Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Prime Time 10th March 2015

1246789

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Healy Rae would have been a better choice
    No, just no. If the choice was between the head of Mothers against guns and Healy Rae, I'd chose the head of Mothers against guns as our representative. At least there you'd know you were getting an honest kick in the fork.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I think we might be blowing this pile of RTE crap out of proportion.

    Yes, we were all likened to criminals but I don't think the programme caught the imagination of the public. They would have been far more interested in the other topics on the programme.

    I believe we aren't really much worse off than before.

    All the emails etc. to politicians will be from our side. I can't see Joe Public contacting them in any numbers to ban our guns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 alfr


    Hi,

    New to the forum but have been watching since these proposed amendments were announced, ive signed the petition and put forward a submission (which pales in comparison to those who published theirs here).

    Im a hunter not a target shooter but since the bubble burst (celtic tiger died) ive not been able to afford to take up target shooting but wish to do so in the future (even though the disciplines now compared to when i first thought about target shooting have since been restricted)

    I watched tonights prime time just a few minutes ago (late shift) and im not surprised that its a 2008 hatchet job round 2.

    Personally i dont think that William Egan was the right person for a debate (sitting here in hindsight without the prior details of the show) but he is more than accustomed firearms laws, unfortunately Deputy McGrath is a loud mouth who can only be silenced by another loud mouth with facts/figures which would have never worked even with the best loud mouth for our side as the presenter was bias, plus he probably went into the show without knowing who would represent the anti gun side (turns out he was 2 against 1)

    Rte regardless of what was shown to them had their own agenda once again and as shown on prime time they made the law abiding firearms holder (who imo are vetted more than those in charge of children or people with special needs as well as many other professions) look like the scumbags who who are involved in drugs and gangland killings (imo) whilst using illegal firearms most of which are only allowed to be sold to defense forces/law enforcement


    If im not mistaken it has been asked in the Dail as to how many people have firearms certificates which is yet to be answered (i think) but i believe sparks put the question to Niall Collins to ask the Minister of Justice via the Dail, i have yet to so an official number (maybe i missed it) from the government yet Prime Time quoted the number as been 144,991 which i find hard to believe as when i thought about myself having 3 firearms plus 3 friends the number totaled nearly 25 (target and hunting)

    Can anyone tell me if CS Fergus Healy has been asked why he believes that people are trying to circumvent the law by applying for a .22lr pistol (which they are legally entitled to apply for) because no new applicant is entitled to apply for a CF pistol, it seems (imo) that CS Healy is making it out that those who apply for a .22lr pistol are breaking the law because they cant license a CF pistol (yet the courts have proven the guards wrong on this not to mention other applications)

    Did any of those who represented shooters in front of the Joint Justice Committee know that they were meeting again tomorrow to discuss the proposed amendments?? Or was that kept quiet?

    Im not on twitter but will be tomorrow to call out the trolls and hopefully make those ignorant of the current restrictions/law realise how ignorant they are but chances of anyone anti gun admitting they are wrong is like making a priest believe god doesnt exist even with facts presented to them (not a great analogy but it works)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭garrettod


    No point crying over spilt milk... Egan was the man on TV for whatever reason.
    Sparks wrote: »
    ...Email sent to complaints@rte.ie:

    Nice work. I trust plenty of others here will help ensure that RTE's Complaint's Department will be busy for quite some time to come.
    patsat wrote: »
    What are the chances of something like this ever getting some time on Tonight with Vincent Browne ?

    Good question.

    If anything was going to be done, it would have to be fairly quickly though, while the item is still "news worthy" and there's fresh information to be presented to viewers.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 471 ✭✭badaj0z


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I think we might be blowing this pile of RTE crap out of proportion.

    Yes, we were all likened to criminals but I don't think the programme caught the imagination of the public. They would have been far more interested in the other topics on the programme.

    I believe we aren't really much worse off than before.

    All the emails etc. to politicians will be from our side. I can't see Joe Public contacting them in any numbers to ban our guns.

