Proposed Public sector pay rises

Rightwing

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

But aren't existing teachers still the third best paid in the OECD?

You mustn't be aware, sure aren't teachers & farmers the most persecuted of all in society ?

Gumbo

Valmont wrote: »

When weekly public wages are nearly 50% higher than private weekly wages then, yes, I think we can conclusively say that the Irish 'public servants' are grossly overpaid. Especially when it is those very private sector workers being taxed to pay them in the first place. I personally cannot wait for the day we have a politician brave enough to take on these parasitic unions.

"I pay your wages".

It only took 9 pages.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

You mustn't be aware, sure aren't teachers & farmers the most persecuted of all in society ?

Farmers are public sector workers now,are they?

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

Farmers are public sector workers now,are they?

I don't foolishly align myself to any sector or section in society. It's the state of the economy that concerns me.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

I don't foolishly align myself to any sector or section in society. It's the state of the economy that concerns me.

Very noble of you I'm sure.

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

Very noble of you I'm sure.

The word you are searching for is rational.

chopper6

kceire wrote: »

"I pay your wages".

It only took 9 pages.

In fairness he didn't say he had a job..only that the PS are grossly overpaid...all 300,000 of them!

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

The word you are searching for is rational.

Begrudging would be another one.

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

Begrudging would be another one.

Well if I begrudge workers in the PS, I also begrudge the likes of farmers in the private sector who get large grants from others' taxes (many of these often less well-off than the farmer). So at least we have a level of consistency in the private sector and look at each on merit.

heybaby

Any pay rises whatsoever should be performance related. Giving across the board pay increases without some increase in efficiency / productivity is nuts. I firmly believe that no public servants should be on permanent contracts.

Performance reviews should be ongoing and performance indicators adhered to and if an employee falls short, regardless of length of service or seniority then they should be shown the door.

For far too long public service jobs have been seen as a job for life where ambition, productivity, efficiency and urgency are forgotten from day one. The public service employees must be divested of their inherent sense of entitlement and brought into the 21st century where your job never mind your pay rise could be gone at the end of the week, such is the brutal reality in the private sector. The disparity between the public and private sectors is still baffling and must be addressed for the sake of equality.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Well if I begrudge workers in the PS, I also begrudge the likes of farmers in the private sector who get large grants from others' taxes (many of these often less well-off than the farmer). So at least we have a level of consistency in the private sector and look at each on merit.

Farmers aren't the only ones...the IDA and Enterprise Ireland ( both PS quangos) pay out huge amounts of money to the private sector.

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

Farmers aren't the only ones...the IDA and Enterprise Ireland ( both PS quangos) pay out huge amounts of money to the private sector.

Well they don't pay out of their own pockets, they are using other private sector workers (and PS workers) taxes for this. But I agree with your point. It's completely wrong. Another failing of the public sector.

chopper6

heybaby wrote: »

Any pay rises whatsoever should be performance related. Giving across the board pay increases without some increase in efficiency / productivity is nuts. I firmly believe that no public servants should be on permanent contracts.

Performance reviews should be ongoing and performance indicators adhered to and if an employee falls short, regardless of length of service or seniority then they should be shown the door.

For far too long public service jobs have been seen as a job for life where ambition, productivity, efficiency and urgency are forgotten from day one. The public service employees must be divested of their inherent sense of entitlement and brought into the 21st century where your job never mind your pay rise could be gone at the end of the week, such is the brutal reality in the private sector. The disparity between the public and private sectors is still baffling and must be addressed for the sake of equality.

You don't know what you're talking about.

There are no more "jobs for life" in the PS..its almost all contracts.

All new staff must complete a one year probationary period and increments are only awarded on completion of satisfactory service.


Further promotions are hotly contested and are not given to people for no reason...experience, education and competence are just a few of the things applicants are judged on.

