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Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

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    #2
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Saw this on facebuke earlier. Their shop is on Fair St. The ironing is delicious.


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    #3
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    They have dealt with him in the past so they haven't discriminated against him because he is gay strictly speaking. I don't agree with them. Fair enough if their Christianity is important to how they conduct their business but they should make that known in their branding. Their excuse is bull anyway. I doubt they would turn down a straight couple having a civil wedding or who had kids outside marriage.


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    #4
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Some people are disgraceful, why does their sexuality matter at all.


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    #5
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    How is it discrimination? Jonathon Brennan said "I've given them business for 4 years". They didn't discriminate against him; they told him they were unable to fulfill his request.


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    #6
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    How is it discrimination? Jonathon Brennan said "I've given them business for 4 years". They didn't discriminate against him; they told him they were unable to fulfill his request.

    They discriminated against his sexual orientation.


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    #7
    AndonHandon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭AndonHandon


    "Pair of qwayers", the businessman was reported as saying before he went on to explain that they didn't have glitter ink anyway.


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    #8
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    "We believe the love of God is extended to all people and that He has us all to walk in the light of His word, he He is the way, the truth and the life"

    And for this reason they won't print off some flyers. How do they not see the glorious irony right here.


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    #9
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    Some people are disgraceful, why does their sexuality matter at all.

    its not their sexuality thats the problem

    its the invites they want him to make

    he should have the right to tell them no if he wants


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    #10
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    How is it discrimination? Jonathon Brennan said "I've given them business for 4 years". They didn't discriminate against him; they told him they were unable to fulfill his request.

    They refused a service based on his sexual orientation. That's basically the definition of discrimination.


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    #11
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    nokia69 wrote: »
    its not their sexuality thats the problem

    its the invites they want him to make

    he should have the right to tell them no if he wants

    If it's a cake he wanted made, the printers had the right to refuse him ;)


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    #12
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    I know I will get slated, But No one has the right to have a business do work for them. Both parties enter into a contract so if either do not want to. This needs to be put into the discrimination legislation. As at the moment it's not Illegal. But it's hard to prove anyway in a lot of cases the shop may just refuse to serve a black or gay or other Religion Its up to the aggrieved party to prove intent. On a side note if it was the In Religion at the moment refusing on Beliefs most people would be on going “As is Their Right” and all that.


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    #13
    Frynge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Frynge


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    They refused a service based on his sexual orientation. That's basically the definition of discrimination.

    If you read what you quoted you would see that that is blatantly not the case.


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    #14
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    I strongly suspect that a lot more businesses would do likewise if they thought they could get away with it, and therein lies the issue. It's not just about cakes, or it's not just about this issue, it's about what would happen if businesses as a whole could get away with discriminating against people because of their sexuality.

    Try and imagine living in a town where the local corner shop refused your business because their religious sensibilities disapproved of your "lifestyle" and you have to go across town and out of your way to do your shopping, or that the local coffee shop refused to serve you for the same, or that you couldn't go to a particular restaurant with friends because they too refuse to serve you. Maybe your friends don't ask you out for drinks because they have to pick the one place that will serve your type and they'd rather go elsewhere for a change. Imagine you couldn't do your business because a print shop won't supply you, imagine having an extra hard time looking for housing, or looking for employment. Now try and imagine how shoved to the sidelines of society you'd feel in that situation, how isolated you'd be, and how difficult it would be to just live your life as normal. Imagine being refused medical treatment!

    That's what people like me fear.


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    #15
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Ideally, what would happen here is that people (gay and non-gay) would boycott the store, forcing the storeowners to change their policy (and hopefully ridiculous religious views), or to go out of business.


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    #16
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I know I will get slated, But No one has the right to have a business do work for them. Both parties enter into a contract so if either do not want to. This needs to be put into the discrimination legislation. As at the moment it's not Illegal. But it's hard to prove anyway in a lot of cases the shop may just refuse to serve a black or gay or other Religion Its up to the aggrieved party to prove intent. On a side not if it was the In Religion at the moment refusing on Beliefs most people would be on going “As is Their Right” and all that.

