The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Paully D

I wonder how some of the owners, who put millions of $ in his pocket, feel about this?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/911911385176723457

coco0981

Have seen statements from at least 10 teams at on Twitter giving out about trumps comments. Including one from Robert kraft who would obviously be a powerful voice

Tristram

Lot of players kneeling there...

Was that Ray Lewis in amongst the Ravens with the shades?

Neil3030

Trumps comments hit a breathtaking new low for me. Nationalist, elitist (and subtly racist), egotistical and sadistic all in a couple of sentences. And yet the speech could give Strange the bump he needs to win the election. If it weren't so scary I'd find this fascinating....

I suspect he has given the issue a welcome boost. Think more who were undecided might do it now to back their colleagues in the face of attack from a President. It's not as if Trumps intervention was calmly reasoned argument that might persuade those who were undecided, and the abuse about the sport itself won't have helped.

GoldFour4

Khan united with his players on the sideline anyway, nice to see.

Would have been better if the players on each side held onto the ends of his spectacular moustache...

Neil3030

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect he has given the issue a welcome boost. Think more who were undecided might do it now to back their colleagues in the face of attack from a President. It's not as if Trumps intervention was calmly reasoned argument that might persuade those who were undecided, and the abuse about the sport itself won't have helped.

True, he will eventually bring about an Easter Rising type scenario, where the majority of the public weren't really in favour of the rising, but after the British response, executions, etc, sympathies shifted pretty quick.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Neil3030 wrote: »

True, he will eventually bring about an Easter Rising type scenario, where the majority of the public weren't really in favour of the rising, but after the British response, executions, etc, sympathies shifted pretty quick.

I don't know. He'll gain favour with a lot of people with his comments. The flag/anthem is a huge deal for a lot of US folk, many will applaud him.
Unfortunately the topic now gets swamped up with Trump taking centre stage (which I think he'll love).
Good to see the voices from the NFL hit out at Trump. But the debate just moves further away from what should be discussed.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

coco0981

He's just so divisive, polar opposite of what a president should be

Neil3030

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't know. He'll gain favour with a lot of people with his comments. The flag/anthem is a huge deal for a lot of US folk, many will applaud him.
Unfortunately the topic now gets swamped up with Trump taking centre stage (which I think he'll love).
Good to see the voices from the NFL hit out at Trump. But the debate just moves further away from what should be discussed.

A lot of teams have come out supporting their players and or criticising Trump, but many are in fairly liberal areas like Seattle, New York, New England etc. The interesting one for me is the Packers, who are very much in the heart of the Trump Mid-Western corridor, and if the Facebook response is anything to go by, it's actually promising - 11k likes, 3k love hearts and only 1.5k angry faces.

Christy42

Neil3030 wrote: »

A lot of teams have come out supporting their players and or criticising Trump, but many are in fairly liberal areas like Seattle, New York, New England etc. The interesting one for me is the Packers, who are very much in the heart of the Trump Mid-Western corridor, and if the Facebook response is anything to go by, it's actually promising - 11k likes, 3k love hearts and only 1.5k angry faces.

I would say Jaguars would not be from a massively liberal area. Lewis gave a good line on the interlocking arms which is that they wanted to make a statement that Trump's words are not alright with them but they wanted to make clear that they did not want to disrespect the military itself.

I mean I have no issue with the kneeling and it is pretty clear what it is aimed at but I can see why people would be conflicted about it and want to make it clear. Also shows the eggshells the players are being asked to walk on to "not protest the wrong way". For anyone who thinks that Trump is against PC this should be used as a counterexample. He wants to insult who he wants and protect who he wants. Giving out about the players not standing is PC going over the top.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

A lot of teams have come out supporting their players and or criticising Trump, but many are in fairly liberal areas like Seattle, New York, New England etc. The interesting one for me is the Packers, who are very much in the heart of the Trump Mid-Western corridor, and if the Facebook response is anything to go by, it's actually promising - 11k likes, 3k love hearts and only 1.5k angry faces.

Packers fan, Republican and Speaker in the House of Representatives Paul Ryan has had a frosty relationship with Trump. His challenger, a Democrat, is a former steelworker and has made the rather pertinent point that Trump has attacked NFL players more then he has attacked racists.