    I totally agree with this. The public at large would have taken very little notice of this programme. There was nothing in it to affect most people and it was not interesting to watch. The only possible downside is if the AGS/GS think that it has had an effect and feel bolder because of this.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7 B412


    I feel after last nights proformance by Egan we might as well put our hand in the air, he is NOT the man for the job


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Sent to complaints@rte.ie;

    Sir/ Madam

    I was very upset by your report on proposed new firearms legislation last night, which portrayed people like myself – licensed firearm holders – as potential rampage murderers, despite my having undergone substantial background checks, provided character referees, access to my personal medical record and agreed to access to my home at any time by Gardai and also having committed no criminal offences whatsoever.

    The programme contained a piece with Superintendent Fergus Healy, who was allowed mention his fear of a gun culture emerging, while demonstrating handguns which can no longer be licensed by new applicants under 2008 legislation. The only handgun in the piece which can be licensed today by a new applicant was the one Superintendent Healy “approved”. This clearly presented a biased impression of gun ownership.

    The report also failed to mention the origination of the proposed ban, which came only after a large number of court cases were lost by Gardai regarding firearms licensing following 2009 legislation born out of round table agreement between stakeholders, greatly strengthening applicant suitability and firearms storage regulation.

    The report indulged in scaremongering around gun murders – citing a firearm stolen in ROI used in the murder of the Corbally brothers, which is in dispute1 – despite a background of multiple-year falls in gun crime2, gun seizures3 and a 50% reduction in thefts of legal firearms between 2010-2013 according to CSO statistics.

    1. http://www.sportscoalition.org/kildare-radio-interview-512015/
    2. http://www.thejournal.ie/frances-fitzgerald-garda-commissioner-1522872-Jun2014/
    3. http://www.thejournal.ie/firearms-seized-1583874-Jul2014/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,086 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sparks wrote: »
    You might be giving people too much credit - when the Prime Time producer called me back in February, I told her right at the start about those complaints. She didn't even know about them.

    You problay ended up talking to some jobs bridge intern dogsbody researcher who is 9th gen in that position.But that's the nature of the beast too,destroy people and Iives and move onto the next victims and newsworthy event.Only thing they will remember is the one that gets people fired Or the massive lawsuits.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,086 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sparks wrote: »
    No, just no. If the choice was between the head of Mothers against guns and Healy Rae, I'd chose the head of Mothers against guns as our representative. At least there you'd know you were getting an honest kick in the fork.

    I meant that you don't send a cute little toy dog to a pit bull dogfight.Egans home is the court room not a bear pit that is a TV studio debate.What was needed there was somweone just a s mouthy and vicious and well up to the media tactics someone like Healey Rae.Someone who wouldn't have thought twice to kick me grath in the nuts about his hypocrisy on smoking lecturing about gun bans.Use the right tool for the job.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭oldtart


    Predictably predictable outcome. I even cringed myself seeing the deer jumping three feet into the air. Why the feck did the deer men let them film that?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Healey Rae would have been able to prevent Finian running away with the show, problem is, not able to stop his own showmanship/mouth running away, either.
    A few remarks about how rural dwellers should be allowed drive home with 3 or 4 pints, and credibility would be blown.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    oldtart wrote: »
    Predictably predictable outcome. I even cringed myself seeing the deer jumping three feet into the air. Why the feck did the deer men let them film that?

    Because that's real life like it or not.Public won't really give a dam about that programme they probably forgot most of it by the time the rape case was finished and they will just move on to the next scandal next week.The biggest problem is someone like finian mc grath being on that comitee he is totally biased , the prick knew the facts but still peddles lies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Healey Rae would have been able to prevent Finian running away with the show, problem is, not able to stop his own showmanship/mouth running away, either.

    We need need another mouthpiece there talking over him and putting him down he had it to handy ,golden gee was was totally biased as well


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭tomtucker81


    Is the programme on you tube yet?
    I can't watch the rte player on my phone and i want to see it again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I think we might be blowing this pile of RTE crap out of proportion.
    It's a sounding board for public opinion. The Minister doesn't see a negative reaction to last night, it might influence her decision, make her think that a ban has no negative side effects in terms of votes. Likewise for the independent TDs looking at the next election but with a more pronounced effect as they don't have a party whip restraining them from changing positions quickly. If the public looked at last night and went "meh" and we're complaining loudly about it through the appropriate channels and to our TDs and in public, that will be noticed and would be beneficial in the long term.

