Another black teenager shot by police in St Louis

Manic Moran · 24-12-2014 8:22pm

Agricola wrote: »

Seems to me theres two options. Either impose strict gun laws with the aim of severely limiting civilian access to them, or leave the law as it it and let police continue to do what they have to do, i.e. shoot people who brandish weapons in public.

I'm happy enough with #2. You go around threatening people in public with a weapon, expect the appropriate response. The strict guns laws option is (a) impractical for a number of reasons, and (b) legally pretty much impossible.

QUOTE=egginacupThis prick and dozens of his buddies who were in on the act tried to infiltrate peaceful protesters and even smashed windows to try and make it look like the protesters were some mob of knuckleheaded anarchists.[/quote]

BS. Have you a single reference for that? As for 'peaceful protestors', allow me to fill you in as to what's been going on up the road from my office, here in the Bay Area. Every night for days have been protests and riots. Not peaceful ones either, no. The CHP incident you refer to was on Night #5. http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/12/berkeley_protests_violent_poli.html
And, as ever in these things, the majority of the arrestees are from out of town. As they say, you don't dump in your back yard, these guys are coming in to cause trouble. And the best way to identify these people? Yep, you guessed it. Undercover officers monitoring from nearby. Not from within the crowd, they were identified -following- the crowd. As evidenced by the fact that when attacked by the gentleman shown on the ground, they had the room to defend themselves.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-highway-patrol-defends-officer-who-drew-gun-on-protesters/

When they got out of the car and started following on foot, protesters began pointing and yelling "they're cops." One officer was struck in the head, and that's when the other tried to protect him.

"At the same time, a group of about 30 to 50 folks encircled the officers and began to close in upon them. Our officer drew his baton and badge telling the crowd to stop and back up. They did not. They continued to advance, so he transitioned from his baton and drew his firearm and pointed it at the crowd," said CHP Golden Gate Division Commander Avery Brown.

Oakland police arrived to disperse the crowd. The protester who allegedly attacked the officer was taken away and booked on felony assault charges.

CHP said that officer suffered head injuries and may have a concussion. According to Brown, the two officers' actions will be investigated by the district attorney's office but they remain on duty. Their names were not released.

end of the road wrote: »

no you don't.

"Deserve" is probably the wrong word, but it is not an unreasonable resolution of the situation either. By threatening to shoot someone, you indicate that whatever your goal is, be it mugging or protection, it's worth taking a life, which also means it's worth taking one to protect such.

end of the road · 24-12-2014 8:25pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm happy enough with #2. You go around threatening people in public with a weapon, expect the appropriate response. The strict guns laws option is (a) impractical for a number of reasons, and (b) legally pretty much impossible.

[

BS. Have you a single reference for that? As for 'peaceful protestors', allow me to fill you in as to what's been going on up the road from my office, here in the Bay Area. Every night for days have been protests and riots. Not peaceful ones either, no. The CHP incident you refer to was on Night #5. http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/12/berkeley_protests_violent_poli.html
And, as ever in these things, the majority of the arrestees are from out of town. As they say, you don't dump in your back yard, these guys are coming in to cause trouble. And the best way to identify these people? Yep, you guessed it. Undercover officers monitoring from nearby. Not from within the crowd, they were identified -following- the crowd. As evidenced by the fact that when attacked by the gentleman shown on the ground, they had the room to defend themselves.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-highway-patrol-defends-officer-who-drew-gun-on-protesters/

"Deserve" is probably the wrong word, but it is not an unreasonable resolution of the situation either. By threatening to shoot someone, you indicate that whatever your goal is, be it mugging or protection, it's worth taking a life, which also means it's worth taking one to protect such.

its not worth taking a life.

