Shootings in Paris - Multiple fatalities.

conorhal

ireland.man wrote: »

There's a sense of giddiness in this thread. Some posters seem gleeful about this sickening attack, as if they're more delighted to have something to attack Islam for rather than sympathy for the victims. Jokes, emoticons, constant posts about nothing... It's like a mini- right wing festival in here right now. Maybe we should tone down the mood and be a little more respectful and sober.

But how would you manage to mount your high horse without all that to stand on?

TheJackAttack

The scary thing is that these animals are still on the run in Paris. I suspect if they are identified they will not be taken without a firefight.

I hope there are no more casualties.

Paul_Hacket

kstand wrote: »

Who is this "we"? What did Ireland have to do with Iraq or Iran? Or France for that matter?[/QUOT

By 'we' I wasn't referrring to Ireland but instead to the default position in the West that these people are simply religious fanatics when in fact the energizing principle behind this conflict has been entirely based upon political repression of the Middle East by the West.

And by the way, I seem to recall numerous US military planes using our airports to ferry troops back and forth to Iraq. Which was perfectly fine because sure if we didn't go along with a bit of butchery in the Middle East Intel might pull out of Ireland, right?

nokia69

ireland.man wrote: »

There's a sense of giddiness in this thread. Some posters seem gleeful about this sickening attack, as if they're more delighted to have something to attack Islam for rather than sympathy for the victims. Jokes, emoticons, constant posts about nothing... It's like a mini- right wing festival in here right now. Maybe we should tone down the mood and be a little more respectful and sober.

it not a left Vs right argument

Nodin

inforfun wrote: »

Yes, i did indeed.

Ok, you win. The demonstrations in the Islamic parts of the world against the attacks of 9/11, Madrid. London and the likes are legendary.
In fact, have they stopped yet?

And now the attempt to shift the goalposts...You stated there was "silence". The fact is that there was everything from condemnation to fatwas against ISIS. You don't want to see that though, so it didn't come up on your radar.

SpaceTime

What's worrying is people are attempting to justify this.
There's no justification for shooting up an office killing 13 people over a cartoon. Just none.

If anyone else did something like this you'd be looking as spending you life in a secure psychiatric unit.

It's simply despicable behaviour and it's a direct attack on freedom of speech and on the French media.

Amazingfun

Waterford Whispers just updated their cover photo on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/WhispersNews

kstand

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

kstand wrote: »

Who is this "we"? What did Ireland have to do with Iraq or Iran? Or France for that matter?[/QUOT

By 'we' I wasn't referrring to Ireland but instead to the default position in the West that these people are simply religious fanatics when in fact the energizing principle behind this conflict has been entirely based upon political repression of the Middle East by the West.

And by the way, I seem to recall numerous US military planes using our airports to ferry troops back and forth to Iraq. Which was perfectly fine because sure if we didn't go along with a bit of butchery in the Middle East Intel might pull out of Ireland, right?

We werent involved in any conflict.
But what you're saying is fine - that more than justifies the shooting dead of innocent people in France and wherever else.

Grand Moff Tarkin

TheJackAttack wrote: »

The scary thing is that these animals are still on the run in Paris. I suspect if they are identified they will not be taken without a firefight.

I hope there are no more casualties.

I hope they are taken alive and locked up and kept alive for a very long time. These lads are looking to go out in a blaze of glory to meet the prophet and the 72 virgins so better to hold off on that meeting for a long time.

Venus In Furs

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

By 'we' I wasn't referrring to Ireland but instead to the default position in the West that these people are simply religious fanatics when in fact the energizing principle behind this conflict has been entirely based upon political repression of the Middle East by the West.

So not "we" at all.

And by the way, I seem to recall numerous US military planes using our airports to ferry troops back and forth to Iraq. Which was perfectly fine because sure if we didn't go along with a bit of butchery in the Middle East Intel might pull out of Ireland, right?

And what about all the people who have protested and continue to protest it? Seriously, speak for yourself with your "we" bollocks.

To switch responsibility from IS is utterly disgusting.

Hande hoche!

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Euronews.com has this to say:



Assuming it is Islamic extremists rather than impersonators, it definitely points to a change of tactics.

False flag accusation? Usually occurs in these events.

LordNorbury

ireland.man wrote: »

There's a sense of giddiness in this thread. Some posters seem gleeful about this sickening attack, as if they're more delighted to have something to attack Islam for rather than sympathy for the victims. Jokes, emoticons, constant posts about nothing... It's like a mini- right wing festival in here right now. Maybe we should tone down the mood and be a little more respectful and sober.

