of violent actions. I used to receive standard emails as answers and I want to report an example (within quotes below):

"There are times when a standard fare notice (SFN) is not the solution to the problem. On this occasion these passengers were ejected from the Luas as it was felt this was the best way to deal with the issue. Once ejected they were monitored by CCTV and announcements were made to the stop asking that they leave the infrastructure.

When necessary the Gardai are called. I would like to assure you that we take public order issues very seriously. Luas attends court on a monthly basis for prosecutions for both fare evasion and public order offenses."

In the case above the antisocial people were actually able to step out (after a physical abuse of a passenger ) and step in at next. I was at the stop. No announcement whatsoever. No Gardai.

Eventually I was asked if I wish to talk with some Luas managers because of my frequent emails, and I accepted. I had an hour meeting with two Luas managers. I was told of some solutions they put in place but I have never seen them. To make an example I was told at the meeting that since several months there are ticket inspectors not dressing yellow vests that look like normal passengers. However I always see the same ones with yellow vest even now...not a single time I met them. Therefore I don't really believe to any single point I was told at the meeting.
Also, they strongly believe that Luas is very safe, that vast majority of customers are very happy. I think they felt I was greatly exaggerating.

After years of trying to help luas stuff and spending hours of my time in providing them with information I eventually have an answer: Luas is hopeless, there is no point in complaining whatsoever, safety will never improve. But to me , they fail the top 1 passenger charter which is in their Website and nailed behind every luas driver's cabine: "1. Provide you with a safe and comfortable tram journey.".

syklops

Eventually I was asked if I wish to talk with some Luas managers because of my frequent emails, and I accepted. I had an hour meeting with two Luas managers. I was told of some solutions they put in place but I have never seen them. To make an example I was told at the meeting that since several months there are ticket inspectors not dressing yellow vests that look like normal passengers. However I always see the same ones with yellow vest even now...not a single time I met them. Therefore I don't really believe to any single point I was told at the meeting.

I have seen plain clothes ticket inspectors, however, that was on the usually quiet and safe Gree line.

I heard this as a topic on Joe Duffy today.

Not sure how much it was covered but there was at least one caller on.

That show is probably not indicative of modern Ireland and they've had some embarrassing topics in recent times(MMA being one) but it has the ear of the government when it comes to issues(was the cause of head shops closing) so I think its only positive something like this was highlighted as it seems a pressing issue.

feargale

I use the Red Line from time to time, but only in daytime and only between Heuston and city centre and have never encountered serious problems. Do most or all of these incidents occur at night?

Captain Chaos

feargale wrote: »

I use the Red Line from time to time, but only in daytime and only between Heuston and city centre and have never encountered serious problems. Do most or all of these incidents occur at night?

No, most is in the late afternoon/evening. Once I was on a Luas at 7am and two guys just released from Store Street police station got on, told eveyone they were just released from the cells, demanded seats so they could sleep and the both woke up and started fighting each other over what they told the gards. It was proper punching and kicking with people doing their best to get out of the way.

The Luas driver stopped the tram as the fight got out of had but would not release the doors and people were screaming to get out. Within minutes two garda vans pulled up in front and behind the tram and they surrounded all the doors, the driver released the doors and the gards dragged the two scum bags off. This all happened before the Jervice stop. That was the worst I have ever witnessed.

Other than that I get the aggressive junkie begging every morning and afternoon and they will sit beside you and keep hounding you till you get up and move. Some even follow people around the tram begging for money strung out of their heads. It's getting worse by the month.

Aard

I've never encountered people begging and I've gotten the Luas at all hours of the day in the city centre.

Rakish Paddy

Aard wrote: »

I've never encountered people begging and I've gotten the Luas at all hours of the day in the city centre.

I usually encounter more begging at the ticket machines rather than the trams themselves. Abbey St. and Jervis stops are particularly bad, but I've encountered begging more than once at Smithfield, Museum and Heuston stops too.

Aard

Come to think of it I have seen begging at Heuston in the same manner as Stephen's Green. I wouldn't describe it as particularly bothersome nor out of the ordinary for a city's main transport points. And certainly not isolated to the Red line.

Roosterreid

I've experienced begging, but mainly during the quieter periods... Junkies approaching me from as early as 7:00am right through to the later hours (rush hour isn't such an issue) on the Luas with their cap in hand. To be honest, I have found them pretty harmless for the most part...

The bigger issue for me is the gangs of teenagers that frequent the Red Line... This is particularly prevalent from the Red Cow out to Saggart; most of them get on or off in and around Fettercairn. I have seen them fighting, threaten other passengers, pull out knives and generally act in an intimidating manner. I pay for an annual tax saver ticket but have found myself finding excuses to use the Luas less and less as I don't feel safe.

I believe that it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' something will happen to me on this service.

MrStuffins

Aard wrote: »

I've never encountered people begging and I've gotten the Luas at all hours of the day in the city centre.

There's begging everywhere all over the city but I was very surprised last week when I got on the Luas after work (around 6pm) and a junkie got on and was going from person to person begging.

This was at Stephens Green on the Green line.

Uno my Uno.

I'm about to get on the Red line at Manor Square headed into town, I'll let you know if there is anything kicks off. In the City centre usually all I see though are the various street drinkers greeting each other and trading stories, its a bit like a social event for them sometimes.

Rakish Paddy

MrStuffins wrote: »

There's begging everywhere all over the city but I was very surprised last week when I got on the Luas after work (around 6pm) and a junkie got on and was going from person to person begging.

This was at Stephens Green on the Green line.