And unlike parts of the private sector there has been no decrease in demand for public services...despite hugely reduced wages,a lack of job opportunities and little chance of a permanent contract at the moment.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Well they don't pay out of their own pockets, they are using other private sector workers (and PS workers) taxes for this. But I agree with your point. It's completely wrong. Another failing of the public sector.

How else are they going to attract FMCs to remote parts of the country?

Stick an ad in the Longford Leader?

Uncle Ben

heybaby wrote: »

Any pay rises whatsoever should be performance related. Giving across the board pay increases without some increase in efficiency / productivity is nuts. I firmly believe that no public servants should be on permanent contracts.

Performance reviews should be ongoing and performance indicators adhered to and if an employee falls short, regardless of length of service or seniority then they should be shown the door.

For far too long public service jobs have been seen as a job for life where ambition, productivity, efficiency and urgency are forgotten from day one. The public service employees must be divested of their inherent sense of entitlement and brought into the 21st century where your job never mind your pay rise could be gone at the end of the week, such is the brutal reality in the private sector. The disparity between the public and private sectors is still baffling and must be addressed for the sake of equality.

If the above didn't happen in 08 or 09 it's not gonna happen now. The financial emergency is over. The employer, (Govt) have stated that. Oh and by the way performance reviews are undertaken on an annual basis. It's just unfortunate it would appear for some, that IBEC don't carry them out.

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

How else are they going to attract FMCs to remote parts of the country?

Stick an ad in the Longford Leader?

Good one. Cork remote, so let's pay Apple massive cash. Last time I looked at their reserves, they had $95bln cash sitting there. Good ole bankrupt Ireland to the rescue.

Chuckle chuckle.

Halloween Jack

Rightwing wrote: »

Good one. Cork remote, so let's pay Apple massive cash. Last time I looked at their reserves, they had $500m cash sitting there. Good ole bankrupt Ireland to the rescue.

Chuckle chuckle.

If private sector corporations like apple paid even a fraction of the tax they should some of that cash might be circulating in the economy rather than sitting in an account gathering dust and interest...

Rightwing

Halloween Jack wrote: »

If private sector corporations like apple paid even a fraction of the tax they should some of that cash might be circulating in the economy rather than sitting in an account gathering dust and interest...

Correct, and it would mean paying less tax for us citizens.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Good one. Cork remote, so let's pay Apple massive cash. Last time I looked at their reserves, they had $500m cash sitting there. Good ole bankrupt Ireland to the rescue.

Chuckle chuckle.

A waste of money IMO...these companies will relocate overseas sooner or later and the non unionised,non pensioned staff will be whining to the independent like what happened in Dell.

Of course anybody working for an outfit like that is thinking of themselves and only in the short term at that.

The Muppet

fliball123 wrote: »

A poster sent you a link showing PS are paid 50% on average, thats not even mentioning the myriad of reports that suggest the Ireland has one of the high paid public services in the OCED.

Every worker pays taxes and expect something in return not just to feather nest 300k workers and the ex workers for overpayment and for their pensions.

Take a worker for example me and my typical day and what I phucking have to pay in taxation. and not even bringing in the cost of services such as heat and light for phuck sake

I wake up in the morning in my bed within my house
Taxes paid - Stamp duty, property tax, VAT on my bed and mattress, duvet, sheets and pillows.

I decide to have a shower
Taxes paid - VAT on the electricity, shampoo and water charges

I go down and make make breakie toast and a coffee
Taxes paid - VAT on elecy, toaster and kettle and water charges

I leave the house and jump in the car to go to work
Taxes paid - Road tax, Carbon tax and VAT on petol, Vat on insurance, VRT on car, toll bridge and NCT

I arrive into work and work till lunch 9/10 hours
Tax paid - Income tax, Usc, PRSI

I drive home - See above

Make some dinner - See above for breakie

I watch some telly
See above for using elecy add in TV license

Also other service and bills that I need to pay for
Bin service/nessecities - used to be covered by general taxation
Creche fees
ESB
GAS
Food
Clothes
Mortgage


Now after all of this I still have to pay if I go to a doctor or hospital and worse still I get the pleasure of paying for the thousands that are on the dole to go aswell.

