E2.50 pints should be outlawed, says FG TD

Beano

The_Captain wrote: »

Are you seriously going to argue the semantics of this with me?


Generic drug: similar, cheaper alternative to a branded product

i'm not arguing anything. just stating facts. all of the beers sold by wetherspoons are brands in their own right. just because you dont recognise does not make them a generic.

Daith

Geuze wrote: »

A pub is perfectly free to buy spirits from any supermarket for re-sale.

Fair enough but they should't be giving out about supermarkets and their prices then.

anncoates

Beano wrote: »

I cant see how any bar is paying €200 for a keg of heineken.

I think the point being made is that the bars have to take it at that or a whatever similar price thus meaning they have to sell it at higher prices to make a profit. And that the same game was presumably tried with JDW who broke rank and wouldn't do it.

Got to laugh as well at some of the decent beers on offer in JDW here being described as 'generic' in comparison to Heineken.

LuckyLloyd

anncoates wrote: »

I think the point being made is that the bars have to take it at that or a whatever similar price thus meaning they have to sell it at higher prices to make a profit. And that the same game was presumably tried with JDW who broke rank and wouldn't do it.

Got to laugh as well at some of the decent beers on offer in JDW here being described as 'generic' in comparison to Heineken.

Bottles of Goose Island for €2.50...'generic apparently'

Does anyone want to make an argument FOR Diageo? To me they represent anti choice; anti competition and artificial price inflation. Does someone want to argue the positives of their approach to the end consumer? I'd listen, promise.

Beano

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Bottles of Goose Island for €2.50...'generic apparently'

Does anyone want to make an argument FOR Diageo? To me they represent anti choice; anti competition and artificial price inflation. Does someone want to argue the positives of their approach to the end consumer? I'd listen, promise.

i bet you wouldnt last 10 seconds before you started to laugh

Highflyer13

anncoates wrote: »

I think the point being made is that the bars have to take it at that or a whatever similar price thus meaning they have to sell it at higher prices to make a profit. And that the same game was presumably tried with JDW who broke rank and wouldn't do it.

Got to laugh as well at some of the decent beers on offer in JDW here being described as 'generic' in comparison to Heineken.

Marketing budgets cloud the consumers perception.

Zebra3

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Last year JDW reported a before tax profit of £78.4 million, which was a 37% increase on the previous year. The TD claims that weatherspoons is a poor business, I think she needs to go back to economics 101.

A school teacher (public sector employee) cum TD (public sector employee).

Leinster House is full of people who have little or no experience in the private sector.

Edna being one of them.

anncoates

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Bottles of Goose Island for €2.50...'generic apparently'

Does anyone want to make an argument FOR Diageo? To me they represent anti choice; anti competition and artificial price inflation. Does someone want to argue the positives of their approach to the end consumer? I'd listen, promise.

I can't believe people would really be so mutton-headed as to be pro-monoploy and high prices.

It's either because they think that in 20 years, every pub in Ireland will be a JDW at the expense of 'traditional' pubs which is nonsense or that it's a colonial hangover thing because the chain is British.

On the chain thing, are people aware that in Dublin, pubs like Kehoes and the Stags Head (and others) are also part of a chain?

Zebra3

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Does anyone want to make an argument FOR Diageo? To me they represent anti choice; anti competition and artificial price inflation. Does someone want to argue the positives of their approach to the end consumer? I'd listen, promise.

1) They pay big money for great ads.

2) Great branding.

3) Eh....

4) That's about it.

Flex

Daith wrote: »

Fair enough but they should't be giving out about supermarkets and their prices then.

I always figured the complaints with regard to spirits and soft drinks was that the mark up is huge for the pub. A 700ml bottle of whiskey or vodka costs about €29 (that includes excise) giving 20 serves, so €1.45 each. Then say another 4 litres of mixer (20 x 200ml bottles) would cost maybe €3-€4 as a total cost to purchase, so about 20 cent per serve. So rough cost to serve a spirit and mixer is about €1.65, yet it's common to be charged circa €7.50. Can that actually be right, potentially about a 400%+ mark up on a spirit and mixer? Wetherspoons do double measures and a free mixer for €5.95

The soft drinks in glass bottles probably cost more in fairness but i don't think I've ever heard anyone complain getting their mixer as a dash from a 2 litre bottle unless it was completely flat.

VinLieger

Miss piggy is bombarding twitter with alcohol related stats and figures, of which absolutely zero would be impacted or fixed by minimum pricing

https://twitter.com/mitchelloconnor

Zebra3

VinLieger wrote: »

Miss piggy is bombarding twitter with alcohol related stats and figures, of which absolutely zero would be impacted or fixed by minimum pricing

https://twitter.com/mitchelloconnor

Embarrassing.