    Mind you, some loud shouty eejit goes off on one and he or she will wind up doing more harm than good, so civility is still required. Just sayin'...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    Complaint sent - above all else, the blantently, intentionally, biased nature of the whole thing shocks me (and I was expecting it to be bad!) - it's every bit as bad as anything you'd see in the Star or similar. How can people be expected to believe anything that comes out of any RTE media after that??? (not that I placed much weight on it to begin with but my GOD!!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭knockon


    complaints@rte.ie

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I wish to make a complaint about Prime Time on Tuesday March 10th. The programme was poorly researched, lacked any investigative reporting and was delivered in an absolute biased manner by the reporter and studio anchor. I will explain why.

    Reporting

    The programme was titled "Guns In Ireland" never reported on the fact Ireland has the strictest gun ownership in the EU. Barry Cummins saw it fit not to mention the licensing process for Target Shooters and the extensive application form we have to fill out to satisfy An Garda Siochana. He seemed to be in awe of Chief Superintendent Healy and did not even to challenge his remarks.
    The programme immediately linked licensed firearm ownership by law abiding citizens with criminals and thugs using illegal firearms and individuals using firearms who are not permitted to do so. Placing a distressed Mrs Cambell on the murder of her Son, Anthony by criminals in the same programme was noting short of sensationalism on the part of the programme makers. There is no link between licensed sporting firearms and criminality.

    Studio

    Miriam O Callaghan was completely biased in her delivery and interaction with Mr Egan. and did not permit equal time and equal opportunity
    for both interviewed guests to make their case, with Deputy McGrath
    being allowed to ignore the host and speak over Mr.Egan on several
    occasions for a significant period of time. Mc Grath was allowed to bulldoze both O Callaghan and Mr Egan with ease and talking incessantly with unfounded statements.

    Research

    I personally emailed the Deputy Editor, Paul Ferris on Monday March 9th and informed of the following.....

    Dear Paul,

    Please excuse me for writing to you again. I understand that the feature on firearms licensing takes place on Tuesday night. I assume that you are in possession of critical information supplied on Tuesday 3rd March by Minister Francis Fitzgerald in reply to Dail Questions by Deputy Niall Collins. The data she supplied to the Dail is the PULSE information supplied by AGS and is a list of Firearms stolen between 2010 and 2014. In regard to the figure of approximately 1700 firearms that were listed by the Gardai as having been stolen from 2010 to 2014 raised interesting written questions in the Dail on Tuesday this week, which saw an info dump of raw data from PULSE regarding the figures. Here's the breakdown.


    The breakdown which transpired upon the release of the raw data by the Minister in the Dail on March 3 to include hundreds of items which are not legally firearms in Ireland. In other words the whole basis for the proposed ban is based on these incorrect data figures by An Garda Siochana. Despite Mr Ferris having this critical information it was not delivered on this the leading investigative current affairs programme in the State.

    I am absolutely incensed at the treatment of law abiding sport people and how the Prime Time programme represented the story without few facts by RTE and intend to make a formal complaint to the BAI. Based on the programmes previous indiscretions and fines by the BAI one would have assumed that a report of this nature would have been properly researched and delivered.

    Yours sincerely,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Today's media littered with IRA sex abuse and inadvertent temporary legalisation of drugs.

    Saw nothing about firearms licensing.

    We need to keep pressing our case in this vacuum.

    well done to rte complainants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭knockon


    extremetaz wrote: »
    Complaint sent - above all else, the blantently, intentionally, biased nature of the whole thing shocks me (and I was expecting it to be bad!) - it's every bit as bad as anything you'd see in the Star or similar. How can people be expected to believe anything that comes out of any RTE media after that??? (not that I placed much weight on it to begin with but my GOD!!)