I'm not seeing that, this is a huge incident I think, the very simple nature of it, versus the carnage that is unleashed, in an EU capital, with gunmen still running amok and police unable to locate them, the consequences of this I think are huge. This is a new type of terror attack that cannot be prevented once it kicks off, where you have a small number of radicalised men using very low technology that can kill hundreds of people in a minute or two (say if this happened in a shopping centre, you could have 100-200 people machined down within 2 minutes), and a strategy that creates one scene, kills as many innocent people as possible, then swiftly moves onto another scene, with cars and clothes being changed and balaclavas being used, regardless of what technology you give a police force, this type of terror attack is going to kill a lot of people.

shruikan2553

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm curious, can anybody link to some examples of people going into random shops/streets and killing innocent strangers in the name of God? Or any other religion apart from Islam?

Somebody mentioned Breivik earlier, but he didn't do his spree in the name of god so its not really relevant.

You can twist anything to be political or religious. It could be claimed that this was political as it was done to spread fear of ISIS. Hence why people scramble to find any alternative to the idea of any other religion killing other people.

Very rarely is there an attack done just for the sake of a religion, there is nearly always something else involved.

The Bould Rabbit

I just watched that video and actually think it should be made compulsory viewing as a realistic measure to demonstrate what these bastards actually do.

To those who ask, what about the dignity of the poor man as his last moments were filmed, I say, let this video be used in his memory to serve as a reminder of how evil these terrorists actually are. At least then his death won't be in vain.

People seem to think that these things only happen far away and so adopt an out of sight out of mind approach. That cosy attitude is akin to ignoring something bad in the hope that it will go away.

Well Islamic Jihadist terrorism isn't going away and its not that far away either. And by turning a blind eye to the reality of what happens, we only leave the door open for these bastards to return in even more vengeful religious fuelled hatred to commit worse atrocities.

RIP to those who died today but lets hope their deaths will help turn the minds of those who condone such futile acts of terrorism. Many of whom are living in our midst.

ireland.man

Remember too that this event in paris will have to happen 50,000 times more to equal the lower estimates of the number of Muslims killed since 2001 by western countries. If we want to avoid sickening terrorist incidents like this, we need to examine what we're doing overseas. It's not happening in a vacuum.

Tipsy McSwagger

Just seen the video of them executing the cop who was begging for his life and I will have to hold back what I really want to say or I'll be banned. I really hope these 2 bastards are found and beaten to death by a raging mob.

wretcheddomain

Paul Hackett
By 'we' I wasn't referrring to Ireland but instead to the default position in the West that these people are simply religious fanatics when in fact the energizing principle behind this conflict has been entirely based upon political repression of the Middle East by the West.

And by the way, I seem to recall numerous US military planes using our airports to ferry troops back and forth to Iraq. Which was perfectly fine because sure if we didn't go along with a bit of butchery in the Middle East Intel might pull out of Ireland, right?

You evaded my point.

Denmark went through a similar revolt after their own cartoon controversy. Denmark didn't invade Iraq, and was at the time a firm supporter of the Palestinian cause. If religion had nothing to do with it, why was Denmark subject to violence and intimidation?

The second point you make is even more preposterous. What you're suggesting is that Western foreign policy should be decided by Muslims - which is giving up in the very first instance. Given how you involve the US in much of your criticism, I'm sure you're aware that the US politically interfered in the Catholic country of Nicaragua a couple of decades ago.

Where were all the Catholic suicide bombers in Spain, Italy, Ireland, and the US?

peckerhead

SpaceTime wrote: »

...a direct attack on freedom of speech and on the French media.

This. Among the dead are the most high-profile political cartoonists/columnists in France — Cabu, Charb, Wolinski... (all highly critical in the past of French government policy).

bear1

Can anyone else see this situation further developing into a hostage scenario? And at the end both of them end it with a shoot out with the police where they are then subsequently killed?

Grand Moff Tarkin

Nodin wrote: »

And now the attempt to shift the goalposts...You stated there was "silence". The fact is that there was everything from condemnation to fatwas against ISIS. You don't want to see that though, so it didn't come up on your radar.

They will be celebrating in every Islamic state in the world over the deaths of 13 innocent people today.

eug87

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

So much irate nonsense written above by people on both sides. Tell me something, has everybody here forgotten that we bombed the **** out of Iraq for a laugh from 2003 onwards just because a bunch of pro-Israel people in Bush's cabinet don't like arabs? Or that the USA deposed the democratically elected president of Iran in 1953, installed a dictatorship and permanently destabilized the country? Oh, we also armed and encouraged both sides in the Iran-Iraq war, a conflict that killed millions. Just last week the USA smacked down the Palestinian bid at the UN to simply impose a deadline on illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory.

So therefore I suppose we can expect to continue with these insanely aggressive and antagonistic policies towards the people of the Middle East and then we are shocked, SHOCKED when extremists do horrible things out of frustration with the abject injustice of the situation. Makes tons of tense.

People are ****ing idiots. We get what we deserve.

