The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

D9Male

Yeah I like the idea of 7pts, and then try for either 6pts or 8ts.

JCTO

adrian522 wrote: »

What do you think of the 3 extra point rule changes being voted on?

They need 3/4 of the owenrs to pass one of them.

1. Ball placed at 15-yard line for 1-point kick; ball placed at 2-yard line for 2-point try (Patriots submission)

2. Ball placed at 15-yard line for 1-point kick; ball placed at 1-yard line for 2-point try; defense can score the points if it returns a turnover the other end zone on the 2-point try (Eagles submission)

3. Same as Eagles submission, but 2-point conversion from the 2-yard line (competition committee submission)

I'd be in favour of option 3 from these, wouldn't upset me greatly if they are rejected though.

So 1 and 3 are practically the same. 3 The only difference like College ball the Defense can intercept or return the ball for the 2 points on a turnover.

poldebruin wrote: »

I hate all the options up for vote.

The two i had heard proposed that make most sense to me are:

Abolish the pat, award 7pts for a td or 6pts with option of going for 2 from the 1 yard line.

D9Male wrote: »

Yeah I like the idea of 7pts, and then try for either 6pts or 8ts.

Wasn't it only the 3 proposals above that they are voting on though? I agree with Clementine Scary String I can't see the players union agreeing to it as it would diminish the role of the kicker.

adrian522

Is Jim Harbaugh trolling Tom Brady here?

https://twitter.com/CoachJim4UM/status/599290554225164288

mikemac1

This morning I was reading about offensive line play as you do on a Sunday morning

We've all heard of a pancake block but I saw that Ben Grubbs, guard of the Ravens, Saints and now Chiefs was credited with cockroach blocks and rodeo blocks in college. What are these??

A college coach explains it

"When we cut block, and somebody goes down, that's a cockroach block," Nall said. "The guy is either crawling on the ground or laying on his back."


"A rodeo block is when you're in pass protection. You want them to be a perfect fit on a defender. If he stays on that defender until the pass is thrown, like riding a bull for the eight count, that's a rodeo block. If everybody does it, all five blockers, that's rodeo protection."

poldebruin

Interesting story about a British guy, getting a tryout for punter/kickoff specialist for Denver.
Career stats in college: 11 kickoffs, 0 punts.
Long shot, but might be interesting to follow in preseason.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/sports/football/a-28-year-old-broncos-prospect-is-used-to-long-odds-and-punts.html?ref=football

adrian522

Justin Smith has announced his retirement, not unexpected but a loss all the same. 3 retirements from last seasons front 7.

Smith was probably the 49ers best ever free agency signing. 3 time all-pro, including at both DE and DT in 2011 and 2012

Paully D

Ryan Tannehill extended through 2020. Numbers should be revealed soon.

phatkev

Paully D wrote: »

Ryan Tannehill extended through 2020. Numbers should be revealed soon.

6 years/96 million with 45m guaranteed

Paully D

phatkev wrote: »

6 years/96 million with 45m guaranteed

In the current climate, he's well worth it.

Knex*

Paully D wrote: »

In the current climate, he's well worth it.

I'm a big a fan, tbh. Impressed me a lot last year, especially in the second half of the year. That was behind a shocking OL too. And he's done well not to develop David Carr syndrome with how bad that has been since he came into the league.

Think he'll step it up this year.

Realt Dearg Sec

Not exactly weird, whacky or awesome, but I guess this is the only general thread for it. Anyway sadly Jesse Williams has cancer:

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/05/18/dt-jesse-williams-will-undergo-kidney-surgery-after-being-diagnosed-papillary-type-2

He's very positive, but that's an extremely aggressive cancer with a poor prognosis.

nasty_crash

Knex. wrote: »

I'm a big a fan, tbh. Impressed me a lot last year, especially in the second half of the year. That was behind a shocking OL too. And he's done well not to develop David Carr syndrome with how bad that has been since he came into the league.

Think he'll step it up this year.

He has to step up this year - im sure he was like im throwing to hartline here!! give me something to throw at.....