BorneTobyWilde · 24-12-2014 8:26pm

What would he deserve if he got off his shots first and killed the cop

Tugboats · 24-12-2014 8:30pm

maaaaaaa son never had noooooooooooooooo gun

Montroseee · 24-12-2014 8:34pm

I wouldn't point a paper cup at a cop in the US let alone a gun, it's basically suicide. Even if there was never any intention to use it or it was unloaded it still must be assumed that you will use it. Sad to hear but it was incredibly an stupid thing to do.

end of the road · 24-12-2014 8:42pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What would he deserve if he got off his shots first and killed the cop

life in prison would be enough, just like for every other murder

darkpagandeath · 24-12-2014 8:46pm

end of the road wrote: »

life in prison would be enough, just like for every other murder

Who was murdered ?

suicide_circus · 24-12-2014 8:53pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

What would you do in that cops situation?

Die

StinkyMunkey · 24-12-2014 9:53pm

Tbh, you can't blame the cops for shooting so many, everyone owns a gun in America. It's only self preservation to assume every time you respond to a call, some scumbag is going to try take a pot shot. It's insane the amount of money spent by America on foreign policies, they really need to sort out their own back yard. Unfortunately for Obama he is reaping the rewards for retard decisions made by previous leaders, but that said, I think history will look with favour on efforts he has made regarding home and foreign policies.

UCDVet · 24-12-2014 9:59pm

end of the road wrote: »

if a force has a bad reputation and a bad history then it doesn't deserve the trust of the public.

I'm neither pro-cop or anti-cop but let's be fair here....there are TONS and TONS of examples of popular opinion being wrong. Having a 'reputation for X' doesn't have much of anything to do with whether or not X is true.

I knew a girl at uni who had a 'reputation' of being easy - but she just dressed slutty. She didn't sleep around at all!

Dan_Solo · 24-12-2014 10:04pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

He does the same on any thread like this, he's a troll.

Amazing. That's back seat modding and it's completely ignored for some odd reason...
This is too but I guess I'm safe now, huh.

end of the road · 24-12-2014 10:09pm

UCDVet wrote: »

there are TONS and TONS of examples of popular opinion being wrong.

this one isn't one of those examples. this particular police forces reputation is well deserved.

UCDVet wrote: »

Having a 'reputation for X' doesn't have much of anything to do with whether or not X is true.

no, but in this case it is true.

UCDVet wrote: »

I knew a girl at uni who had a 'reputation' of being easy - but she just dressed slutty. She didn't sleep around at all!

whats that got to do with anything. while i take your word for it that she wasn't "easy" had she been thats not a crime.

Highflyer13 · 24-12-2014 10:19pm

America and its gun laws are so fooking stupid. Any auld nut can wave a gun at the cops. Why does everybody have the right to own a gun? Its daft.

Highflyer13 · 24-12-2014 10:26pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Most important thing is that gunman is dead and cop is at home with his family. There are people in prison here who don't deserve their free 3 meals, their free sky tv, their free music lessons,their free gym membership, they deserve a bullet. Ireland,where crime does pay .
I think this man got what he deserted .

Cop on to yourself fool.

Egginacup · 24-12-2014 10:32pm

SeanW wrote: »

Edited to clarify: Egginacup is from the same individual that spouts stuff he/she read on Russia Today as an accurate guide to the Ukranian crisis ...

If you wish to debate the Ukrainian Crisis then it behoves you to not attempt some flaccid manoeuvre at introducing my opinions (and facts, I might add) linked therewith with the discussion in which we are currently engaged.

Unless I have displayed glaring hypocrisy in my posting about another subject then your attempt to introduce that discussion is craven.

Egginacup · 24-12-2014 10:57pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

your source is the malcom x grassroots movement
there are headings " the war on black people "

that to you is a reasonable un bias source is it ?
no chance that there could be a preexisting anti state anti police attitude there ?

also having read the examples given seems to me most of them were dangerous criminals some of whom actively attacked police

No, there is no euphemistically "anti state anti police" attitude here or anywhere.

Why would you say such a thing?

There is an anti-abuse-of-power attitude here. There is also an anti-those-who-forgive-violence-just-so-you-can attitude here.

Egginacup · 24-12-2014 11:39pm

SeanW wrote: »

Her's the thing about Trayvon Martin. Yes, his killing may have been a murder, but 6000+ black people are murdered each year in the United States (more than whites, 5800+) and this correlates to the murder rate by race as well.

To be clear, I use these statistics only for one purpose - to question why Travyon Martin is so important.