LordNorbury

More cartel protectionist nonsense. The brewers and the vintners have for years kept pub prices excessively high. Micro breweries and some long overdue innovation are finally breaking the stranglehold that the large brewing organisations in particular had on the on license industry. This is leading to a new way of doing things and new thinking, and we should be glad if it leads to reduced prices.

Prices in every other industry have dropped, margins in every other industry have dropped, but 6 years of recession haven't taken a single cent off the price of a pint or anything in a pub.

anncoates

VinLieger wrote: »

Miss piggy is bombarding twitter with alcohol related stats and figures, of which absolutely zero would be impacted or fixed by minimum pricing

https://twitter.com/mitchelloconnor

So:

Irish alcohol consumption is way above OCED average

Alcohol prices here are among the most expensive in the EU

But cheap alcohol is the cause of excess alcohol consumption



I'm confused.

shruikan2553

VinLieger wrote: »

Miss piggy is bombarding twitter with alcohol related stats and figures, of which absolutely zero would be impacted or fixed by minimum pricing

https://twitter.com/mitchelloconnor

If alcohol is the cause of so many problems why isn't she trying to have it banned or even restrict it?

Zebra3

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If alcohol is the cause of so many problems why isn't she trying to have it banned or even restrict it?

Because she is totally out of her depth and has lost her way from the original argument she was making (quite possibly because it may have been on behalf of somebody else).

Davidth88

https://twitter.com/mitchelloconnor


Jeez what a load of total rubbish.

Let the person without sin cast the first stone !!!


Anyway welcome JDW , lets hope they bring the price of a pint down !

Highflyer13

anncoates wrote: »

So:

Irish alcohol consumption is way above OCED average

Alcohol prices here are among the most expensive in the EU

But cheap alcohol is the cause of excess alcohol consumption



I'm confused.

In case you have not seen this video. I think we are all bloody confused about whats going on nowadays.

Caliden

VinLieger wrote: »

Miss piggy is bombarding twitter with alcohol related stats and figures, of which absolutely zero would be impacted or fixed by minimum pricing

https://twitter.com/mitchelloconnor

Ironically, it reads like the incoherent ramblings of someone under the influence of alcohol.

MARY LAY OFF THE SAUCE YA MAD YOKE

CramCycle

The_Captain wrote: »

Are you seriously going to argue the semantics of this with me?


Generic drug: similar, cheaper alternative to a branded product

Of which Heineken would fall into that category, whereas of the other beers supplied in JDWs few would fall into this description when compared to a typical pub in Ireland.

Beano wrote: »

I cant see how any bar is paying €200 for a keg of heineken. I can buy a single keg here http://www.partykegs.ie/beers.html for €225. surely they can manage a better discount than 11% off the retail price of keg?

It was approximately 120 or 130euro for a keg to a small bar in Dublin about 8 years ago. Prices may have gone up but I doubt they have jumped to 200, anyone still in the trade able to verify the actual price nowadays for a pub?

Geuze wrote: »

A pub is perfectly free to buy spirits from any supermarket for re-sale.

I thought that too but I am only parroting what the guy said to my Dad.

anncoates wrote: »

It's either because they think that in 20 years, every pub in Ireland will be a JDW at the expense of 'traditional' pubs which is nonsense or that it's a colonial hangover thing because the chain is British.

while there are several chains in the UK, there are still plenty of "traditional" style pubs. Although many would be forgiven that all Irish pubs are chains all selling the same stuff with rare exception (although there are a few and growing thankfully).

On the chain thing, are people aware that in Dublin, pubs like Kehoes and the Stags Head (and others) are also part of a chain?

Several, not as large as Wetherspoons but you have Charlie Chalwkes, Louis Fitzgerald etc.

Tefral

CramCycle wrote: »

It was approximately 120 or 130euro for a keg to a small bar in Dublin about 8 years ago. Prices may have gone up but I doubt they have jumped to 200, anyone still in the trade able to verify the actual price nowadays for a pub?

€155 ex VAT.. bought one recently from a pub for a party. Finewines sell them for €210 including VAT.

LordNorbury

There is something very Irish about how that FG TD is throwing this nonsense at us. As always in this country, there is the identification of a problem, but the solution of the problem is to impose silly pointless rules and laws upon the majority of people who do not abuse alcohol, in an attempt to deal with the minority that do abuse alcohol. Very conveniently, this brings in a lot of additional tax!!!

She is claiming that alcohol is a factor in the majority of all sorts of crimes and wrongdoings. Just look at what happened in Australia the other day when 2 Irish brothers were out drinking, one hit the other a dig and he is now critically ill in hospital.