Mark Murphy has criticised Trump. Meanwhile looks like Bennett and Adams might be the first Packers players to take a knee, while Rodgers has come out to say that while he himself won't take a knee during the anthem, he fully supports their decision to do so.

When Trump even upsets the Packers, as you note they're hardly from the most liberal State, then it looks more and more like a gaffe.

Manic Moran

Mmm.. I don't know.

The pro/anti sides of Trump's comments in terms of numbers seem to be looking at it from two perspectives.

The anti side don't like what Trump said mainly because they think it's hypocritical, they believe it's unPresidential, he shouldn't be making such comments etc. The pro side don't care about that, they just think he's right on the issue of disrespecting the Anthem. For the NFL's perspective, the protests aren't going to make more people watch and support the NFL games, regardless of how much national support they get from the population as a whole, but they are going to have an effect of seeing a number of folks who like American Football stop watching it. My FB feed is split about down the middle. I have one contact this morning, a black San Francisco area cop, who in one post is commenting on a questionable call in a 49ers play last night, and in the very next post is vitriolic about the players who are protesting. I have not seen any of the folks who are commenting in favour of the protests also commenting on the actual football.

The bottom line for the NFL is.. well.. the bottom line: Dollars.

helimachoptor

Titans and Hawks will both be staying in their dressing rooms apparently

Manic Moran

Manic Moran wrote: »

Mmm.. I don't know.

The pro/anti sides of Trump's comments in terms of numbers seem to be looking at it from two perspectives.

The anti side don't like what Trump said mainly because they think it's hypocritical, they believe it's unPresidential, he shouldn't be making such comments etc. The pro side don't care about that, they just think he's right on the issue of disrespecting the Anthem.

But there are plenty of unsure/undecided.

And if he had said he sees why they do it but it's wrong, it's unpatriotic, it disrespects the flag and military etc. he could have really capitalised on the issue.

But that's not Trump's style. He had to bully and hector and reach for some really nasty angle, they should be sacked, the sport is stupid anyway, no one cares for the NFL. That aggravates those who had an opinion already...but it also forces other less committed players to take a stand with their colleagues, it makes the NFL an enemy.

It was stupid beyond belief. In a place like Wisconsin, Trump may easily be more popular than Clinton...but he is not more popular than the Packers. And if Bennett takes a knee, with Rodgers proclaiming his support, the unsure/undecideds certainly won't all take the side of the President.

Neil3030

helimachoptor wrote: »

Titans and Hawks will both be staying in their dressing rooms apparently

Oh dear, that could have very negative repercussions. Don't the US Military actually pay money so that teams are on the sideline for the anthems and pageantry? Whatever about the NFL supporting players protesting if it's not costing them any money, but hit them in the pocket and things could change.

Yggr of Asgard

It's very easy to solve.

The president as commander in chief instructs the secretary of defense to no longer provide members of the armed forces for NFL games and stop any further incidences in which the DoD (or Coast Guard) paid the NFL for the saluting the troops show before the game (where those funds have not already been returned by the NFL after the last outcry). If the NFL can not guarantee that the US Code is followed than why should the government pay for this?

And than the NFL can make the decision how they want to conduct the playing of the National Anthem before a game and how they go about players not following the US code when it comes to the flag/anthem.

There is no need for all of this pomp before a football game that these days is mostly boring and played by overpaid people.

Than the people which pay for the NFL (the viewers) can decide if they like what their teams are doing or not and soon the NFL will do what their customers want.

Neil3030

Deleted User wrote: »

But there are plenty of unsure/undecided.

And if he had said he sees why they do it but it's wrong, it's unpatriotic, it disrespects the flag and military etc. he could have really capitalised on the issue.

But that's not Trump's style. He had to bully and hector and reach for some really nasty angle, they should be sacked, the sport is stupid anyway, no one cares for the NFL. That aggravates those who had an opinion already...but it also forces other less committed players to take a stand with their colleagues, it makes the NFL an enemy.

It was stupid beyond belief. In a place like Wisconsin, Trump may easily be more popular than Clinton...but he is not more popular than the Packers. And if Bennett takes a knee, with Rodgers proclaiming his support, the unsure/undecideds certainly won't all take the side of the President.