To be clear also, it's reasonable to assume that T.M. may have been murdered, and we should all be appalled by this. As we should about any murder.

But I find it bizarre that all the people mourning for Trayvon Martin (and actual thugs like Michael Brown) don't give a ***k about the tens of thousands of black people that have been murdered (by other black people, in 94% of cases) over the last few years.

I had to wait for a while to collect my thoughts and allow my heart rate to slow before responding to this.
Sean, it is IRRELEVANT if blacks are killing each other to the point of extinction. Those 6000+ attacks of which you speak ...... every perpetrator of these killings is hunted, indicted, charged, tried, convicted...that is if they are apprehended, and if not they are listed for their crime OR, failing identification, the case remains unsolved.

A million blacks could kill each other but they would ALL face charge and trial...in fact most of them do, including some who just attended the scene of the crime.

For you to attempt to connect this to cops killing black people is appalling. Are you suggesting that black people are just plain criminal, ... that it's inherent?

Your shit analogy about black on black murders is as weak and shabby as someone who might excuse a sadistic schoolteacher who routinely beats and sexually abuses kids against their will and with the power to get away with it because "fuck it, they come from an area where aforementioned violence is commonplace"

As for your question as to why there was outrage about Trayvon Martin's killing but none about the countless others who just get "whacked".....again it's irrelevant.

If you kill someone, are seen to kill someone; if you beat someone; are seen to beat someone; if you harass someone; then you are in violation of the law of the land. Whether you are are a cop or not. Yet if a cop can get away with not even having his bullets counted after he has blasted to death someone who he claims "frightened" him,
Then why would you even correlate the rules allegedly that apply to both citizens and those tasked to protect them via their taxes?

Why are there rules for the exacting of violence against people? and if you don't give a sh1t about rules then just say so. I'd have more respect for an honest thug than a lying charlatan.

BattleCorp · 24-12-2014 11:57pm

Egginacup wrote: »

.

I'm curious Egginacup. What would you have done if you were the cop in that situation?

darkpagandeath · 25-12-2014 3:38am

Egginacup wrote: »

No, there is no euphemistically "anti state anti police" attitude here or anywhere.

Why would you say such a thing?

There is an anti-abuse-of-power attitude here. There is also an anti-those-who-forgive-violence-just-so-you-can attitude here.

Really ? Is pointing a gun at someone now not a violent action ?

bear1 · 25-12-2014 11:47am

Never ceases to amaze me how certain threads on AH can go downhill so fast.
How we've gone from the death of a person to the Ukrainian conflict and back again is beyond me.
The simple matter is that the US has a ridiculous policy when it comes to gun ownership, and unfortunately they seem to prove it every other week at this stage.
Did that kid deserve to be killed? No. Did that cop have a right to defend himself? Yes.
We can question his motives as much as we want but at the end of the day, until we are put in a position of a it's either him or me then I would guess that all of us wouldn't chose the latter.
Self defence, the cctv shows it. Extreme self defence but self defence none the less.
There is only one reason why that kid pulled a gun on the cop and he must have known that it could either go two ways:

1) kill the cop and be branded a cop killer and wanted for murder. Cops would then be dying to get their hands on him and repay the favour.

or 2) Points gun at cop, cop reacts quicker and shots kid dead. Game over.

AndonHandon · 25-12-2014 2:40pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Really ? Is pointing a gun at someone now not a violent action ?

Apparently not.

UCDVet · 25-12-2014 3:20pm

bear1 wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me how certain threads on AH can go downhill so fast.
How we've gone from the death of a person to the Ukrainian conflict and back again is beyond me.
The simple matter is that the US has a ridiculous policy when it comes to gun ownership, and unfortunately they seem to prove it every other week at this stage.
Did that kid deserve to be killed? No. Did that cop have a right to defend himself? Yes.
We can question his motives as much as we want but at the end of the day, until we are put in a position of a it's either him or me then I would guess that all of us wouldn't chose the latter.
Self defence, the cctv shows it. Extreme self defence but self defence none the less.
There is only one reason why that kid pulled a gun on the cop and he must have known that it could either go two ways:

1) kill the cop and be branded a cop killer and wanted for murder. Cops would then be dying to get their hands on him and repay the favour.

or 2) Points gun at cop, cop reacts quicker and shots kid dead. Game over.