    I agree with you. It was terrible top watch. The piece was appalling in research, delivery and presentation. The deer shoot was a nothing for want of better words. Mick Topes interview was shredded to pieces by all accounts. Not enough range "time" and absolutely no look at the licensing process. Then have Pinocchio in the Phoenix Park giving out the drivel and lies that he has been quite accustomed to without any question or "hold on, aren't you the guys that issue licenses?" from Cummins. Then the studio "debate" was disgraceful. Miriam O Callaghan allowed McGrath to chatter away. We needed a shouter there last night to call McGrath a grandstander and demand to be heard and keep talking. We did not have the right guy there. He should not have accepted the invitation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Did I imagine it or did Healy say that criminals are only using a pool of 25 guns. ???


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    hexosan wrote: »
    Did I imagine it or did Healy say that criminals are only using a pool of 25 guns. ???

    Yes, those were his exact words. Finian didn't explain who the hell has the other 149,975 illegally held guns.........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Yes, those were his exact words. Finian didn't explain who the hell has the other 149,975 illegally held guns.........

    So basically that not even one gun per county. They cant tell how many illegal firearms are out there, they cant say if stolen firearms have been used in crime but he can say with all certainty that all the criminal in the country are sharing only 25 guns to commit all their murders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrbrianj


    Is CS Healy a member of the IOC?

    His definition of "Olympic Standard" and the Olympics definition are completely different.

    Maybe he should stop telling fibs to Oireachtas committees and RTE reports and go out a catch the criminals using guns - there is only a pool of 25 of them after all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Yes, those were his exact words. Finian didn't explain who the hell has the other 149,975 illegally held guns.........

    Again with the 150,000 figure which only shows up once in one appendix to the Small Arms Report 2007, with no reason given there for its selection, and which scares the bejaysus out of Joe Public who thinks it's a real number.

    Yeesh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    hexosan wrote: »
    So basically that not even one gun per county. They cant tell how many illegal firearms are out there, they cant say if stolen firearms have been used in crime but he can say with all certainty that all the criminal in the country are sharing only 25 guns to commit all their murders.

    well, probably those 25 guns the Garda mentioned, are the one's Paul Williams claims are held by criminals acting as "Armourers", who hire them out at a daily rate to other criminals.
    If the Gardaí know these guns, and they obviously know the core group of criminals, its a disgrace that rather than intensify their efforts to locate and remove them from circulation, they choose to go on a campaign to limit legally held and licenced sporting guns.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    mrbrianj wrote: »
    Is CS Healy a member of the IOC?
    His definition of "Olympic Standard" and the Olympics definition are completely different.
    He'd have to be ISSF-qualified, not IOC-qualified (the IOC delegates the individual sports stuff for the Games to the international governing bodies, in this case the ISSF).
    (And he's not, there's only a few of us in Ireland with ISSF judges licences and he is most certainly not one of them).

    (And did I mention six times already as an ISSF judge that he's wrong?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    If the Gardaí know these guns, and they obviously know the core group of criminals, its a disgrace that rather than intensify their efforts to locate and remove them from circulation, they choose to go on a campaign to limit legally held and licenced sporting guns.

    Campaigns cost money.
    And politicians have been cutting the Garda budget, freezing recruitment, closing stations, slashing training budgets and hobbling them for the last few years in the name of Austerity.
    I'm not happy with last night (well, duh), but I still blame the Dail for gun crime more than I blame the Gardai.

    Which is probably why TDs like McGrath so annoy me by standing up and claiming it's someone else's fault...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,086 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The AGS have hauled in alot more in the still ongoing Operation Anvil which is seemingly still well funded,so 25 exrea guns in this criminal pool should be not much of a problem.

    I get a feeling there is a whole lot more explaining going to be needed from Primetime as to why there were two such mismatched opponents...The more I think about this it makes no sense as to objectivity.Mr Shouty Vs Mr intellectual facts and figure man is more American chat show zoo TV.Not somthing a "respectable" political programme would engage in??[EG] Hayley Rae Vs Mc Grath would make more sense for "entertainment",as heard on a radio interview awhile ago but not for serious discussion.
    Was there someone else supposed to meet Egan on an intellectual and statistical level and couldnt make it and they pulled in Mc Grath as next option????:confused:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,086 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    .The biggest problem is someone like finian mc grath being on that comitee he is totally biased , the prick knew the facts but still peddles lies.