Agree with most of this but I really don't think Trump is a bully - he is simply a short-sighted sociopath who only ever focuses on a specific goal and either can't or won't see the consequences of his actions. All he set out to achieve in Alabama was get a positive response from his fanbase, and this involved calling uppity wealthy black people "sons of bitches" and then stick the knife in further by claiming the NFL is now soft, and by extension, so are the largely black population playing it. The crowd lapped it up, objective achieved. That he has enraged so many people in the game was an unforeseen consequence, in my eyes. I truly don't think he gives a rattling sh*t about the protests, just how his fanbase perceive them.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

I truly don't think he gives a rattling sh*t about the protests, just how his fanbase perceive them.

Fully agree.

He won't perceive or accept he got it wrong in the slightest. But suspect it erodes his fanbase a little, or at least those who voted for him without being wholly convinced. It is such an unnecessary fight.

Yggr of Asgard

Deleted User wrote: »

Fully agree.

He won't perceive or accept he got it wrong in the slightest. But suspect it erodes his fanbase a little, or at least those who voted for him without being wholly convinced. It is such an unnecessary fight.

Giving how President Trump himself constantly disrespects both the flag code and the national anthem rules I would agree that he does not care about the issue.

When you don't follow the rules yourself multiple times than it's hard to tell other people to follow the rules.

But as to the NFL, the government should stop paying them for the show and also stop funding their stadiums which most of the times works out as a bad deal anyhow.

And than we can leave it to the customers of the NFL to handle how they want to deal with people not following the rules.

Neil3030

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

But as to the NFL, the government should stop paying them for the show and also stop funding their stadiums which most of the times works out as a bad deal anyhow.

And than we can leave it to the customers of the NFL to handle how they want to deal with people not following the rules.

I'm sure the US Military get huge tangible (recruitment) and intangible (public support) benefits from their deal with the NFL though. A few players protesting is unlikely to outweigh these returns, surely?

ricero

Zero respect for the anthem. A dark day for sport in america today. Freeze the league until respect is shown

TOss Sweep

Manic Moran wrote: »

For the NFL's perspective, the protests aren't going to make more people watch and support the NFL games, regardless of how much national support they get from the population as a whole, but they are going to have an effect of seeing a number of folks who like American Football stop watching it. .

Tv ratings may go down but the majority of the stadium are full or close to full. The only stadiums empty right now are those teams who are just sh1t and the teams who never get large crowds. The rest are all close to if not full. Sales have also not gone down on their websites and dont forget the international market could give two fooks about it. The NFL are fine and if TV figures is all they have to worry about then they will be fine. Sponsors will still pay them millions either way.

Yggr of Asgard

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm sure the US Military get huge tangible (recruitment) and intangible (public support) benefits from their deal with the NFL though. A few players protesting is unlikely to outweigh these returns, surely?

Last time it came out that this was "paid patriotism" the national guard said that some of their efforts for example with NASCAR failed to produce concrete information that the marketing led to more recruits.

When Congress looked into this in 2016 the DOD could not provide any information to the actual impact on recruitment or even how much of the money spend did go to recruitment and not simply into the pockets of the NFL.

I don't think that the display of the flag and playing of the national anthem in front of an NFL game in the presence of members of the uniformed services of the USA is actually that big of a recruitment tool anymore, especially as the groups that are targeted with such pomp might not like the disrespect that the players are showing during it. In effect it might have a negative impact.

Neil3030

I guarantee you now have an enormous group of people who have never watched a football game in their lives tuning in specifically to see what the players do during the anthems.

Yggr of Asgard

ricero wrote: »

Zero respect for the anthem. A dark day for sport in america today. Freeze the league until respect is shown

The problem is that neither USC Title 4 (flag) or 36 (anthem) is enforceable, it says "should" with no penalties for not following the rules.

So it's down to the moral question, should people that have a position in society that others might look up to follow the rules even if there is no enforcement attached to them?

In my book yes, it might say "should" but still it's not the right place to show your dissatisfaction.

But as long as Title 4/36 are "should" the only way it changes is if the NFL comes out with other rules of conduct.

I'm sure there is no appetite to make 4/36 with enforcement, especially giving that the usual free speech argument might strike those efforts down.

Wanderer78

fair play to them

JaMarcusHustle

That girl who took a knee after singing the national anthem in Tennessee is a tool. Same with the guitar player.

If she felt that strongly, she'd have refused to sing it in the first place. But no, because that'd mean she'd have went without the attention and publicity. So she wants the best of both worlds.