I think some people want to get their facts right
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/22/germany.france
France opposed the Iraq invasion including many other European countries.
Yes they are supporting attacks against ISS.

This murder spree was on French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo which are known through France as a strong defender for freedom of speech,Cartoons of Mohammed were published few years back and caused many Muslims to feel angry.Cartoons of the pope and of every other religion were drawn plus Charlie Hebdo draw political figures from around the world.

Calina

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

I just watched that video and actually think it should be made compulsory viewing as a realistic measure to demonstrate what these bastards actually do.

I don't need to watch a video to understand what these people have done.

Why do you?

Palmach

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Who is this "we" you speak of? I didn't do any bombing in Iraq.

More to the point did the journalists at Charlie Hebdo bomb Iraq and Afghanistan? Didn't the French try and stop the bombing of Iraq.

Peist2007

While i dont deny that there is Muslim condemnation of these terrible events, i do think they need to do more. If ordinary Muslims want to truly integrate and be part of our society then they have to pull their socks up and sort this stuff out.

shruikan2553

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

They will be celebrating in every Islamic state in the world over the deaths of 13 innocent people today.

While you pretend you are morally superior to them.

BlaasForRafa

ireland.man wrote: »

Remember too that this event in paris will have to happen 50,000 times more to equal the lower estimates of the number of Muslims killed since 2001 by western countries. If we want to avoid sickening terrorist incidents like this, we need to examine what we're doing overseas. It's not happening in a vacuum.

"We"?

The french weren't involved in Iraq but hey nice justification for cold-blooded murder there.

Wibbs

For all the moral equivalent types out there saying all religions are the same, contrast the founders of the faiths in question, those considered the ultimate person. Buddhism; rich bloke seeks the secret to life, leaves family and wealth, goes into the wilderness, meditates, gets enlightened up, goes around spreading his message of contemplation and peace, dies peacefully after a long life doing so. Christianity; Poor bloke reckons he's the son of god, goes around as an itinerant preacher talking with the wretched and the unloved, talking of peace, love thy neighbour and the coming apocalypse, dies nailed to a tree. Islam, middle class trader, talks to god, starts to raid other tribes stuff, taking goods and women and kids as slaves, seeks out and kills or enslaves his enemies, forges a local empire and dies a rich man with 14 wives. Compare and contrast.

Now human nature will twist anything to its purpose and every religion on earth has done so. Human nature is also generally kind(contrary to popular) hence the vast majority of people regardless of religion will be equally kind. However of those three faith examples above, which one is the most likely to not require much in the way of interpretation to cause havoc?

Dyr

ireland.man wrote: »

Remember too that this event in paris will have to happen 50,000 times more to equal the lower estimates of the number of Muslims killed since 2001 by western countries. If we want to avoid sickening terrorist incidents like this, we need to examine what we're doing overseas. It's not happening in a vacuum.

What were the people in that newspaper doing overseas?


Regardless of creating the circumstances that give rise to fascism, you don't appease or make excuses for fascists, you stamp on them.

The Bould Rabbit

I just watched that video and actually think it should be made compulsory viewing as a realistic measure to demonstrate what these bastards actually do.

To those who ask, what about the dignity of the poor man as his last moments were filmed, I say, let this video be used in his memory to serve as a reminder of how evil these terrorists actually are. At least then his death won't be in vain.

People seem to think that these things only happen far away and so adopt an out of sight out of mind approach. That cosy attitude is akin to ignoring something bad in the hope that it will go away.

Well Islamic Jihadist terrorism isn't going away and its not that far away either. And by turning a blind eye to the reality of what happens, we only leave the door open for these bastards to return in even more vengeful religious fuelled hatred to commit worse atrocities.

RIP to those who died today but lets hope their deaths will help turn the minds of those who condone such futile acts of terrorism. Many of whom are living in our midst.

DeadHand

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

So much abject nonsense written above by people on both sides. Tell me something, has everybody here forgotten that we bombed the **** out of Iraq for a laugh from 2003 onwards just because a bunch of pro-Israel people in Bush's cabinet don't like arabs? Or that the USA deposed the democratically elected president of Iran in 1953, installed a dictatorship and permanently destabilized the country? Oh, we also armed and encouraged both sides in the Iran-Iraq war, a conflict that killed millions. Just last week the USA smacked down the Palestinian bid at the UN to simply impose a deadline on illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory.

So therefore I suppose we can expect to continue with these insanely aggressive and antagonistic policies towards the people of the Middle East and then we are shocked, SHOCKED when extremists do horrible things out of frustration with the abject injustice of the situation. Makes tons of tense.

People are ****ing idiots. We get what we deserve.

So, those innocent, ordinary French civilians DESERVED to die violently, in abject terror and pain because of the actions of a few American elites years ago?

A disgraceful post.