    And that can,belive it or not work to our favour too.We can say if this report comes out that he had an undue influence on it and was a pronounced anti gun/hunter bigot from the word go and should never have been on the comittee either as his views were slanted from the word go,same as if there was an utter pro gun TD /Senator [a UnicornI know ] there as well.This comittee is supposed to be impartial and consider facts and come up with a reasoned submission,which if the scuttlebutt and partial statement paragraph on the subject from Des Crofton in this months ISD is to be belived they are willing to find a compromise solution,but the AGS are just digging in like donkeys and saying "NO its our way or no way at all."

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    There's no rule about committee members being pro or anti a topic; just so long as the committee itself is fair overall. So if some are pro and some anti, that's no big deal.

    It's when McGrath brings up a statistic on air that he was told was wrong last week, and when the show doesn't correct him even though they were told last week, that there's an unfair bias at work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,086 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    01 2083111 You can phone in too and give out about it too in the nicest possible way;)
    Pass it on to at least three other shooters and this will take legs as well.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,086 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    From the facebook NARGC page.

    Prime Time Programme on Firearms Proposals
    There has been much comment about last night’s Prime Time Programme and I wish to thank the very many people who have sent and published messages of support.
    Notwithstanding, some have asked why I was not on the programme in the studio discussion. The answer to this is straightforward. I was at all times available and ready to travel to RTE in Donnybrook, but the programme makers told me the evening before that, as the Gardai were not putting forward a spokesperson for the studio discussion and relying on the recorded interview with CS Healy, it would not be appropriate to have a spokesperson from the “other side” either as the “other side” was also being included by way of recorded interview. And so they opted for two people who would have opposing views on the matter but not directly representative of the two sides.
    What followed in the programme should be quite obvious to anyone who watched it. The footage was heavily edited, particularly the interviews. There was a recorded ten minute interview with me and a further ten minute recorded interview with Michael Tope. What was broadcast was approximately 10 seconds of each. There was an excellent interview recorded with Paul Walsh on the mountain which was not broadcast at all. The very reason and basis for the request from the Oireachtas Press Office to have the Prime Time broadcast unit along was to cover the visit of the Justice Committee to Harbour House and do an interview with the Committee’s Chair. None of his interview was broadcast either.
    The entire programme was heavily biased towards criminal use of firearms and no attempt was made to broadcast the material which they had from us which would have brought balance to the discussion. Set against that background there was then a studio discussion in which Deputy Finnian McGrath was allowed to persistently talk over William Egan and where Miriam O’Callaghan would not allow William to address the very basis on which the current proposals are based – the false statistics on stolen forearms published by the Gardai - while allowing Deputy McGrath quote them liberally. She said the statistics would “bamboozle” everyone! How insulting to the viewing audience! The entire discussion for such a complex and sometimes emotive subject was afforded just over 7.5 minutes. William Egan has nothing to prove in terms of his commitment and expertise in defending shooting. His track record speaks for itself. He was simply prevented from making his points by the discussion moderator.
    The programme, despite the producers having all and sufficient data and material given to them, was unbalanced, biased and trivialised by virtue of not what it addressed, but what it did not. A third party has lodged a formal and detailed complaint about the programme.
    We have a clear objective and strategy in relation to the current proposals from which I have no intention of being deflected and we are progressing that strategy today as planned. Comments to public representatives are now even more important.
    Des Crofton
    National Director
    NARGC
    &
    Spokesperson for the Sports Coalition.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    A third party has lodged a formal and detailed complaint about the programme.
    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    It's nice to see the explanation.
    It'd have been nicer if he'd just said "look lads, we made a mistake. It was a high risk idea but we thought that if it worked it would be worth it; we were wrong, it didn't, we're trying to deal with it now. Sorry."


