E2.50 pints should be outlawed, says FG TD

end of the road

LordNorbury wrote: »

What do Irish pubs, Bus Eireann and Irish Rail have in common??? They all have lobby groups pushing their selfish interests for them, publicans have not one but two strong vintners associations, (one for Dublin city and one for everywhere else), and Dublin Bus and Irish rail have strong unions. Where you have these guys, the public will always be screwed, same in the Irish public sector, you had until recently, automatic increments and basically you have a protectionist regime that looks out for number one and the customer and his/her concerns are not even on the list of concerns, let alone very far down on the list.

That is how this country is run, you have insiders and you have outsiders, insiders have a place at partnership/government decision making level and have lobby groups who obstruct change and ensure that the ultimate total costs of inefficiency get loaded onto the general public by way of increases in the cost of products and services. At least with pubs you can choose not to frequent them, and now that enough people have made that choice for themselves, you have the vested interests trying to make it too expensive to stay at home and have a drink!

the CIE unions job is to look after their members. they are needed to ensure CIE management don't pull a fast one and sell the employees out while they look after themselves. CIE management and the government are the ones you have the problem with

end of the road

Highflyer13 wrote: »

HSE too. They cant fire some of the useless wasters clogging up the place which is what's needed in order to spend the money money more wisely.

a hell of a lot of staff have gone from CIE over the years. i don't want a situation where we just have enough staff to operate the service but if a problem occurs services are canceled due to lack of crew. better to have a few more on standby just incase

Tony EH

LordNorbury wrote: »

What do Irish pubs, Bus Eireann and Irish Rail have in common??? They all have lobby groups pushing their selfish interests for them, publicans have not one but two strong vintners associations, (one for Dublin city and one for everywhere else), and Dublin Bus and Irish rail have strong unions. Where you have these guys, the public will always be screwed, same in the Irish public sector, you had until recently, automatic increments and basically you have a protectionist regime that looks out for number one and the customer and his/her concerns are not even on the list of concerns, let alone very far down on the list.

That is how this country is run, you have insiders and you have outsiders, insiders have a place at partnership/government decision making level and have lobby groups who obstruct change and ensure that the ultimate total costs of inefficiency get loaded onto the general public by way of increases in the cost of products and services. At least with pubs you can choose not to frequent them, and now that enough people have made that choice for themselves, you have the vested interests trying to make it too expensive to stay at home and have a drink!

Highflyer13 wrote: »

HSE too. They cant fire some of the useless wasters clogging up the place which is what's needed in order to spend the money money more wisely.

...and just wait until Fine Gael's baby Irish Water get in on the act as well.

:rolleyes:

LordSutch

Hello goodbye JDWetherspoons?

Hopefully not, but if the powers that be are determined to bring in a minimum charge for a pint (let's say€5) for the sake of argument, then JD`s and their competitive pricing is gone, and they may well pull out of the ROI after only having just arrived.

Echoes of the BUPA price fixing farce me thinks.

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

Hello goodbye JDWetherspoons?

Hopefully not, but if the powers that be are determined to bring in a minimum charge for a pint (let's say€5) for the sake of argument, then JD`s and their competitive pricing is gone, and they may well pull out of the ROI after only having just arrived.

Echoes of the BUPA price fixing farce me thinks.

I know a rural pub where a pint is 3.40 and a GAA club where it's 3.20. Where they could set the minimum price without treading on toes would be pretty funny.
But yeah, they can't set a minimum price. They had it on cigarettes until a couple of years ago until they were sued in Europe.

LordNorbury

end of the road wrote: »

the CIE unions job is to look after their members. they are needed to ensure CIE management don't pull a fast one and sell the employees out while they look after themselves. CIE management and the government are the ones you have the problem with

Very true, and who voted Labour into government in this country??? You don't seem to be able to cop the continuity that insiders have, the circular nature to the problem, gombeen and pampered employees want a bigger slice of the pie than they are entitled to, same said gombeen and pampered employees elect a cabal of people into government to protect their selfish interests. This goes on for years and years and these people become firm insiders. Meanwhile the majority of people in the country who actually do work for their money, have no insider representation.

Who bankrolls the Labour Party??? SIPTU that's who!!!

VinLieger

LordSutch wrote: »

Hello goodbye JDWetherspoons?

