Prime Time 10th March 2015

jamo27

Sparks wrote: »

Yup.
Think of it this way - the large magazine size isn't illegal, it just pushes a firearm into the restricted category. Centerfire semiautos are already in the restricted category, so it doesn't matter.

:-) I stand corrected sir! Well whatever it is its in the fire position with the safety off, wouldn't you think the boys would know better!

Cass

Same with the pistols. All slides are closed and no breach flag. Unsafe manner to leave a firearm.

patsat

Sparks wrote: »

Yup.
Think of it this way - the large magazine size isn't illegal, it just pushes a firearm into the restricted category. Centerfire semiautos are already in the restricted category, so it doesn't matter.

Are you sure about this Sparks??

I was pretty sure there was no restrictions on the magazine capacity of any centre fire rifle.

A 30 round magazine on a centre fire bolt rifle wouldn't be restricted.

Sparks

jamo27 wrote: »

wouldn't you think the boys would know better!

Honestly? No. But I wouldn't expect them to either, there's a reason that the safety training courses are run by target shooters and hunters.

(The reason, for anyone reading this from the outside, is that Police and Army training with firearms is based on shooting people, which is not something you want to use as a standard with civilian firearms ownership)

Melodeon

Cass wrote: »

Same with the pistols. All slides are closed and no breach flag. Unsafe manner to leave a firearm.

It's okay, Fergus and the lads are professionals:

Sparks

patsat wrote: »

Are you sure about this Sparks??
I was pretty sure there was no restrictions on the magazine capacity of any centre fire rifle.

Ha! Yes, you're right. c(i) on the original restricted SI.

bravestar

It look like a legit ar15 to me, forward assist etc which I don't think the 10/22 pimped up have. You can see the bolt carrier with the dust cover down. Usually that's where little cogs and gears are on airsoft guns. The rest of the gear looks legit as do the magazines which can often be plastic.

meathstevie

I'm missing a fire selection lever where I'd expect it on an AR or 416 or similar, the mags look like standard NATO mags from a distance but I can't really see the retention notch in them. They're kind of attached the wrong way around as well. I would have the spare mag sitting away from the ejection port anyway.

Grizzly 45

crusier wrote: »

That modified weapon that was legally licensed and was similar to a weapon linked to the Norwegian massacre was the most damming piece of footage than any argument either spokesperson put up, that's what will sway public opinion!

Errr NO! Brevick used a "modified " Mini 14 whicjh is a do it all type hunting rifle.After he went off to the Czech Republic[much known for liberal gun laws ,but not stupidity!] and tried there and in Bulgaria to aquire a full auto aK47.
So aGAIN the presentation and allusion to such is again plainly wrong!

BTW this is the SAME rifle they passed around in the photos in their little bookeen to the comittee in Dec!I and another poster here got to see this pic in person and neither of us could say whether it was a select fire assault rifle or a tricked up semi auto because the way it was photographed you cant see the fire selector/saftey switch.Now the TWO big questions I have is simply [1] If it was a legally liscensed firearm,wTF is it doing in Garda custody?? and [2]As it would be restricted it is utterly irrevelant if you hang a machete,a searchlight,a 100 drum off it and the kitchen sink.So why are they making out it is assembled from "parts"? A lot of clarification is needed here,and I'm amazed thy didnt go and dig out the second SPAS15 in Ireland from the ballistics section and claim that because one is liscensed here those SPAS15s are easily liscenseable here too?? This was just another Garda scare tactic along with the evidence locker handguns on the table and the appalingly BAD firearms handling by CS Healy waving the Glock[as usual ] around.

black powder colt

Overall i thought it was going to be way worse

clawback07

black powder colt wrote: »

Overall i thought it was going to be way worse

Over all it was the most disjointed ,forgettable clusterf###k piece of gutter journalism one could ask for . At this point in time it's getting a postmortem which it doesn't really merit.

meathstevie

After all is said and done folks it's only just another shoddy RTE attempt at a current affairs show brought to you by the people who think a round robin of interviewing the same clampets for each other's so called talk shows makes great television.

A parliamentary decission it is most definitely not.

OzCam

Something well dodgy about that "M4". Not only is the flip-up sight in the wrong place (in front of the ACOG), but it doesn't work with that front sight at all. And the ACOG is so far back it'll poke you in the eye if you try to get a cheek weld. Aren't red dot optics supposed to be as far forward as is comfortable?

Whisper it: Is it possible the gun was dressed up for the telly? By someone who didn't know what they were doing?