Extreme? I'm not sure I'm following...

bear1 · 25-12-2014 3:39pm

UCDVet wrote: »

Extreme? I'm not sure I'm following...

Clearly not, killing someone in self defence imo is extreme self defence. Justifiable in this instance but it is still extreme.

UCDVet · 25-12-2014 4:27pm

bear1 wrote: »

Clearly not, killing someone in self defence imo is extreme self defence. Justifiable in this instance but it is still extreme.

Fair enough. I'd consider it 'reasonable' to use lethal force when confronted with someone else who is willing to use lethal force to harm you. Extreme seems to suggest, to me, there was a less extreme alternative available.

GalwayGuitar · 25-12-2014 5:57pm

Egginacup wrote: »

I had to wait for a while to collect my thoughts and allow my heart rate to slow before responding to this.
Sean, it is IRRELEVANT if blacks are killing each other to the point of extinction. Those 6000+ attacks of which you speak ...... every perpetrator of these killings is hunted, indicted, charged, tried, convicted...that is if they are apprehended, and if not they are listed for their crime OR, failing identification, the case remains unsolved.

A million blacks could kill each other but they would ALL face charge and trial...in fact most of them do, including some who just attended the scene of the crime.

For you to attempt to connect this to cops killing black people is appalling. Are you suggesting that black people are just plain criminal, ... that it's inherent?

Your shit analogy about black on black murders is as weak and shabby as someone who might excuse a sadistic schoolteacher who routinely beats and sexually abuses kids against their will and with the power to get away with it because "fuck it, they come from an area where aforementioned violence is commonplace"

As for your question as to why there was outrage about Trayvon Martin's killing but none about the countless others who just get "whacked".....again it's irrelevant.

If you kill someone, are seen to kill someone; if you beat someone; are seen to beat someone; if you harass someone; then you are in violation of the law of the land. Whether you are are a cop or not. Yet if a cop can get away with not even having his bullets counted after he has blasted to death someone who he claims "frightened" him,
Then why would you even correlate the rules allegedly that apply to both citizens and those tasked to protect them via their taxes?

Why are there rules for the exacting of violence against people? and if you don't give a sh1t about rules then just say so. I'd have more respect for an honest thug than a lying charlatan.

You can rant all you want. At the end of the day a thug pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot. Cry me a river

Yurt2 · 25-12-2014 6:22pm

America is such a funked up place and is likely to stay that way due to its gun laws. Can you imagine being a Garda here if you knew half of the tracksuited scallies on our streets were carrying pistols? I'm glad our cops don't have to make the decisions American ones do.

While I had sympathy with the Ferguson and the NY 'choke' case, this was very much a kill or be killed situation it seems. Where were this kids parents and why was he carrying?

end of the road · 25-12-2014 6:25pm

GalwayGuitar wrote: »

You can rant all you want. At the end of the day a thug pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot. Cry me a river

he wasn't a thug, he was probably in danger, which in fairness the way cops act over in that sespit i can understand

darkpagandeath · 25-12-2014 6:45pm

end of the road wrote: »

he wasn't a thug, he was probably in danger, which in fairness the way cops act over in that sespit i can understand

Assault ? Armed Robbery ? Suppose they were just the acts of a misunderstood teen..

GalwayGuitar · 25-12-2014 10:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

he wasn't a thug, he was probably in danger, which in fairness the way cops act over in that sespit i can understand

Lol. The genius drew a gun, what was the cop supposed to do?

Egginacup · 26-12-2014 2:21am

Feck it! It's the season of goodwill to all men, so as the friends and family of Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner and the guy who was shot dead in the shop...what was his name? and this guy, wail in anguish and pain and misery at their hopelessness this Christmas and New Year, I'd like to wish Happy Christmas to them, but also to the ones who are delighted that they are dead.

Another black teenager shot by police in St Louis

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