Parker, Cameron, Jennings, Landry, Stills will give him a nice receiving core next year and lamarr miller needs to progress with tannehill to ease the pressure off him - gonna be a savage division with Bills, Jets, Miami all improving to see if they can match Pats

extra points being moved to the 15, 2 pointers staying at the 2 both can be returned by the defense

adrian522

This is interesting, or maybe just a bit of slagging or whatever.

Vernon Davis posted a picture of himself with a football and looking sad up on Instagram.

https://instagram.com/p/24FdavuNBw/?taken-by=vernondavis85

The caption was "Repost this if you miss football season as much as I do"

Plenty of comments underneath, but one of them stands out:



FG2132 is the verified account of Frank Gore

Hulk Hands

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

extra points being moved to the 15, 2 pointers staying at the 2 both can be returned by the defense

Going for 2 has a 47% expectancy rate of working. This is 0.94 points expectancy per attempt. The pat was obviously the smart move under the old system. According to NFL.com, with the ball on the 15, the PAT has just a 91% of being succesful. Obviously 0.94 > 0.91, so the 2pt attempt would be the +EV move. NFL coaches are mentally challenged the majority of the time when it comes to +EV decisions, but the hope would be that innovative coaches would go for 2 way more often and get their success in the long run over the Stone-age coaches.

However, the NFL has decided to screw it all up by ridiculously offering the defense the chance to return the ball for 2 if intercepted/fumbled. This will probably happen 1-2% of the time, thus leading to a 3 loss for the offense (1 for not taking the xp, 2 for the return). Thus, it will make the 2pt conversion a -EV choice, leaving us exactly back where we were, with coaches only taking the 2pt risk near the end for scoreboard reasons. Only difference is you will see approx 9% of PAT's missed. I was very excited when i heard the changes, only for the last little detail to ruin everything

poldebruin

Hulk Hands wrote: »

However, the NFL has decided to screw it all up by ridiculously offering the defense the chance to return the ball for 2 if intercepted/fumbled. This will probably happen 1-2% of the time, thus leading to a 3 loss for the offense (1 for not taking the xp, 2 for the return). Thus, it will make the 2pt conversion a -EV choice, leaving us exactly back where we were, with coaches only taking the 2pt risk near the end for scoreboard reasons. Only difference is you will see approx 9% of PAT's missed. I was very excited when i heard the changes, only for the last little detail to ruin everything

I have to say, I absolutely hate the change and am totally against it. I would've hoped they trial it for the entire preseason first, to see the changes it makes to the drama of the game. Is it a good thing that a last minute march down the field for a game winning td now has to be tempered while your kicking team trots out to kick a 32 yard field goal?

I haven't looked at the maths but it would surprise me that the defence being able to return the attempt for a score pushes the EV down so much. Even if 1-2% are intercepted/fumbled, only about 1% of that 1% are going to be returned for a score the other way. 99yard interception and fumble returns are extremely rare.

Hulk Hands

I would've thought in a situation where the QB can't throw it away (it would result in failure here), the interception rate would be high, as would the return rate when there's no players in the backfield on plays like that. I think it'll happen more often than we suspect, pushing coaches back to the PAT. I hope im wrong, would be great to see an innovator like Arians decide to go for 2 on all occasions

poldebruin

Or we'll get to see a "safety" line up 15 yards deep on the offence.

No more surprise 2pt conversions (or they will be even more of a surprise) from the traditional PAT formation like the Rams executed last year.

I just hate the idea of games being decided by missed PATs.

Knex*

I think this will probably be here to stay, tbh. Certainly adds another layer to the game.

Previously, PAT had a 98% success rate.

Now, however, it'll be like so:

2 point attempts average 47% success, so teams can get an expected 0.94 points/attempt.

32 yard FG average 92%, for an expected 0.92 points/attempt. (although some of these are left and right from the hashes)

Teams may still very well end up going for the two points over the course of the season.

Question though, can you fake PAT from the 15 now and get your two?

poldebruin

Knex. wrote: »

I think this will probably be here to stay, tbh. Certainly adds another layer to the game.

A layer that many would say we could have done without. I think this will have much bigger consequences than people are imagining. It certainly adds more randomness to the games which I don't like.

Knex. wrote: »

Question though, can you fake PAT from the 15 now and get your two?

