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Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

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13567…57

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    #62
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    I always said the bakers up north were in their right to design a cake for an lgbt group if it was against their beliefs but that was because they wouldn't design the same cake for anyone. However even though these printers seemed happy to serve this customer up until now there is no reason to believe they knew he was gay and as they already print and sell wedding invitations to straight people this does seem like discrimination.


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    #63
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Did they know he was gay before the wedding invites job?
    Eh, if I walked in there tomorrow and asked for the same job they'd refuse me too. Am I being discriminated against because of my sexuality (i.e. heterosexual) ?


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    #64
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Cormac... wrote: »
    But we can be friends Links and do all sorts of Japanesey things :(

    What sort of things? Make onigiri? And katsudon?


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    #65
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Did they know he was gay before the wedding invites job?

    I don't know .......... however even if the printer decides that he won't do business with homosexuals or ginger people or people from Cork then that is his right ......... why should an individual be forced to run his/her business based on your opinion?


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    How is it obvious?


    For a start, when you walk in the door there's a TV displaying a cheesy, christian recruit-y type video.


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    #67
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    I always said the bakers up north were in their right to design a cake for an lgbt group if it was against their beliefs but that was because they wouldn't design the same cake for anyone. However even though these printers seemed happy to serve this customer up until now there is no reason to believe they knew he was gay and as they already print and sell wedding invitations to straight people this does seem like discrimination.

    It is undoubtedly discrimination (in my opinion anyway) but who are you/me/anybody to discriminate against the printer's right to choice?


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    #68
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    however even if the printer decides that he won't do business with homosexuals or ginger people or people from Cork then that is his right ......... why should an individual be forced to run his/her business based on your opinion?

    Rights are a legal thing, decided by lawmakers.


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    #69
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #70
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    For a start, when you walk in the door there's a TV displaying a cheesy, christian recruit-y type video.

    Seriously? I can't stand religious types who have to drag it into their professional arena.


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    #71
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    It is undoubtedly discrimination (in my opinion anyway) but who are you/me/anybody to discriminate against the printer's right to choice?

    We have anti-discrimination laws. We are not discriminating against the printer because we don't allow anyone to discriminate (well in theory we don't with unfair exceptions for the Catholic church and the publicans but that's another issue).


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    #72
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Rights are a legal thing, decided by lawmakers.

    Exactly .......... and those same legal rights apply to the printer in question ........ keep in mind that he didn't actually do anything illegal by refusing to print what he found to be questionable material.


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    #73
    Specialun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭Specialun


    Im surprised this story is getting somuch attension

    I listened to niall boylan last night where it all began

    Alot of the posters here and online sites are forgetting alot of key information

    First of all the printers didnt just go "ah here you like man, fook off" and the guy ran out of the shop crying

    The business was declined not because of the guy being gay, it was because the owners are against gay marraige/civil partnerships because of their strong religeos beliefs

    The owner of the printing company was very respectful imo. He called to the salon, asked to speak to the guy in private. This was declined and the owner had to give his reason s infront of clients on the shop floor...

    The guy in question imo ismilking the living sh!te out of it


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    #74
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    Specialun wrote: »
    Im surprised this story is getting somuch attension

    I listened to niall boylan last night where it all began

    Alot of the posters here and online sites are forgetting alot of key information

    First of all the printers didnt just go "ah here you like man, fook off" and the guy ran out of the shop crying

    The business was declined not because of the guy being gay, it was because the owners are against gay marraige/civil partnerships because of their strong religeos beliefs

    The owner of the printing company was very respectful imo. He called to the salon, asked to speak to the guy in private. This was declined and the owner had to give his reason s infront of clients on the shop floor...

    The guy in question imo ismilking the living sh!te out of it


    SSssshsh with the facts, the free stuff is rolling in


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    #75
    BetterThanThou
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭BetterThanThou


    As a gay man, I can say I'm not really bothered by this. If people want to exercise their religious views, so be it. I just won't give him any of my business, nor would I associate myself with someone with such beliefs. I'm totally accepting of someone exercising their beliefs, whether I agree with it or not.


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    #76
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    K4t wrote: »
    Ideally, what would happen here is that people (gay and non-gay) would boycott the store, forcing the storeowners to change their policy (and hopefully ridiculous religious views), or to go out of business.

    Thought you were all for free speech and that?


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    #77
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Like it or not there are a lot of people in Ireland who would share his beliefs and may be prone to use his services based on this situation thus possibly creating new business opportunities for the printer ......... conversely those same people may stop using a particular printer solely because he/she prints material which they may find objectionable thus losing business for that printer ......... it works both ways.

    Why would I like it, it's backwards and these sort of beliefs have no place in modern Ireland.
    Many things that were once accepted as being right are now considered wrong.

    Hopefully this place will lose business and it should be a lesson to everyone.
    Discrimination on sexuality has no place in Ireland.


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    #78
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    A shop has every right to refuse a service is they wish. Anti-discrimination legislation is a joke, and its hilarious to see all the moral crusaders on the companies Facebook page going off the deep end at them. If only they were this concerned over, you know, actual issues that matter.


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    #79
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Exactly .......... and those same legal rights apply to the printer in question ........ keep in mind that he didn't actually do anything illegal by refusing to print what he found to be questionable material.

    You may well be right about that interpretation.

    The thing is, people are confusing "rights" with "what should be rights".

    The difficulty for people like myself is wondering how to morally adjudicate on where rights collide, which they do all the time.