    But to refuse to do work for someone based on gender/race/sexuality/age is discrimination.

    Thing is, if they'd just said no they wouldn't need to defend themselves. They openly admit it's because they're holy rollers.


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    #17
    Frynge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Frynge


    What el dangeroso says below is the point I was (badly) trying to make. He says it a lot better than I ever could.


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    #18
    entropi
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 21,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭entropi


    Surely there are other printing companies nearby who will fulfil this request? I have a feeling the owner of the business involved might see a drop in business due to this news spreading around.

    I often wonder if people who proclaim stuff like this "offends them due to their religion" live to the extent of what their religion defines what is okay and what is not. I doubt it.


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    #19
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Frynge wrote: »
    It is really the same as a printer refusing to print invites to a children's peadophile party or an upcoming al quaida convention.

    I seriously hope this is you trying to parody what some right-wing religous nutcase would say.


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    #20
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    I hope these good bible following Christians have stayed true to their word and stoned their sons to death if they stepped out of line, and themselves if they've ever blasphemed. Hope they havnt worked on the Sabbath either.


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    #21
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Should these people be forced to do work that they dont want to do?


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    #22
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    nokia69 wrote: »
    its not their sexuality thats the problem

    its the invites they want him to make

    he should have the right to tell them no if he wants

    Man!

    If you're not condoning police racism in Ferguson you're condoning sexual bigotry in Drogheda.


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    #23
    Cuban Pete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭Cuban Pete


    Frynge wrote: »
    If you read what you quoted you would see that that is blatantly not the case.

    Actually, it makes a strong case for this being discrimination. If they do business for four years but then only stop when homosexuality enters the equation it at the very least heavily implies the only reason they're refusing business in this one instance is related to that.


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    #24
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    Frynge wrote: »
    It is really the same as a printer refusing to print invites to a children's peadophile party or an upcoming al quaida convention.

    Refusing to print something that's involved in illegal activity (kiddie fiddling and terrorism both being that) is sliiiightly different.


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    #25
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    I posted about this at the end of the "Marriage thread" and then saw this here so deleted my comment.
    To people saying that a business has the right to refuse services, I'm not sure thats entirely correct.
    If a shop refused to serve a Muslim or a Chinese person(or whatever)they would be guilty of discrimination and reprimanded.
    And rightly so.

    Why is it still, in this day and age, seen as permissible to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation?


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    #26
    sadie06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭sadie06


    Frynge wrote: »
    It is really the same as a printer refusing to print invites to a children's peadophile party or an upcoming al quaida convention.

    You are right. It's exactly the same…….. in no way whatsoever!

    I've heard about people who make statements like that, but never actually overheard one, or seen one being posted in real time.

    I despair…..


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    #27
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Should these people be forced to do work that they dont want to do?

    They're openly discriminating against someone based on sexual orientation. This should be publicized so that any sane minded folk can boycott them.


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    #28
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    They're openly discriminating against someone based on sexual orientation. This should be publicized so that any sane minded folk can boycott them.
    Indeed, let the market decide.


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    #29
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    They refused a service based on his sexual orientation. That's basically the definition of discrimination.

    They didn't refuse to serve him because he is gay, they refused to serve this specific request because they don't agree with it. Did you not read where the man himself said he did business with them for 4 years previously? Not being able to fulfill one request is different to discrimination...


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    #30
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #31
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    eviltwin wrote: »
    They discriminated against his sexual orientation.
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    They refused a service based on his sexual orientation. That's basically the definition of discrimination.

    it's not the individual they object to (they've done business with him for four years), it's the material they object to .......... and they are well within their rights both morally and legally to refuse to put their name/reputation to a product for whatever reason.
    It's not a public service, it's their business ........ nobody has the right to remove the printer's right to choice.


This discussion has been closed.
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