Hopefully not, but if the powers that be are determined to bring in a minimum charge for a pint (let's say€5) for the sake of argument, then JD`s and their competitive pricing is gone, and they may well pull out of the ROI after only having just arrived.

Echoes of the BUPA price fixing farce me thinks.

Theres talk of it being against EU law to place minimum prices on alcohol, dunno if the way there are planning on doing it with the health bill will fall under this though as they are likely to just increase excise to force minimum pricing

end of the road

LordNorbury wrote: »

gombeen and pampered employees want a bigger slice of the pie than they are entitled to

you mean management, would agree. in relation to the ground staff, they are entitled to want something. they don't get it though. unless of course they are in a management job which then they do get a bit much, but they can get it so why wouldn't they take it? just because employees in a company have someone looking out for them and they want better doesn't make them gombeens and pampered. in these times of scammbridge and other nonsense its important to be in a union if you can. if you can't, my greatist sympathy because employment law on its own won't protect you.

LordNorbury wrote: »

Meanwhile the majority of people in the country who actually do work for their money, have no insider representation.

are you sure? oh, let me guess, only public sector workers have unions right? and only the perfect private sector workers who wouldn't do anything wrong working for the perfect private sector who would never do anything wrong work for their money while everyone in the public sector does **** all? right, get it now.

Grayson

LordNorbury wrote: »

I remember when Michael Mc Dowell was Justice Minister this happened and he had to back down, I don't think the same thing would be tolerated today, people and not taking that kind of crap these days.

I don't know if there'd be marches but this would probably be far more unpopular. Especially in the 18-30 age group. It'd probably affect them more than the water charges.

hatrickpatrick

VinLieger wrote: »

Theres talk of it being against EU law to place minimum prices on alcohol, dunno if the way there are planning on doing it with the health bill will fall under this though as they are likely to just increase excise to force minimum pricing

The Scottish Whisky association are in the middle of suing the Scottish government on these same grounds at the moment.
I doubt they'll increase excise to force minimum pricing - doing that would decimate the profits of their VFI cronies.

This whole Wetherspoons minimum pricing remark by MMo'C was a gigantic tactical mistake. They have just thrown away any public health excuse they've ever had and nakedly exposed that this is all about protectionism. Wetherspoons are a large and experienced corporation, they're not going to go down without fighting.

Idbatterim

I don't know if there'd be marches but this would probably be far more unpopular. Especially in the 18-30 age group. It'd probably affect them more than the water charges.

we must spend several billion a year here on drink, the water charges are an irrelevance compared to what a lot of people spend on drink every week. Funny I was thinking earlier I couldnt care less about the mickey mouse water charges, but I assume the majority of us spend a good wedge on drink every week. I would march against this sham for sure, probably one thing the entire country would agree on, except VFI, LVA and the publicans and Mitchell O'Connor...

Highflyer13

Idbatterim wrote: »

we must spend several billion a year here on drink, the water charges are an irrelevance compared to what a lot of people spend on drink every week. Funny I was thinking earlier I couldnt care less about the mickey mouse water charges, but I assume the majority of us spend a good wedge on drink every week. I would march against this sham for sure, probably one thing the entire country would agree on, except VFI, LVA and the publicans and Mitchell O'Connor...

I give a sh1t about the water charges as its as obvious as day that the Govt are pulling all sorts of strokes under the cover of IW. The fee is quite small but and affordable but they are extracting the urine with that project.

mikemac1

VinLieger wrote: »

Im a constituent of hers who got in touch with her on previous issues before, haven't heard a peep back from her on this, If I dont after tomorrow i'm gonna go nuts on that contact form

Politicans will reply but you have to do two things

Write a letter to show you are serious. They don't care about emails.
You must give your address to show you are a constituent

You'll get a reply, might take a few weeks though

machiavellianme

mikemac1 wrote: »

Politicans will reply but you have to do two things

Write a letter to show you are serious. They don't care about emails.
You must give your address to show you are a constituent

You'll get a reply, might take a few weeks though

I'm sick of this line. Email is perfectly fine for business but when it comes to anything unsavoury, then it has to be a letter or they choose to ignore it.

RobYourBuilder

mikemac1 wrote: »

Politicans will reply but you have to do two things

Write a letter to show you are serious. They don't care about emails.
You must give your address to show you are a constituent

You'll get a reply, might take a few weeks though

Remember to state that you're an ex party voter and cc that through their official page.