Australia have a fairly new and controversial law whereby if you give someone a single punch in the head on a night out and injure them and if you are apprehended, you are then breathalyzed, just like you would be at an Irish road traffic checkpoint. If you have caused grievous bodily harm and you are then apprehended and you fail this alcohol breath test after the event (basically if you are excessively drunk), then you are looking at a 4 year automatic custodial sentence. This is applied even if it is a first offence.

These are the kind of forward thinking, reasonable, laws, we should be looking at introducing here, when it comes to anti social behaviour and serious criminal behaviour that is related to drinking.

Even if we had such laws in this country, we have a well known enforcement problem in this country with lazy Gardai and a completely indifferent judicial system, which has NOTHING to do with our national alcohol problem. The problems we face with a lazy and fairly stupid police force, allied to a judicial system that lives in an ivory tower, are more to do with the problems with crime in this country, then they have anything to do with alcohol consumption.

Putting a minimum price (additional tax!), on alcohol in this country, will do absolutely nothing to curb alcohol consumption. I personally prefer drinking at home, the pub scene with their rip off prices does nothing for me these days, hence why I have pretty much abandoned it as a social activity like I used to do.

CramCycle

cronin_j wrote: »

€155 ex VAT.. bought one recently from a pub for a party. Finewines sell them for €210 including VAT.

On the basis they added nothing on which is odd as I would have expected VAT if it being sold to an end customer, it is still almost 25% cheaper than the claimed price by others earlier in the thread.

Tefral

CramCycle wrote: »

On the basis they added nothing on which is odd as I would have expected VAT if it being sold to an end customer, it is still almost 25% cheaper than the claimed price by others earlier in the thread.

Musgraves Charge the following: (EX VAT)

Guinness IDS Stout Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €163.00
Smithwicks Ale Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €163.00
Budweiser Lager Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €168.00
Carlsberg Lager Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €168.00
Guinness Mid Strength Keg 1 x 30 Ltr €88.00
Bulmers Original Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €167.00

Leinsterblue

the fact is that under European laws it is not allowed for any of the member states to unilaterally impose a minimum price fix on the sale of alcohol, they have run into trouble in Scotland and England over this, the only countrys that have introduced this minimum twaddle being Russia and Uzbekistan which says it all really.....

Geuze

cronin_j wrote: »

Musgraves Charge the following: (EX VAT)

Guinness IDS Stout Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €163.00
Smithwicks Ale Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €163.00
Budweiser Lager Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €168.00
Carlsberg Lager Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €168.00
Guinness Mid Strength Keg 1 x 30 Ltr €88.00
Bulmers Original Keg 1 x 50 Ltr €167.00

Thanks very much. Info is great.

How would these prices differ from the direct delivery to pubs model that Diagoe operate in most cases, I wonder?

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

You suggest that a pub pays 200 euro ex VAT for a 50 L keg of Heineken?

Can you confirm, please.

Sees high to me. That's 2.27 euro ex VAT per pint


NB: I suspect you are including VAT, which is the wrong way to do it. VAT is added after the pub GP is added.


This link provides a breakdown of the price of a 3.60stg pint of 4% bitter in England:

http://ale.gd/blog/2014/05/who-gets-how-much-of-your-beer/

It is delivered to pub for 1.04stg per pint, or at 78p exchange rate, that means 1.33 euro.

So a fairly standards 4% bitter is 1.33 euro to a pub in Cambridge, while a pub in Irl pays 2.27 for Heineken, as per your data.

If that's true, then brewers are making massive profits in Ireland.

OK, so we now know that Musgraves charge 163 Guinness/ 168 lager per keg ex VAT.

That's 1.85 per pint of Guinness, or 1.90 per pint of lager, ex VAT.


Also note that these seem to be list prices, before rebates/discounts.

I know that Diageo offer volume rebates to pubs, as much as 14%.

Tefral

Geuze wrote: »

Thanks very much. Info is great.

How would these prices differ from the direct delivery to pubs model that Diagoe operate in most cases, I wonder?

I dont work in a pub so someone more knowledgeable will probably correct me, but I would imagine that there wouldnt be too much of a price difference between Carlsberg and Heineken (would imagine heineken would be a small bit more expensive)

So I paid €155 ex vat for a 50l keg of Heineken in a busy limerick pub and Musgraves sell Carlsberg for €168 so thats only €13 a Keg. I know most pubs would only go to Musgraves if they were caught for a keg until the next delivery.

Geuze

Given that the pub surely made a profit when selling to you at 155 ex VAT, then they must pay less for it?

Tefral

Geuze wrote: »

Given that the pub surely made a profit when selling to you at 155 ex VAT, then they must pay less for it?

No Profit on the keg, it was done as a favour, it was what he paid.