I'm pretty sure you can, a botched snap or trick play under the current rules still counts for two if run/passed into the endzone. It'll be a brave coach that tries a trick 2pt conversion from the 15 yard line though - Chip Kelly maybe?

Knex*

Looking into this, some other stuff to consider.

Offensive and Defensive penalties. Over celebration/taunting, will result in a 15 yard penalty for PAT.

So a 48 yard field goal, or a 17 yard 2pt conversion. Ouch.

Now defensive, I'm not positive, but I think extra point decisions can change after penalties.
If there's a penalty on a kick, then the PAT decision returns to previous years? 2 points from the 1, or a 17 yard FG?

padraig_f

Hulk Hands wrote: »

However, the NFL has decided to screw it all up by ridiculously offering the defense the chance to return the ball for 2 if intercepted/fumbled. This will probably happen 1-2% of the time, thus leading to a 3 loss for the offense (1 for not taking the xp, 2 for the return). Thus, it will make the 2pt conversion a -EV choice, leaving us exactly back where we were, with coaches only taking the 2pt risk near the end for scoreboard reasons. Only difference is you will see approx 9% of PAT's missed. I was very excited when i heard the changes, only for the last little detail to ruin everything

I was all for moving the PAT back to incentivise more 2-pt conversions, didn't think of the implications of allowing the defense to return it. But I think you might be right, coaches are notoriously risk-averse. If the rule-change doesn't encourage more 2-pt conversions, they need to review it again.

poldebruin

Knex. wrote: »

Looking into this, some other stuff to consider.

Offensive and Defensive penalties. Over celebration/taunting, will result in a 15 yard penalty for PAT.

So a 48 yard field goal, or a 17 yard 2pt conversion. Ouch.

Great point. This is the type of unintended consequence we're going to see, a "game tying" last second TD is celebrated just a little too much. Penalty. 48 yard FG to tie is the outcome....that is too harsh a penalty for someone spiking a ball too enthusiastically.

Hulk Hands

Figures coming out now that FG's from the 15, centre hash mark (as xp's will be) are actually a 95% shot. Add in that teams should look to improve this percentage as they practice it constantly from now on from this distance. Then you have the chance of a def return, and NFL coaches and the media being naturally risk aversive. So absolutely nothing will change imo, they'll continue to go for 1. 'Nothing to see here'.

One thing i did see whats that if an offensive team commits a penalty, they can then change back to a PAT. Assumeing the penalty yardage will be added to the PAT, otherwise its completely illogical

Knex*

The Stuff you don't usually see... JJ Watt's bruise after the first half of the Bills game.

https://twitter.com/jjwatt/status/601178072100962304

helimachoptor

Knex. wrote: »

The Stuff you don't usually see... JJ Watt's bruise after the first half of the Bills game.

https://twitter.com/jjwatt/status/601178072100962304

that looks like hes tore his thigh, mental all the same

adrian522

NFL trolling the Patriots?


PSI indeed!

Hazys

Yes, the NFL is trolling.

People said that the Pats were being paranoid thinking that the NFL is run by Jets fans...it really is.

The social media manager for the NFL is a Jets fan: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/21/wondering-about-nfls-social-media-trolling-of-pats-jets-fan-likely-behind-it/

The classless Patriots should learn a thing or two from the integrity oozing NFL.

In Exile

Hazys wrote: »

Yes, the NFL is trolling.

People said that the Pats were being paranoid thinking that the NFL is run by Jets fans...it really is.

The social media manager for the NFL is a Jets fan: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/21/wondering-about-nfls-social-media-trolling-of-pats-jets-fan-likely-behind-it/

The classless Patriots should learn a thing or two from the integrity oozing NFL.

Oh will you give it a rest?

Buttfumble was all over the NFL Twitter/Facebook feed at the time. How could a Jets fan post something so classless at his own team??

Simple. There are 31 other teams in the league and social media plays up to the majority, not the one team.

I think the first link of the article linked sums it up perfectly:

BOSTON (CBS) — There are silly stories, and then there are silly stories. And this, my friends, is one silly story.

phatkev

Hazys wrote: »

Yes, the NFL is trolling.

People said that the Pats were being paranoid thinking that the NFL is run by Jets fans...it really is.

fcuking Jets! always up to no good, the bastards.