Zebra3

mikemac1 wrote: »

Politicans will reply but you have to do two things

Write a letter to show you are serious. They don't care about emails.
You must give your address to show you are a constituent

You'll get a reply, might take a few weeks though

Send them an email offering to donate two grand to their next election campaign.

See how quickly you get a reply.

LuckyLloyd

Cienciano wrote: »

Another problem about vintners pubs (the bog standard irish pub, I know there is craft beer pubs popping up now) is the choice. I don't go out much any mre, but when I do I like the choice of a decent beer. Something different. If I'm having 6 pints I don't mind paying a euro extra a pint for something I enjoy. But the pubs never offered any choice. Bud, Carlsberg, Heineken, Guinness, Smithwicks, Bulmers. Then take your pick between Fosters/Bavaria/Coors/Miller. It was the same shíte the lenght of the country. If you wanted a bottle of anything Belgian that wasn't Stella you could píss off, you're lucky they even have Stella.
Another plus point for JDW, at least the change it around a bit, have cask ales.

That's Diageo again. They somehow managed to brand this into acceptability. I was in Germany for a few weeks when I was 20 and I remember the trip being a massive eye opener. Up to that point I had never given a second thought to the beers sold in Irish pubs and thought Guinness to be some elixir of gold. But being in Bavaria and seeing a beer culture founded on the principles of:

- beer is local;
- beer is diverse;
- beer is about a few natural ingredients;
- some beer is seasonal;

made me realise that something was ****ed about the alcohol trade in our country. That led me to doing some digging, realising that the likes of O'Haras were in the country making a range of local beers and that one dickhead company had managed to successfully kill off a nation's sense of taste and / or choice.

The craft beer movement has been brilliant - growing slowly over the course of a decade. I know hoppy beers aren't to everyone's taste, but for those genuinely happy with their pint of Heineken I don't think they'd care if a lager from Kinsale held the tap beside it one week, and an ale from Donegal the next. Diageo continue to **** up the public's perception of the market as a general line has been drawn between 'craft places' or 'normal places' in the public's mind depending on whether they sit completely inside the Diageo bracket or completely outside it (because going halfway seems to be the reserve of strong busy pubs sure of their custom).

It shouldn't be 'weird' or 'hipster' or 'snobby' or - most crucially - ball breakingly expensive to walk into a bar in Ireland that sells a diverse range of Irish and International Beers and Spirits. It is infact completely ****ing warped and abnormal to have the same narrow range of brands in every pub in the nation for ~€5 a pint or ~€8 for a measure of spirits and a mixer. JDW will only serve to make profit out of what should be normal and if they take hold then along with the Galway Bay type bars they should hopefully serve to fully unwind a ridiculous situation.

traprunner

I think selling penny sweets at a penny should be outlawed.

ThisRegard

And rightly so since it's not legal tender.

Flex

mikemac1 wrote: »

Politicans will reply but you have to do two things

Write a letter to show you are serious. They don't care about emails.
You must give your address to show you are a constituent

You'll get a reply, might take a few weeks though

If you want a reply to an email regards their party line/policy email backbenchers; TDs who aren't often in the media so rely on the partys name/reputation to win support in their wider constituency, or younger TDs who got in on slender margins in the last election, voicing your disapproval since this (seems to be) Fine Gael party policy. I bet they'd get back fast.. Still awaiting a reply from Mary Mitchell O'Connor and the Fine Gael TD for my constituency, Leo Varadkar

rubadub

LordSutch wrote: »

Hello goodbye JDWetherspoons?

Hopefully not, but if the powers that be are determined to bring in a minimum charge for a pint (let's say€5)

If it was €5 I could picture wetherspoons getting in a selection of even higher quality beers. I was saying this before about minimum pricing for off licences, if it was minimum €3 for 500ml 5% beer then sales of the likes of dutch gold would plummet. It would be really weird going into an offie and see all the beers now at €3, like if they did it with chocolate I would only be buying what I previously thought were overpriced fancy belgian chocolate which I do like but do not think the high price warrants the quality difference. Why would I buy bog standard tesco own brand bars when lindt is the same price.

I do drink the likes of budvar in pubs as its usually only maybe 20-30cent more than the usual cheaply produced muck like heineken per pint, and is usually cheaper than heineken per ml if buying bottled beers (i.e. heineken only comes in 330ml bottles which usually cost more in pubs per ml than the better quality beers which are usually in 500ml bottles). In the offie budvar is maybe €2-2.70, while the cheaper stuff is €1. I do not value the quality difference to warrant paying 2.5 times the price.