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    #80
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    We have anti-discrimination laws. We are not discriminating against the printer because we don't allow anyone to discriminate (well in theory we don't with unfair exceptions for the Catholic church and the publicans but that's another issue).

    And those anti-discrimination laws don't apply in this case ......... the printer exercised his right to refuse business.

    It amazes me that people here are angry at the printer because he was honest more so than because he refused to print the material.
    If the law is changed then people like him would not change their views or policies ........ they would simply invent a reason not to do business with certain people/groups ........ so what would be the point.


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    #81
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    I swear, at times I despair.
    How the hell were these people(printers)tying their shoelaces, never mind running what would seem to be a fairly successful business?
    I mean, unless they were asked to print graphic sexual images of two guys shagging, and I highly doubt that considering these were wedding invitations, what the hell kind of infringement on their religious beliefs did printing these invites really cause?
    Its seems to be bigotry for bigotrys sake.


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    #82
    JohnBee
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭JohnBee


    This is the usual baiting that is spouted by the "oppressed".

    It seems most people have difficulty separating the business relationship (i.e. that exists between printer and customer, in this case a gay man), and also the task at hand, printing an invitation.

    If the gay couple's wedding planner (who for argument's sake was a straight married man with children) came into the store and was denied the printing of the invitations, would people still view it as discrimination? Or just the business ethos.

    Similarly, if those who are pro-choice are denied printing, is that discrimination?

    The fact that this discussion even exists is a sign of the ridiculousness of the situation that exists. In fact, if we think if discrimination against gays in Ireland, it seems we are faring pretty good. We don't hear in the news of businesses refusing to serve or deal with gay people, surely a good sign that Ireland has matured in its attitudes. The fact that every business doesn't want to do what they are told (whether it is by a gay or straight person) is a separate issue, and is not necessarily a sign of discrimination.

    This man is clearly quite religious and carries that everywhere in his life. It is highly likely that he has turned down requests before that dont fit with his ethos. However, because clearly those individuals where not disadvantaged females, gay, or non-caucasion, we dont hear about it. He has not discriminated against this man as he has served him for 4 years.

    The gay community has to grow up and learn to pick the battles to chose. This ain't one of them.


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    #83
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    Clandestine wrote: »
    If only they were this concerned over, you know, actual issues that matter.

    So a large section of Irish society not being afforded equal rights doesn't matter? Just so I'm clear where you're coming from on this.


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    #84
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    It's amazing how quick mob/herd mentality forms when an issue like this arises. Don't get me wrong, I don't support their stance one bit and am in no way religious but just had a look at their Facebook page their and it is being bombarded with comments including:
    These shower of uneducated rats should be shut down...homophobic scumbags

    and (on a picture of their building)
    Hope it falls down on top of them!

    People shouldn't use social media to hide behind comments they wouldn't dare say to someones face.


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    #85
    Cuban Pete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭Cuban Pete


    Clandestine wrote: »
    A shop has every right to refuse a service is they wish. Anti-discrimination legislation is a joke, and its hilarious to see all the moral crusaders on the companies Facebook page going off the deep end at them. If only they were this concerned over, you know, actual issues that matter.

    It's okay, we already know what libertarians think on the matter.


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    #86
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,518 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Not sure if it went ahead or not but there was a push to prevent discrimination against those worth convictions.

    Would anyone have issues with a business refusing someone based on this.

    If iona wanted something printed to promote a no vote on marriage equality a printer should be able to refuse, same with a venue refusing to host their events.


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    #87
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    pconn062 wrote: »
    It's amazing how quick mob/herd mentality forms when an issue like this arises. Don't get me wrong, I don't support their stance one bit and am in no way religious but just had a look at their Facebook page their and it is being bombarded with comments including:



    and (on a picture of their building)



    People shouldn't use social media to hide behind comments they wouldn't dare say to someones face.


    Be great someday if some journalist tracked down the people who makes comments like this and ask them to 'clarify' their remarks.


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    #88
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Why would I like it, it's backwards and these sort of beliefs have no place in modern Ireland.
    Many things that were once accepted as being right are now considered wrong.

    Hopefully this place will lose business and it should be a lesson to everyone.
    Discrimination on sexuality has no place in Ireland.

    Says who? You?? Thankfully we live in a country were the opinions of a few cannot force an individual to bend to the will of others.


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    #89
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    So a large section of Irish society not being afforded equal rights doesn't matter?
    What do you mean by that? This is a business refusing to make a cake for a gay couple because they don't support gay marriage, where does "equal rights" come into it?


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    #90
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Varik wrote: »
    Not sure if it went ahead or not but there was a push to prevent discrimination against those worth convictions.

    Would anyone have issues with a business refusing someone based on this.

    If iona wanted something printed to promote a no vote on marriage equality a printer should be able to refuse, same with a venue refusing to host their events.

    I usually find it's only Discrimination when it's the right group involved.


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    #91
    Timmyctc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    Are we not having a referendum on Gay Marriage. Would it be discrimination to vote 'No'? The fact we're having a referendum means people are entitled to believe gay people deserve the right to marry and some people clearly do not. The self-employed man politely exercised his right to the latter imo and should be able to. Not that I agree with him a single iota, mind you, I'll certainly be voting yes in the referendum. I'd bet good money that he'd refuse to print pro-choice material if I asked him to do it and no one would accuse him of being anti-Donegalian :


This discussion has been closed.
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