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Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

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24567…57

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    #32
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,243 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Should these people be forced to do work that they dont want to do?

    I'm no business expert, but this is their job.


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    #33
    El_Dangeroso
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    If I owned a printing shop and was asked to print pro-life literature, you know the kind with the near term abortions on it could I refuse because of my beliefs? (I'm pretty staunchly pro-choice and pro-gay rights - but it's a fair point)


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    #34
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Cody montana wrote: »
    I'm no business expert, but this is their job.

    Yes but they choose their jobs because they own the business


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    #35
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    If I owned a printing shop and was asked to print pro-life literature, you know the kind with the near term abortions on it could I refuse because of my beliefs? (I'm pretty staunchly pro-choice and pro-gay rights - but it's a fair point)

    you should have the right to IMO


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    #36
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    If I owned a printing shop and was asked to print pro-life literature, you know the kind with the near term abortions on it could I refuse because of my beliefs? (I'm pretty staunchly pro-choice and pro-gay rights - but it's a fair point)

    In theory you could just refuse without saying why. You reserve the right to refuse service.

    Although in terms of pro life literature there could be an argument made that sometimes it can veer into hate speech territory (not always) so you could probably refuse based on that.


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    #37
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Links234 wrote: »
    That's what people like me fear.

    But we can be friends Links and do all sorts of Japanesey things :(


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    #38
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    you never refuse work you just say you are too busy

    no need to make a big song and dance about it


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    #39
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,243 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Yes but they choose their jobs because they own the business

    So they can refuse to help you because you are gay?

    That's ok so.


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    #40
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Is this not just another non story? The guy took his business to the same printers for 4 years with no problems. Presumably, and I may be wrong on this, he would have been aware of their strong religious beliefs. If he did know and asked them to print the invitations the fault lies with him, if he deliberately tried to stir things up. Discriminating against someone because they are gay is wrong, then again so is trying to force someone to go against their religious beliefs.


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    #41
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Cody montana wrote: »
    I'm no business expert, but this is their job.

    The printer is self-employed so his job is whatever he decides his job is ......... the beauty of having no boss telling you what you can and can't do is that you are free to make your own personal decisions on what's best for you and your business.


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    #42
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Man!

    If you're not condoning police racism in Ferguson you're condoning sexual bigotry in Drogheda.


    its not sexual bigotry

    they have done business with the man for years and would no doubt print other things for him in the future


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    #43
    Cuban Pete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭Cuban Pete


    Except being one's own boss doesn't place one above the law.


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    #44
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I Presumably, and I may be wrong on this,]he would have been aware of their strong religious beliefs.

    Not necessarily at all.

    That worrying part for me is that they've been so open about why they refused service IMO. Like they think it's ok to be homophobes and use religion as a defense.


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    #45
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    But to refuse to do work for someone based on gender/race/sexuality/age is discrimination.

    But they haven't refused to do business with someone. They have refused to carry out a particular task.

    They can obviously demonstrate they have done business with this person in the past.


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    #46
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,243 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The printer is self-employed so his job is whatever he decides his job is ......... the beauty of having no boss telling you what you can and can't do is that you are free to make your own personal decisions on what's best for you and your business.

    So he decided to discriminate against a gay person.
    Thus associating the business with discrimination.
    Smart person.


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    #47
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    If I owned a printing shop and was asked to print pro-life literature, you know the kind with the near term abortions on it could I refuse because of my beliefs? (I'm pretty staunchly pro-choice and pro-gay rights - but it's a fair point)

    I would refuse that too but that stuff is full of lies, it's potentially dangerous and its going out to the public. This was invited to a family event. Not the same.


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    #48
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Cody montana wrote: »
    So they can refuse to help you because you are gay?

    That's ok so.

    Help ? It's not a Hospital. It's a printer, This is just more social media click bait to get the outrage addicts out.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that if this was the Flavour of the Month Religion, Printing their stuff for years and only refusing to print this. The "That is their Right" lads would be out in force.


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    #49
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

    no need to make a big song and dance about it

    lol!


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    #50
    BD45
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭BD45


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    If I owned a printing shop and was asked to print pro-life literature, you know the kind with the near term abortions on it could I refuse because of my beliefs? (I'm pretty staunchly pro-choice and pro-gay rights - but it's a fair point)

    It would be only right for you to refuse to print something that goes against your beliefs. And if you did, you'd be a hero on here. Of course if you refused to print pro-choice material you'd be a villain!


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    #51
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I would refuse that too but that stuff is full of lies, it's potentially dangerous and its going out to the public. This was invited to a family event. Not the same.
    That's your opinion. Mine too btw.


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    #52
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    If I owned a printing shop and was asked to print pro-life literature, you know the kind with the near term abortions on it could I refuse because of my beliefs? (I'm pretty staunchly pro-choice and pro-gay rights - but it's a fair point)

    Of course you can ........... if however you were employed by a printer and he told you to print something you disagreed with then you'd either have to print it or find another job


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    #53
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Cuban Pete wrote: »
    Except being one's own boss doesn't place one above the law.

    The printer didn't break the law ...........


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    #54
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You'd actually find that this happens more than is reported in the media, there was a prominent city center pub here in Galway that ejected two friends of ours because they shared a kiss, and in a certain restaurant gay people recieved abuse from the staff. Neither instance ever made it to a new story. And I didn't suggest businesses as a whole would discriminate, but that enough business might do so that it would impact upon people's lives.


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    #55
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    Refusing to print something that's involved in illegal activity (kiddie fiddling and terrorism both being that) is sliiiightly different.
    It's a valid point nonetheless. Consider a man who walks into a printing store in 1993 and asks for leaflets saying Arrest all homosexuals now! and the business refuses based on their beliefs that homosexuality is natural and should not be a criminal offense. Should the printing company have been forced to serve the customer? The guy just wanted his leaflets printed; Was he discriminated against because of his sexuality (i.e. being straight) or because of his beliefs? (which were supported by the law.) It's not as straightforward and simplistic as we might think.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Fair enough if their Christianity is important to how they conduct their business but they should make that known in their branding.


    It's painfully clear! I know not many here will have been near them, as most of ye aren't from the area, obviously, but it's 'slap you in the face' obvious that they're a religious bunch.

    Fair enough if they've been doing business with him for 4 years he should respect their decision to not deal with him on an issue they find sensitive to their beliefs.

    If I wanted gay wedding invites or posters for my upcoming swingers party made, they're the last place I'd go, because they make it clear they're a christian bunch who have strong beliefs.


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    #57
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    it's not the individual they object to (they've done business with him for four years), it's the material they object to .......... and they are well within their rights both morally and legally to refuse to put their name/reputation to a product for whatever reason.
    It's not a public service, it's their business ........ nobody has the right to remove the printer's right to choice.

    Did they know he was gay before the wedding invites job?


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    #58
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's painfully clear! I know not many here will have been near them, as most of ye aren't from the area, obviously, but it's 'slap you in the face' obvious that they're a religious bunch.

    Fair enough if they've been doing business with him for 4 years he should respect their decision to not deal with him on an issue they find sensitive to their beliefs.

    If I wanted gay wedding invites or posters for my upcoming swingers party made, they're the last place I'd go, because they make it clear they're a christian bunch who have strong beliefs.

    How is it obvious?


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    #59
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Cody montana wrote: »
    So he decided to discriminate against a gay person.
    Thus associating the business with discrimination.
    Smart person.

    Like it or not there are a lot of people in Ireland who would share his beliefs and may be prone to use his services based on this situation thus possibly creating new business opportunities for the printer ......... conversely those same people may stop using a particular printer solely because he/she prints material which they may find objectionable thus losing business for that printer ......... it works both ways.


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    #60
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Dumb Printer: I wont take the job due to religious views
    Customer: OMG Discrimination!!

    Smart Printer: Don't have capacity, try the printer across town
    Customer: ok thanks see ya


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    #61
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Did they know he was gay before the wedding invites job?

    Dunno how often would it come up in conversation in your day to day dealings with customers ? Unless the business in Llandewi Breffi.


This discussion has been closed.
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