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 loftypheasant


    That was some disgrace last night to add to a litany of disgraces.
    My twopence worth sent to the BAI and RTE's complaints for all the good it'll do:

    Dear Sir/Madam,
    I write to complain about the biased, cheap, tabloid nature of RTE's Primetime's report on firearms licensing on last night, the 10th of March 2015. It was one-sided as it strove to blur the lines between licensed, legal sporting and hunting activity and, so called, 'gangland' murders and mass shootings in other countries (where failures by the police resulted in unstable people being licensed; a fact not mentioned in the report) . The interviews and report were emotive coupled with menacing music and sound effects in the background.
    The report fatuously suggests that any unsolved gun murders may have been carried out with stolen, previously legally held firearms. This is extremely unlikely considering the small numbers of the relevant firearms which have been officially reported stolen and the large quantity which are known to be illegally imported and those that remain from 'the Troubles', etc. The veracity of Garda/Dept. of Justice figures which were used in the piece has been undermined only recently in the Dail when the Minister for Justice had to concede that of ~1700 reported firearms thefts recorded by the Gardai in recent times that ~600 of these could not actually be defined as firearms. (such as gunsafes, airsoft toy guns, etc.) This very pertinent, recently revealed, information was excluded from the report.
    In the interview, Deputy McGrath uses the same, incorrect and purposely misleading, figure in his ill informed, emotive rant about firearms. Mr Egan attempted to address these false figures but was not afforded the opportunity to do so as Ms. O Callaghan warned him not to 'bamboozle viewers with figures' (the correct figures in this case!) Ms. O Callaghan allowed Deputy McGrath to dominate the interview and she also used an emotive and biased line of questioning for Mr. Egan. Ms. O Callaghan did not give him sufficient time to answer her 'questions' and allowed to Deputy McGrath to interject and talk over Mr. Egan thus rendering the interview completely one sided, as was probably intended judging by the overall tone of the piece.
    There was no mention in the report of how we compare to other European countries in relation to licensed firearms. Only the UK is mentioned (where handguns are still licensed for humane dispatch of animals, not banned outright as reported in the piece) There was no coverage given to the round table agreements made, in recent years, between the Minister for Justice, the Dept. of Justice and the Gardai and the sport shooting stakeholders, agreements which the Gardai have since reneged on, which is why they have been beaten in court so many times on firearms licensing issues. There was no mention made of the attempt by the relevant Dept of Justice/Garda Working Group (of which Chief Superintendent Fergus Healy, interviewed in the report, is a senior member) to hold a 'pretend' consultation process before introducing draconian reforms to firearms licensing which are out of line with other EU countries. None of these important facts were mentioned in the report. I assume many of the sportspeople interviewed by Mr. Cummins informed him of these facts but they were edited out.
    If this is the best that RTE can do in covering such an important issue it makes me question the value of my licence fee.
    The way in which law abiding sportspeople have been treated by the State in recent years is disgraceful. If any other minority were treated in such a way there would be uproar. It is a shame that a 'factual' news programme cannot shed at least some light on the plight of the sporting shooter and look at any real or perceived public safety concerns in a rational manner based on the facts.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    01 2083111 You can phone in too and give out about it too in the nicest possible way;)
    Pass it on to at least three other shooters and this will take legs as well.

    A nice lady logged my complaint, which generally followed my email complaint

    #158

    Thanks, Griz.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    https://twitter.com/Finianmcgrathtd/status/575652385143590912
    Wow! After @RTE_PrimeTime some of the gun lobby nasty. Less guns, safer society. Get it!

    You'd almost think he was trolling for a response so he could go to the papers and say someone was threatening him...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭bpb101


    Sparks wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Finianmcgrathtd/status/575652385143590912



    You'd almost think he was trolling for a response so he could go to the papers and say someone was threatening him...


    jayus , isen't finian an awful tool

    I think nargc, icpsa and the rest of the ngb should demand air time(for live events) the same way as boxing, swimming , gaa and football get airtime. Never on during the Olympics either


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    If only we had a system of government where people had to produce actual solid evidence to justify their cushy positions and salaries or grants.

    Instead, anyone who tries to challenge fictional numbers is told to shut up.
    Less guns, safer society
    <--- Prove it.