Ah, he was obviously so out of it that he got on the wrong Luas line entirely. Probably thought he was on Abbey St.

dd972

Roosterreid wrote: »

I am a daily commuter on the red line Luas, from the Point right to Saggart..... a long journey.

What experiences have people had on this line?

Since Christmas, I have witnessed:

(1) Open drug use
(2) Junkies stoned out of their mind
(3) Junkies begging for money from everyone on the tram
(4) Gangs of youths drinking
(5) A girl getting threatened that she was going to get robbed by some teenagers
(6) Gangs of Eastern European's playing loud music / then starting fights when they get asked to leave
(7) I was physically threatened this morning as I did not give the large polish ape enough room on his seat (I was squished in against the window)

These issues get worse as you pass Belgard.... the "Security Staff" are a total joke and turn a blind eye to all but the most serious issues!

I do feel genuinely uneasy making this daily journey.... but have little option.

What have others experienced?

Since Christmas?, you normally get all that packed into a Jervis to Abbey St one station hop ! :pac::pac:

podgeandrodge

Fail. Regularly not comfortable given the frequency of the walking dead on board bothering other passengers.

Failure of customer charter =

http://www.luas.ie/contact-form.html

Pick heading "complaint".

It's only when we put a complaint in that they will have to address the issue.

scotsbob

Here is an idea that could be copied from the UK. They have Transport Police, so why not here. Maybe the guards could be persuaded to help. Proper law enforcement might just work wonders. Or just give the security guards limited powers of arrest.

David086

MrStuffins wrote: »

There's begging everywhere all over the city but I was very surprised last week when I got on the Luas after work (around 6pm) and a junkie got on and was going from person to person begging.

This was at Stephens Green on the Green line.

Have seen this on both the red and green line (probably the same guy)

Several times I've complained to Luas about the lack of security and I get usual copy and paste spiel about how they're dealing with it when the reality is they're not. I've once witnessed a passenger (who clearly paid for his ticket) refuse to show his ticket to an inspector until he asked the scumbag on board the tram. The ticket inspector clearly avoided the scumbag while he continued to ask every other passenger for their ticket. Sums it up really.

kravmaga

Roosterreid wrote: »

I am a daily commuter on the red line Luas, from the Point right to Saggart..... a long journey.

What experiences have people had on this line?

Since Christmas, I have witnessed:

(1) Open drug use
(2) Junkies stoned out of their mind
(3) Junkies begging for money from everyone on the tram
(4) Gangs of youths drinking
(5) A girl getting threatened that she was going to get robbed by some teenagers
(6) Gangs of Eastern European's playing loud music / then starting fights when they get asked to leave
(7) I was physically threatened this morning as I did not give the large polish ape enough room on his seat (I was squished in against the window)

These issues get worse as you pass Belgard.... the "Security Staff" are a total joke and turn a blind eye to all but the most serious issues!

I do feel genuinely uneasy making this daily journey.... but have little option.

What have others experienced?

This issue has already been raised many times on here previously.

Whats need is a dedicated Transport Police like the UK but the AGS is already under resourced and the transport systems are not policed in this city and the gougers(gou's) know this.

Sorry I see another poster has already mentioned this solution.

http://www.btp.police.uk/

Rakish Paddy

Was anyone else on the tram that went through Smithfield at around 21:20 - 21:25 last night? There was a big row among a gang of 10-15 feral skangers, male and female, at the Abbey St. stop. Oh how my heart sank when the tram arrived and they all got on board to continue the ruckus, roaring, getting into each others faces and shoving each other around the place (the few names I caught during the row were Nidgie, Decco and Rasher!)! A couple of security guys did stick their heads in the door at Jervis, but didn't get on and intervene. It was actually pretty funny, apart from the fact I was worried I'd get caught in the crossfire!

Roosterreid

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Was anyone else on the tram that went through Smithfield at around 21:20 - 21:25 last night? There was a big row among a gang of 10-15 feral skangers, male and female, at the Abbey St. stop. Oh how my heart sank when the tram arrived and they all got on board to continue the ruckus, roaring, getting into each others faces and shoving each other around the place (the few names I caught during the row were Nidgie, Decco and Rasher!)! A couple of security guys did stick their heads in the door at Jervis, but didn't get on and intervene. It was actually pretty funny, apart from the fact I was worried I'd get caught in the crossfire!

Surely having to deal with this goes against the Luas safety charter for passengers?

It appears a typical response from the security staff, that they are not in the least bit interested in actually dealing with issues such as this... issues, which have the potential to escalate pretty quickly into something more serious. I have witnessed the security staff on quite a few occasions turning a blind eye.

I have contacted the Luas again recently about issues such as this and have pointed them to this thread for examples beyond those I have experienced.. Can anyone suggest who else would be useful to contact? National media? Local TD's?

Smiles35

Ah. Leave me red-line alone. If yous had real money yous would be in cars anyway.

5rtytry56

@Noblong

Are you FOR or AGAINST the link up of the red and green lines?

MrStuffins

Noblong wrote: »

Ah. Leave me red-line alone. If yous had real money yous would be in cars anyway.

While you're in thick traffic trying to get to work in the morning, i'm making it from Sandyford to St Stephens Green in 20 minutes.

The Luas is class when it's run properly. The Green Line is an excellent example of how you can have a great service, run efficiently when there is very little chance of the scumbag element trolling the carriages! The problems on the Red Line are societal problems. Luas could deal wit them better of course, but at the end of the day they cant control scumbags and their scumbaggy behaviour!