Deadly Black Rails!
Deadly Tan Rail Covers!!
Deadly Black Flashlights!!!
Deadly Black Clips Magazines!!!!
And that GripPod looks a bit scary too.

Grizzly 45

Its genuine and the same one in the pics alright.Someone spent alot of cash on this gun. Over a thousand euros in add on bits with the sight if they are genuine parts

ACOG scope[or airsoft copy?]
Magpul Flip up rear BUIS sight [or Chinese copy?]
Magpul rear pistol grip [or airsoft copy?]
Magpul mag quick mag change assist tab[black rubbery yoke on the bottom of the mag [or copy]
Daniel Defence[?] forward quad rail About 350 USD for the real Mc Coy
Non standard rear C.A.R style telescoping buttstock.Could be Magpul again or a host of other makers or [airsoft copy]
Stream light flashlight and mount,
C mag clamp for holding the mags together
Intrestingly an Ambidex bolt release! [The little metal tab you can see in the upper part of the trigger gaurd!] They arent that new to the market[last 4 years or so]

Cant see any lower reciver markings as the pic isnt sharp enough.
Its customised and it would certainly have stuck in my mind if I had seen it on any of the ranges and I've never seen it around and being a big AR fan we arent that many out there we would recognise it,and slagg whoever owned it for having a vast amount of useless junk on his rifle unless he is expecting a Zombie apocalypse.
So begs the question...Who owned it,and why isit in Garda custody?

crusier

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Its genuine and the same one in the pics alright.Someone spent alot of cash on this gun. Over a thousand euros in add on bits with the sight if they are genuine parts

ACOG scope[or airsoft copy?]
Magpul Flip up rear BUIS sight [or Chinkie copy?]
Magpul rear pistol grip [or airsoft copy?]
Magpul mag quick mag change assist tab[black rubbery yoke on the bottom of the mag [or copy]
Daniel Defence[?] forward quad rail About 350 USD for the real Mc Coy
Non standard rear C.A.R style telescoping buttstock.Could be Magpul again or a host of other makers or [airsoft copy]
Stream light flashlight and mount,
C mag clamp for holding the mags together
Intrestingly an Ambidex bolt release! [The little metal tab you can see in the upper part of the trigger gaurd!] They arent that new to the market[last 4 years or so]

Cant see any lower reciver markings as the pic isnt sharp enough.
Its customised and it would certainly have stuck in my mind if I had seen it on any of the ranges and I've never seen it around and being a big AR fan we arent that many out there we would recognise it,and slagg whoever owned it for having a vast amount of useless junk on his rifle unless he is expecting a Zombie apocalypse.
So begs the question...Who owned it,and why isit in Garda custody?

You sound like Finan McGrath asking questions like that!

Grizzly 45

OzCam wrote: »

Something well dodgy about that "M4". Not only is the flip-up sight in the wrong place (in front of the ACOG), but it doesn't work with that front sight at all. And the ACOG is so far back it'll poke you in the eye if you try to get a cheek weld. Aren't red dot optics supposed to be as far forward as is comfortable?

Not necessarily, Those kind of sights are supposed to be heads up sights .IOW both eyes open and your eye focuses instantly on the reticle with a panoramic view then of the surrounding area,if that makes sense.So that varies with each shooter.Som put them way forward ,other mid point and others very close,but it must interfere with the charging latch operation[That flat bit of metal under the ACOG sight base in the extreme rear of the gun].WHY he put a BIUS sight on it is beyond me as the ACOG is a battle tested soilder proof scope sight that is virtually indestructable in its own right and the BIUS is for emergency use ,which means you would have to dump the ACOG if it was inoperative.Not a biggie,its got" big knobs to twist to get it off":P..BUT IT WILL NOT WORK with the standard forward foresight on that rifle[Thats the trianglely bit on the barrel above the torch.]
That foresight is under a vital bit called the gas port block and for BIUS sights to work you need a front sight and a low profile gas port block too.
So yes you are on the money ther Oz.:D
Other thing is the ACOG is raised too by the custom forearm,so their cheek weld must be all to Hell off that stock to get proper target sight.Either that or they have a huge head!:pac:

Smell a bit of "Waltism" or Mall Ninja on whoever put this package together.

Grizzly 45

Trouble is Comrade Mc Grath wouldnt know WTF 1% of what I said there actually means.

OzCam

Anyone silly enough to put airsoft replica parts on a real rifle is in for some very nasty surprises.