    Wouldn't you love to see someone being taken to court next year for nonpayment of the TV Tax, and telling the judge "Yes Justice, I'm happy to pay for proper Public Service Broadcasting, but not for RTE because they're utterly crap.". But that choice is being taken away too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Sparks wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Finianmcgrathtd/status/575652385143590912



    You'd almost think he was trolling for a response so he could go to the papers and say someone was threatening him...

    That'll be me.

    Just informed him that his EX party colleagues Sen John Whelan, Jack Wall and Emmet Stagg just love him. hear they are inundated by the gun lobby.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    I just submitted a form to RTE's Public Service Statement process. I gave them socks, mostly about growing a spine. I was polite, but rather uncomplimentary. Who knows, maybe it'll prick someone's professional pride. We can but hope.

    http://www.rte.ie/about/en/serving-our-audience/2015/0306/685100-rte-public-service-statement/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Sparks wrote: »

    Guy on broadsheet says over 300 complaints gone to RTE over PT gun report. Well, I learned that there are over 144,000 licensed firearms holders in Ireland. Maybe I should write in to say thanks?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From the WDAI facebook page:
    Since the RTE Prime Time programme aired last night, we have been inundated with complaints from the general public regarding the representation of deer stalking during the programme not to mention the lack of respect shown for the animals culled. Our Association had NO involvement in this item and in fact requested the removal of any reference to deer stalking, our request was ignored. Our request for clarification, that deer stalking was not be impacted by the review of firearm licensing was included.

    As the national representative body for deer stalking, we are never found wanting in promoting deer stalking and the need for deer management on all mediums, including TV and Radio. However to include a 30 second clip of a Sika hind chest shot along with a calf, then gralloched and dragged past the camera, while shown in the same programme where victims of gun crime are interviewed, is not a balanced or a fair representation of deer stalking.

    If the programme was about deer stalking, some of the footage may have been appropriate, but it wasn’t, and in the context of a programme that should have won the hearts and minds of the general public and politicians, it was reckless. Any concerns that content maybe edited or represented in a slanted way would have been known in advance by those who took part in the programme and thus the inclusion of deer stalking should have been avoided.

    We have other concerns regarding the balance and fairness of this programme. However our focus now should be on supporting our competition target shooting colleagues, who represented themselves very well in the programme, and now need our support more than ever.
    WDAI


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Nice lighting and framing by Prime Time. You can hardly tell it's an airsoft toy until you grab a screenshot and then raise the lighting in photoshop to see it clearly.

    PrimeTimeLighting150310.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    01 2083111 You can phone in too and give out about it too in the nicest possible way;)
    Pass it on to at least three other shooters and this will take legs as well.

    That's not a complaint line, its a Comment line. At least that's what I was just informed by the lady in RTE. All complaints must be by letter or email, she advises.
    Left a detailed comment, which she typed up.( or at least, she was typing as I spoke)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sparks wrote: »
    Nice lighting and framing by Prime Time. You can hardly tell it's an airsoft toy until you grab a screenshot and then raise the lighting in photoshop to see it clearly.

    PrimeTimeLighting150310.png

    A Dan wessson Co2 airsoft


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Gatling wrote: »
    A Dan wessson Co2 airsoft
    I wonder if someone was hoping people might read that as Smith&Wesson? :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sparks wrote: »
    I wonder if someone was hoping people might read that as Smith&Wesson? :D

    Yeah it happens alot with airsofters .

    Well technically it's part of the Cz USA family but it's still airsoft that uses fake plastic shells you load bbs into you can get a revolver type speed loader for them.

    Thank god that wasnt shown lol


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Get the feeling that the WDAI still see all of this as nothing to do with them but that they're helping out for the benefit of target shooters alone. You can see it in the statement there and I noticed it creeping in last night in the FB comments on their page.

    Their tune will soon change if these proposals go through and their members start getting their 'high powered sniper rifles' refused.

    The message that it effects everyone doesn't really seem to have gotten across to everyone. The Gardai are out for everyone's blood with this, if they get the nod to issue refusals because they think there are too many firearms in a district some supers will be refusing everything that moves. Some people seek to think that because their super issued the licence they have now that they'll be fine, they might be...at least until they get a new super and then the die will be cast again.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement