Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

Links234

bluewolf wrote: »

I know , and I'm saying that's your choice- and I think it should remain that way

I disagree, I don't think that your race, religion, sexual orientations, political views or such should be grounds to get refused service. That's gotta apply across the board.

Donkey Oaty

Links234 wrote: »

Nope, even if I did have that choice, I wouldn't refuse to serve him. He's entitled to his opinion and I don't think that opinion should be used against him to refuse service. Now if he's abusive to staff or other customers, that's a whole other bowl of ramen, and I'd ask him to leave. But just as I wouldn't expect to be refused service for my opinions or other grounds, I shouldn't do it to someone else.

I want my ramen in a guaranteed Walters-free environment, and I am prepared to pay extra for that.

Could there be a special hour or two where this service is provided?

Akrasia

MadDog76 wrote: »

He actually refused to print homosexual material ........

Ergo, it's totally legal.

Not when sexual orientation is one of the legally recognised grounds for discrimination.

If he had refused to print a wedding invite for an interracial couple because its against his religious belief, would that be ok?

coffee_cake

Links234 wrote: »

I disagree, I don't think that your race, religion, sexual orientations, political views or such should be grounds to get refused service. That's gotta apply across the board.

Agree to disagree

oppenheimer1

Lollipops23 wrote: »

They're openly discriminating against someone based on sexual orientation. This should be publicized so that any sane minded folk can boycott them.

Would it be discrimination though if a straight person went in to get gay wedding invites done for a friend and was refused?

darkpagandeath

Akrasia wrote: »

Not when sexual orientation is one of the legally recognised grounds for discrimination.

If he had refused to print a wedding invite for an interracial couple because its against his religious belief, would that be ok?

Presumably, As the customer was not refused. Just the printing of material was refused. It's a tricky one.

dr.fuzzenstein

bluewolf wrote: »

I know , and I'm saying that's your choice- and I think it should remain that way

I think it is discrimination by the back door (no pun intended). It says "you're a filthy homo and I can't discriminate against you, but you have now given me the perfect excuse to do so and I can worm my way out of it on a technicality".

Roquentin

Prejudice is a learned trait. You're not born prejudiced; you're taught it.
Charles R. Swindoll

darkpagandeath

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think it is discrimination by the back door (no pun intended). It says "you're a filthy homo and I can't discriminate against you, but you have now given me the perfect excuse to do so and I can worm my way out of it on a technicality".

Like most stuff in life unfortunately, Look at high end legal cases and so on.

Akrasia

Links234 wrote: »

Nope, even if I did have that choice, I wouldn't refuse to serve him. He's entitled to his opinion and I don't think that opinion should be used against him to refuse service. Now if he's abusive to staff or other customers, that's a whole other bowl of ramen, and I'd ask him to leave. But just as I wouldn't expect to be refused service for my opinions or other grounds, I shouldn't do it to someone else.

we define legal grounds for discrimination. Being a dick is not protected from discrimination. Being gay is. We as a society have decided to sacrifice a tiny bit of personal freedom in order to protect minorities from persecution

coffee_cake

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think it is discrimination by the back door (no pun intended). It says "you're a filthy homo and I can't discriminate against you, but you have now given me the perfect excuse to do so and I can worm my way out of it on a technicality".

in fairness I think in the last 4 years if they really wanted to refuse service like that they would have found a way

RWCNT

bjork wrote: »

Get steamed and use the sauna facilities

but the bigots won't let me

You know we're in there to bang, right?

K4t

bjork wrote: »

Why would a homosexual go to a religious printer?

See, this is the crux of the issue. Prejudice based on religious belief. If any one or thing is to be criticised here it is religion; but then you'll have the religious folk moaning too about those damn atheists! (you will see for example on the angelus thread in after hours) Everyone is a minority or discriminated against in some way or another and at different times! We can't just make laws against all beliefs. Religious belief promotes this intolerance though, and that is the real problem.

bjork

RWCNT wrote: »

You know we're in there to bang, right?

And?


They are discriminating against me by gender and sexuality

Akrasia

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Presumably, As the customer was not refused. Just the printing of material was refused. It's a tricky one.

Its not that tricky. The owner has explained his reasons for refusing to print the invitations, and it was entirely due to the sexual orientation of the couple involved

dr.fuzzenstein

bluewolf wrote: »

in fairness I think in the last 4 years if they really wanted to refuse service like that they would have found a way

One wonders if the printers knew. He might have turned him away on flimsy excuses before as you say, but it could be he was not aware.

Pumpkinseeds

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Not necessarily at all.

That worrying part for me is that they've been so open about why they refused service IMO. Like they think it's ok to be homophobes and use religion as a defense.

They were honest about their views, while I don't share their views there seems to be a growing trend of outing businesses that aren't gay friendly. There will always be bigots, unfortunately it's human nature, but why make life more difficult when he could just go somewhere else Why try to force someone to do something they don't want to do. It just becomes a pissing contest.

MadDog76

Akrasia wrote: »

Not when sexual orientation is one of the legally recognised grounds for discrimination.

If he had refused to print a wedding invite for an interracial couple because its against his religious belief, would that be ok?

The legislation relates to persons not material ...........

darkpagandeath

Akrasia wrote: »

Its not that tricky. The owner has explained his reasons for refusing to print the invitations, and it was entirely due to the sexual orientation of the couple involved

Nope, Was it not on the ceremony/material related to that.

The_Valeyard

Not sure where I stand on this.

Can I go into a printers run by Palestinians and demand invites to my Israeli Day party? Or into the Jewish Bakery and demand they make me a cake to celebrate the anniversary of the Wansee conference.

MadDog76

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think it is discrimination by the back door (no pun intended). It says "you're a filthy homo and I can't discriminate against you, but you have now given me the perfect excuse to do so and I can worm my way out of it on a technicality".

I agree that it was most likely discrimination (not legally of course) but I don't think you can accuse the printer of going behind the door about his discriminations, he was brutally honest if anything ..........

Akrasia

MadDog76 wrote: »

The legislation relates to persons not material ...........

That's like saying it's OK for a bar to refuse to serve alcohol to black people because they allow them to buy roasted peanuts

If the printer happily prints wedding invitations for Heterosexual couples, then it is discrimination to refuse a gay couple the same service

MadDog76

Roquentin wrote: »

Prejudice is a learned trait. You're not born prejudiced; you're taught it.
Charles R. Swindoll

It's human nature for people to look at other people who are different to themselves as ......... different!

Why/how people react to those differences is another matter entirely ..........

Kiwi in IE

nokia69 wrote: »

its not their sexuality thats the problem

its the invites they want him to make

he should have the right to tell them no if he wants

What a load of bollocks! "It's not their sexuality that's the problem it's the invites" you say? Do they have a general aversion to wedding invites? Strange to choose to own a printing company when you have some sort of a problem with wedding invites don't you think?

I have argued this same issue endlessly in the cake thread and it is amazing the way apologists will twist things. You are actually right that it is not the sexuality that is the problem, it is the homophobic bigotry that is the problem!

Donkey Oaty

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Not sure where I stand on this.

Can I go into a printers run by Palestinians and demand invites to my Israeli Day party? Or into the Jewish Bakery and demand they make me a cake to celebrate the anniversary of the Wansee conference.

If they are business-minded, they'll both take the money.

If they are business-minded and marketing/publicity savvy, they'll refuse it on principle to bolster their market base.

If they are genuinely political they'll accept the order, but I'd give those leaflets a good proof-read, and I wouldn't be the first to eat the cake.

The_Valeyard

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

If they are business-minded, they'll both take the money.

If they are business-minded and marketing/publicity savvy, they'll refuse it on principle to bolster their market base.

If they are genuinely political they'll accept the order, but I'd give those leaflets a good proof-read, and I wouldn't be the first to eat the cake.

Depends how tasty the cake was.....

K4t

Akrasia wrote: »

Its not that tricky. The owner has explained his reasons for refusing to print the invitations, and it was entirely due to the sexual orientation of the couple involved

We are not against homosexuals, however, we do not support same sex marriage

As much as you might like, and are entitled to, create your own narrative of events, the statement released by the company and the fact that the company has done business with the man for 4 years prior, suggests that you are incorrect in your assumption.

Donkey Oaty

Just wondering - and sorry to Godwin this, but it was a real issue for many businesses throughout Europe - would you have supplied services to the Nazis?

MadDog76

Akrasia wrote: »

Its not that tricky. The owner has explained his reasons for refusing to print the invitations, and it was entirely due to the sexual orientation of the couple involved

Incorrect ........... it was entirely due to the sexual nature of the material involved.

K4t

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Not sure where I stand on this.

Can I go into a printers run by Palestinians and demand invites to my Israeli Day party? Or into the Jewish Bakery and demand they make me a cake to celebrate the anniversary of the Wansee conference.

Of course, and they can refuse, though the hope is that business transcends religious belief, prejudice and bigotry, and that they would agree to the request. Your example is more a reflection of how religions are not only intolerant of homosexuals, but also of each other.