There are good reasons that our accessories are 1/2 to 1/10th the price of the real thing, mainly that they won't handle the recoil from a real round. Rail covers and backup sights might be ok, except for the slagging you'd get when found out. But optics and stocks? No way. They're just not built for it.

I noticed that foreend/rail too. Not too common, not even in airsoft.

Grizzly 45

Dunno about the optics OZ.I'm using a 45 euro copy of a 300 euro Doctor Optics holosight on my 9mm and it does the job just as well at that..The CAR stock is just a hunk of fancy plastic and a non load bearing or critical part to the guns operation.It just sits on the buffer tube,and can be swopped out[.So long as they arent using THAT critical part from an airsoft:eek:]

crusier

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Trouble is Comrade Mc Grath wouldnt know WTF 1% of what I said there actually means.

He dosent need to, big gun, loads bullets, all the accessories and linked to a massacre! Joe has enough info!

OzCam

I'm an AUG guy. Buffer tubes wouldn't be something I'd naturally think of

grassroot1

If we apply Fenian's logic do we have to take the guns off the army? you know just incase they go on a rampage

outdoors247

How come the gaurd didn't mention that's a straight pull bolt action instead he made it seem like it was semi auto like the m14 that anders brevic fella used misinformation to suit there needs

patsat

outdoors247 wrote: »

How come the gaurd didn't mention that's a straight pull bolt action instead he made it seem like it was semi auto like the m14 that anders brevic fella used misinformation to suit there needs

Is it a straight pull??

outdoors247

Well if it was legal in Ireland it was or am I wrong in thinking semi auto 223s are illegal ?

outdoors247

Just read back through the thread I wasn't aware semi 223s are legal how long has that been around ?

patsat

outdoors247 wrote: »

Just read back through the thread I wasn't aware semi 223s are legal how long has that been around ?

For as long as I can remember but sher I'm only a young fella!

Legal, but restricted and usually take a court case to get.

outdoors247

Aright I haven't shot in about 7 or8 years the last time I seen a 223 m16 style was a straight pull with a 10 round mag so I thought it was still the same

outdoors247

And ither way if they are that worried about gun crime why aren't all guards armed in fairness a lot of guarda stations couldn't stop a fella on a rampage with a black widow and a few hundred ball bearings ha ha ha And maybe closing down rural stations gave an increase in legal guns being stolen

Nekarsulm

Closing local rural stations may actually have caused a drop in reported crimes. If so, the strategy would be seen to be working !

outdoors247

Who wouldent report there gun being robbed ?

crusier

outdoors247 wrote: »

And ither way if they are that worried about gun crime why aren't all guards armed in fairness a lot of guarda stations couldn't stop a fella on a rampage with a black widow and a few hundred ball bearings ha ha ha And maybe closing down rural stations gave an increase in legal guns being stolen

That was soooooo funny!

Nekarsulm

outdoors247 wrote: »

Who wouldent report there gun being robbed ?

Not talking about something as serious as that. Smaller stuff. When you go twice a d find the station shut, and the Green Man connects you to someplace 15 miles away the first game, a d some ere 10 miles away in the opposite direction the next time, you shrug and say "feck it" I have the price off it spent running looking for a Guard"

Grizzly 45

crusier wrote: »

He dosent need to, big gun, loads bullets, all the accessories and linked to a massacre! Joe has enough info!

And thats why he sounded like an utter Mong on Primetime....:rolleyes:
Made his constituency sound like east LA with teen gang bangers stealin guns to pop a cap in thier oppos asses down in da "hood!:rolleyes::rolleyes: If i was in his constituency and I heard my Rep talking about it as a high crime gun ridden area,i'd be questioning has this guy really got my best intrests and his constituency at heart,if he is slagging it that much???

Aright I haven't shot in about 7 or8 years the last time I seen a 223 m16 style was a straight pull with a 10 round mag so I thought it was still the same

It is and you can get either versions,but just be prepared to fight for them!!Proably less fpr the straight pull,because the "Idonlikedelookodat now " clause is and has been proven to be very weak and defeatable as there is no definition in the Irish firearms law as to what a definition of an "assault rifle " actually is...Could say a bolt action is an assault rifle because 100 years ago today German and British troops were "assaulting " each other with them in the trenches.

outdoors247

Very good point if they get rid of 1 they won't stop until all legal guns are gone

alfr

outdoors247 wrote: »

Very good point if they get rid of 1 they won't stop until all legal guns are gone

If the working report between the DOJ/AGS went into law unquestioned then it gives supers the power to restrict the number of firearms in an area based on the crime rate of said area, ie. a townsland which had no crimes last year but has had one crime committed in the area this year has a increase of 100% (can be any criminal offense once a person is charged( can be nothing related to firearms).

But it goes beyond that and allows a Super to decide how many firearms are allowed in his/her jurisdiction so when it comes to renewal (considered a new application) he/she can say no sorry limit of firearms has been reached and refuse your application based on "proliferation" of firearms in the his/her district.

If im wrong about this can someone please correct me as this is how i see the proposed changes and id rather be told im wrong than believe im right

Grizzly 45

That bird will have a very big problem getting off the ground...Firearms notwithstanding,can you imagine what a pronouncement on a district like that will do for your house and car insurance premiums?? Or your, or your kids prospect of getting a job??Or trying to sell your house to get out of the "high crime area"?
"The cheif comissioner of the district said it is so ,so he must know mustnt he??Slap another 2 grand on everyones premiums there to cover any losses."

Again this shows the utter shoddiness and shallow investigation work ornon research done by Prime Time in the fact they seem to have never even read the proposals in the first place by AGS.Any competant investigative reporter would have been asking questions on that point alone!Not lapping up the bilge being fed and spewing it out again from another orfice.No wonder I quit watching TV years ago!

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It is and you can get either versions,but just be prepared to fight for them!!Proably less fpr the straight pull,because the "Idonlikedelookodat now " clause is and has been proven to be very weak and defeatable as there is no definition in the Irish firearms law as to what a definition of an "assault rifle " actually is...Could say a bolt action is an assault rifle because 100 years ago today German and British troops were "assaulting " each other with them in the trenches.

So where are we now?

Anyone with C/F pistols, C/F S/A rifles, pump SG's, .22/air pistols get to keep what they have.

New applicants for the above face serious obstacles (C/F pistols not allowed), except for "Approved Olympic" firearms, whatever they are (seems Fergus Healy will decide).

Academics and international experts recommended by Justice Committee to examine the way forward (read: kick can down the road past the election).

5 mill in court fees due to shooters.

The trenches analogy is very apt, Griz.

Possibly the best thing is that if you go to court to get say C/F S/A rifle and win, you get your costs now, most likely (but not definitely).

knockon

yubabill1 wrote: »

So where are we now?

Anyone with C/F pistols, C/F S/A rifles, pump SG's, .22/air pistols get to keep what they have.

New applicants for the above face serious obstacles (C/F pistols not allowed), except for "Approved Olympic" firearms, whatever they are (seems Fergus Healy will decide).

Academics and international experts recommended by Justice Committee to examine the way forward (read: kick can down the road past the election).

5 mill in court fees due to shooters.

The trenches analogy is very apt, Griz.

Possibly the best thing is that if you go to court to get say C/F S/A rifle and win, you get your costs now, most likely (but not definitely).

I think you are correct Yubabill - this looks like death by Committee. Most important thing though is if the Minister asks the Garda Inspectorate to examine the proposals that the Gardai spearheaded and the whole licensing system they will find a whole heap of sh$t. Better again they will write that report like these ones....http://www.gsinsp.ie/news-and-reports.php and put on paper what we have been saying for years.


Well Grizzly45 and I were discussing that over lunch during the week and he might be better placed than I to give you a better "where we are at".
For me I see whatever happens next regarding applying for a firearm will be coming from the Phoenix Park. i.e. "Do not refuse any centrefire pistol/rifle/.22 pistol etc renewals as they (us) are going to appeal and the Garda Accountant says we can not afford to". This of course is providing that noting about the applicant has changed and we tick all the box's.

I had a notion that I would arrive in the CS's office as usual and he would say "I'll be refusing you" and I would answer "Work away as you'll be paying all the costs" but things are never that simple. What this whole thing in the last few months though has garnished a bunch of us together albeit loosely where we have demonstrated to politicians that we are a force to be reckoned with. In particular the group that represented us at the Justice Committee were excellent. A lot of people have been educated on the sport of shooting if nothing else.

I'am not sure how they (AGS) are going to deal with new applications. What happens if I apply to Henry St tomorrow morning for say a Sig Mosqioto .22 and mag capacity of 5....will I be refused? If I apply for a new pump shotgun? I would be real interested though if anyone is in the DC on an appeal soon?

B412

Is there any one out there who can tell me if, I was to convert my semi auto 308 to straight pull would this firearm now be in the non-restricted category and easier to re-licence. Or am i thinking these pricks are reasonable people

crusier

What's needed is someone to win a gold medal in target shooting at the Olympics, the Irish are known to hop on any sporting bandwagon and you would likely find Finan McGrath on the welcome home stage hogging the microphone. Pity we don't have anyone with a steady hand!