Now you tell me buddy am I over paying for services in this country

ans - PHUCK YES I AM

What about the fact that out of the 200billion in debt only 40billion (which may decrease as time goes on) is for the banks..who is to blame for the other 160 odd billion?


That does not include the fact that we are on the ledge for ridiculous pensions schemes for the PS

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/Irish_Economy/article_1025888_printer.shtml

have a quick look at this aswell
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2014/09/01/public-sector-the-insider-story

Good Man, Public servants have all those too plus an enforced pension contribution, So im sure you see the need for a pay rise after years of enforced reductions to their take home pay in line with what is happening in the private sector.

Halloween Jack

Rightwing wrote: »

Correct, and it would mean paying less tax for us citizens.

Absolutely, this private public nonsense is a smokescreen, people getting all hot and bothered about it are being had...

n97 mini

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Let's see some data.
You do realise that new teachers wages have decreased by over 25% of what they were.

New entrants only. The existing teachers unions voted to keep their own pay, at the expense of their future colleages. Nice. "Pulling up the ladder after them" was used to describe what they did.

http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/teachers-pay/

Rightwing

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Absolutely, this private public nonsense is a smokescreen, people getting all hot and bothered about it are being had...

Sectors of it have it bad, small business owners up and down the country, I'd feel for them, paying outrageous rates etc.

enricoh

increments are only awarded on completion of satisfactory service!

yeh i read about that completion of satisfactory performance bit alright. apparently 99 n a half % in the ps are doing great work n got theirs paid. i'd love to see what work the 0.5 % do for a year, god bless the unions keeping them unsackable!

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Sectors of it have it bad, small business owners up and down the country, I'd feel for them, paying outrageous rates etc.

Maybe they should lower their prices or provide a worthwhile service.


I see publicans are trying to stop wetherspoons expanding in the country because it will " destroy the uniqueness" of the Irish pub.


They've already blamed the drink driving ban and the smoking ban for their decreased revenue but they've upped their prices just the same.

Halloween Jack

Rightwing wrote: »

Sectors of it have it bad, small business owners up and down the country, I'd feel for them, paying outrageous rates etc.

But the point I'm making is that this ordinary workers against each other is just a diversion. To my mind there is very little difference between me (ps) and a private worker doing a similar job. We both have similar aspirations motivations etc, there is however a vast difference between the both of us and those at the apex of our organisations...

Uncle Ben

I really can't see what the problem is here. Since Croke Park 1 and right through Haddington Road Agreement everyone involved, both unions and employers knew that this day was imminent. Anyone who read a newspaper should know it also as every detail was scrutinised.
Methinks the real reason is envy, jealousy or as someone else said begrudgery.
I won't be shy about looking for pay demands.

barneystinson

Halloween Jack wrote: »

If private sector corporations like apple paid even a fraction of the tax they should some of that cash might be circulating in the economy rather than sitting in an account gathering dust and interest...

What tax do you think Apple should owe here?

chopper6

enricoh wrote: »

increments are only awarded on completion of satisfactory service!

yeh i read about that completion of satisfactory performance bit alright. apparently 99 n a half % in the ps are doing great work n got theirs paid. i'd love to see what work the 0.5 % do for a year, god bless the unions keeping them unsackable!

99.5% efficiency is a good thing.


You wouldn't see that in the private sector

Halloween Jack

enricoh wrote: »

increments are only awarded on completion of satisfactory service!

yeh i read about that completion of satisfactory performance bit alright. apparently 99 n a half % in the ps are doing great work n got theirs paid. i'd love to see what work the 0.5 % do for a year, god bless the unions keeping them unsackable!

As a ps worker I would agree the application of performance management is awful, however, I have worked in private sector orgs with similar flaws. In both sectors I've come across many highly professional people and plenty of spoofers too...