Minimum pricing would be unfair on any business who developed their whole brand and manufacturing plants to cater for cheaper products. Like if cars had to be €200,000 minimum in an attempt to free up roads all the cheaper producers would go bust, or have to totally change. People who could afford a car would be getting top of the range BMWs etc.

Wetherspoons meal prices would probably remain the same, e.g. on friday you currently get a fish & chips and a pint for €9. So even if the minimum price of a pint was €8 they could still charge €9. Because in all these min price proposals I have heard none where the government would be getting the money, it was not an excise increase or levy, the retailer was going to pocket the difference. The governement were only going to benefit a small bit from the VAT difference, but with the wetherspoons setup the government would not get this on their meals.

So wetherspoons might actually welcome this in a way, I imagine they do not want a bunch of pissheads in their pubs and would prefer people to be having meals. It could be bar snacks with pints, e.g. pint and free bag of crisps, or a tiny charge if they need to take advantage of a loop hole. e.g. if the law did not allow free offers it could be €5.01 for a pint of stout and a burger or tub of pringes, the pringles being valued at 1cent. People often bemoan the fact most pubs are such scabby bastards and do not even have peanuts out and charge €2 for a packet that would be a small childs handful.

Geuze

To clarify, the planned min price in Scotland was 50p per unit of alcohol.

That would be approx 65 cent here.


There are two units in a typical pint of beer, actually 2.3 UK units in a 4% beer.

So the min price for a typical pint would be 1.30 euro approx.

As all pub prices are way beyond this, then the proposed MUP policy wouldn't affect pub prices in any way.

Indeed, by raising off-licence prices relative to pubs, it make pub prices relatively cheaper.


NB: I must double check is a UK unit of alc same as a unit here. I think there are two measures.

AndonHandon

I think a UK unit is about 1.3 what an Irish unit is; if only the euro could trade against the pound at that rate!

Beano

AndonHandon wrote: »

I think a UK unit is about 1.3 what an Irish unit is; if only the euro could trade against the pound at that rate!

you are thinking of a measure of spirits. our measures are 35ml. in the uk they are 25ml. a unit of alcohol is still a unit of alcohol though.

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/what-is-alcohol/what-is-an-alcohol-unit

rubadub

rubadub wrote: »

Minimum pricing would be unfair on any business who developed their whole brand and manufacturing plants to cater for cheaper products.

I think this is an issue everywhere in Ireland. In Europe I've seen cafes almost empty all the time, pool halls (massive, talking about 10 snooker tables, 20 billiard and pool tables, some dartboards and a small bar) lying almost empty all week yet they survive. In Ireland that can't happen with rates and the like and it seems the options here are high mark-up with low sales or low mark-up with high sales just to remain open.

Beano

Beano wrote: »

you are thinking of a measure of spirits. our measures are 35ml. in the uk they are 25ml. a unit of alcohol is still a unit of alcohol though.

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/what-is-alcohol/what-is-an-alcohol-unit

Are you sure? I thought we used 10g while they used 10ml as a unit or the other way around.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure? I thought we used 10g while they used 10ml as a unit or the other way around.

He's right. the UK has always has smaller units (and I'm not just talking about drinks )

(Although it got me thinking. One gram of water is one ml of water. Alcohol has a lower density so the the weight to volume ratio would be different. It's actually.78 grams equals one ml (thank you google). So a 10gm measure of alcohol would be 7.8 grams. So the ratio of 10gms to 10mls is 1.28.

However the ratio of 25ml to 35ml is 1.4. So unfortunately your ratio is still off.

TLDR: You were wrong but I spent far too much time thinking about it so I guess you win)

And after googling more, pubs in the UK have the option of 25 or 35. In Ireland it's only 35.

Beano

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure? I thought we used 10g while they used 10ml as a unit or the other way around.

actually you are correct. I just seen the 10 and assumed it was the same units. so our "unit" of alcohol is 10mg of alcohol whereas the uk defines 10ml as a "unit" which is only 8g. still not a ratio of 1.3 though

CramCycle

10mg of pure alcohol?

Surely there is a mistake here based on % etc.

Grams was meant I assume.