Sparks

crusier wrote: »

What's needed is someone to win a gold medal in target shooting at the Olympics, the Irish are known to hop on any sporting bandwagon and you would likely find Finan McGrath on the welcome home stage hogging the microphone. Pity we don't have anyone with a steady hand!

Four world championship gold and silver medals in the last ten years in Olympic shotgun.
Don't think it's helped that much in this area.
Did bring in some good things, but the licencing laws seem unaffected.

Grizzly 45

B412 wrote: »

Is there any one out there who can tell me if, I was to convert my semi auto 308 to straight pull would this firearm now be in the non-restricted category and easier to re-licence. Or am i thinking these pricks are reasonable people

Nope stays restricted because of the features and mag capacity.But easier to fight about because looks don't determine function.

Grizzly 45

knockon wrote: »

I think you are correct Yubabill - this looks like death by Committee. Most important thing though is if the Minister asks the Garda Inspectorate to examine the proposals that the Gardai spearheaded and the whole licensing system they will find a whole heap of sh$t. Better again they will write that report like these ones....http://www.gsinsp.ie/news-and-reports.php and put on paper what we have been saying for years.


Well Grizzly45 and I were discussing that over lunch during the week and he might be better placed than I to give you a better "where we are at".
For me I see whatever happens next regarding applying for a firearm will be coming from the Phoenix Park. i.e. "Do not refuse any centrefire pistol/rifle/.22 pistol etc renewals as they (us) are going to appeal and the Garda Accountant says we can not afford to". This of course is providing that noting about the applicant has changed and we tick all the box's.

I had a notion that I would arrive in the CS's office as usual and he would say "I'll be refusing you" and I would answer "Work away as you'll be paying all the costs" but things are never that simple. What this whole thing in the last few months though has garnished a bunch of us together albeit loosely where we have demonstrated to politicians that we are a force to be reckoned with. In particular the group that represented us at the Justice Committee were excellent. A lot of people have been educated on the sport of shooting if nothing else.

I'am not sure how they (AGS) are going to deal with new applications. What happens if I apply to Henry St tomorrow morning for say a Sig Mosqioto .22 and mag capacity of 5....will I be refused? If I apply for a new pump shotgun? I would be real interested though if anyone is in the DC on an appeal soon?

Probieren geht uber studieren as the Germans say (try it out rather than study).As I and 250 other appellants on the .22 pistols won in the high court recently in 25 test cases by William Egan.I'll be re applying for my gsg 1911 .22 under a new super in the coming weeks so we will soon find out ifAGS will beholden to HC rulings or will we still do the DC shuffle.

Had a look at the Garda inspectorates qualifications.....WOW! There are two Ex Chicago PD officers on there who have some serious LE experiance behind them in various US states and countries[Notwithstanding appaling record on gun crime and gun bans in that city]
The head is an EX London Met officer who was involved with operation TRIDENT,which the AGS operation ANVIL is based on .TRIDENT has had its own controversies ,namly the fitting up of Mick Shepard,a rather eccentric looking gun dealer,but a sound guy.So all three of them shouldnt be newbies to firearms.

B412

Grizzly you say a new super on less you are moving districts my understand is our old friend is staying , I like you hope to see the back of him

Grizzly 45

Nope his most highest Cheif Poobah in Henry St is staying put for another eight years or so .Its his understudy who is being replaced.[The last lad left under a bit of a cloud and a hurry too it seems?].The new replacement Super is a local and supposedly a good egg,as much as you can belive I guess.

Shure you dont want to be changing them that often either..All the hassle of having to retrain a new one is a bother.:)

knockon

He was overheard a few years ago calling the new Commissioner something unsavory. As his penance he was told he has to stay in Limerick or retire. Norin does not like him either.

B412

It's not just Norin it's 99% off the members in there, is there any hope of retaining the S/F pistols and semi auto rifles at this stage

Grizzly 45

B412 wrote: »

, is there any hope of retaining the S/F pistols and semi auto rifles at this stage

Plenty of hope and law there my good fellow.:D Just need the WILL to stand your ground.

knockon

B412 wrote: »

It's not just Norin it's 99% off the members in there, is there any hope of retaining the S/F pistols and semi auto rifles at this stage

Of course there is. There has been no change in the law. To be fair I cannot be critical of anyone other than management in Henry St and he is doing exactly what he was told to do by his superiors. The snag with him was, he is so damn sneaky about it.