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Another black teenager shot by police in St Louis

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    #152
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    irelandrover wrote: »
    That's where i thought you were going. 136 unarmed. I'm not sure even you can say that 136 out of 313 is a majority.
    All these deaths were not people shot.

    Again, why include vigilantes in this discussion? What exactly does that add?

    Now you're cherrypicking to suit yourself. The report stated that 44% definitely had no weapons at all and that a further 27% were alleged to have a weapon (which in many cases turns out to be a fucking cell phone or iPod). If a kid scratches his crotch anywhere near a cop then the cop will cite some retarded bullshit about him reaching for his wasteband.

    Only 20% definitely had a gun and only 7% definitely had a knife though you could argue that the 20% and 7% could overlap so it's fair to say that only a quarter of the victims were armed in any way.

    That constitutes a majority (75%) being unarmed.


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    #153
    chupacabra
    Registered Users Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    One less violent thug in the world.


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    #154
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Now you're cherrypicking to suit yourself. The report stated that 44% definitely had no weapons at all and that a further 27% were alleged to have a weapon (which in many cases turns out to be a fucking cell phone or iPod). If a kid scratches his crotch anywhere near a cop then the cop will cite some retarded bullshit about him reaching for his wasteband.

    Only 20% definitely had a gun and only 7% definitely had a knife though you could argue that the 20% and 7% could overlap so it's fair to say that only a quarter of the victims were armed in any way.

    That constitutes a majority (75%) being unarmed.

    No, 136 are confirmed unarmed. One of the cases in the definitely not armed list is the following:
    Phillip K. Johnson, police responded to a shots fired call. A gun was found in the car but since there was more then one person in the car it couldnt be proven the gun belonged to the person killed.

    There are an awful lot of alleged on that list. Why have you placed then in the unarmed category?

    Michael Lembhard is claimed as allegedly armed in that file. Police say he had a kitchen knife. His family say he had only a penknife. Since both sides confirm he had a knife why is he allegedly armed?

    I asked earlier who were the vigilantes. You stated they were state sanctioned such as security guards or neighbour hood watch.

    Michael Anthony Haynes II was shot by a shop clerk who is now on trial for the murder. Why is he on the list? Is shop clerk a sanctioned government job?

    Monae Turnage was shot by two of her friends with a weapon they found in an off duty police officers car. How is this on the list.

    I do not have time to read the report in too much detail but from what I have read it appears very biased.


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    #155
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    chupacabra wrote: »
    One less violent thug in the world.
    Not really. The cop will be on desk duty for a few weeks is all...


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    #156
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    irish coldplayer wrote: »
    BTW I have no problem in saying that the NYPD like any large force has issues with corruption and rascism within it. Perhaps even more than most police forces, I dont know but to say that every cop is like that is akin to saying all muslims are terrorists.
    It is neither true nor verifiable even if it were true.
    Another fantasy land surreal post. Well done on that consistency at least.
    The NYPD cop said specifically that he blamed "New York" for killing those other two cops. So he's allowed to blame an entire city for one murderer but any generalisation about he police gets the wet haddock treatment?
    Again, biased much?


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    #157
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    kingchess wrote: »
    It is not illegal to carry a gun in the US.there is plenty of vids. on youtube of people people wearing guns on their hip walking down the street and getting stopped by police,which then leads to the police demanding ID(legally the police can NOT ask for your ID.unless they suspect you of a crime).the person with the gun usually quotes the Constitution and Bill of Rights etc and sometimes they get to carry on with-out showing any ID or,if arrested will sue for Civil rights violations.there are also plenty of vids showing police behaving ,well,like a law onto themselves.

    You need a special license to carry a weapon in public in most (if not all states) in America, either concealed carry or not.

    You have to be able to provide this license when asked.


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    #158
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Kitty6277 wrote: »
    I can't see any reason why the officer had to shoot and kill him though. Okay, fair enough, maybe he had a gun but could the officer use non-lethal force and shoot him somewhere like the kneecap or something?

    And really, can you blame black teenagers for carrying weapons? I'm sure they fear for their life more than white cops with a whole police force begind them do.

    This isnt the movies... its real life.

    There is not such thing as shooting to wound, or shooting people in the knee.

    Pistols are for the most part very inaaurate weapons, unless you are extremely skilled ( way beyond the level of your average police officer) or you are very close.

    All police are thus trained to shoot center mass, in the middle of the chest and you keep shooting till the target goes down.


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    #159
    GalwayGuitar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭GalwayGuitar


    SeanW wrote: »
    Her's the thing about Trayvon Martin. Yes, his killing may have been a murder, but 6000+ black people are murdered each year in the United States (more than whites, 5800+) and this correlates to the murder rate by race as well.

    To be clear, I use these statistics only for one purpose - to question why Travyon Martin is so important.

    To be clear also, it's reasonable to assume that T.M. may have been murdered, and we should all be appalled by this. As we should about any murder.

    But I find it bizarre that all the people mourning for Trayvon Martin (and actual thugs like Michael Brown) don't give a ***k about the tens of thousands of black people that have been murdered (by other black people, in 94% of cases) over the last few years.

    Doesn't fit the narrative of evil racist whitey. If I was a black American I'd be more afraid of being shot by other blacks than the police.


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    #160
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Unless there is an invading army approaching or you are facing serious danger - you shouldn't have a gun. If you pull a gun on someone who isn't threatening your life, you deserve to be shot.

    This kid pulled out a gun and pointed it at someone who didn't present an immediate threat to his safety. He deserved to be shot.

    Kudos to the cop.


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    #161
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88d_1419427149

    lovely people


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    #162
    Underground
    Registered Users Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭Underground


    Don't understand why the first reaction of these mobs that gather around the scene of the shooting is to loot local stores. Smacks of opportunism.


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    #163
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Not really. The cop will be on desk duty for a few weeks is all...

    You know nothing about this Policeman. CCTV proves this officer did his duty. He had a gun pointed to his head. So just because the guy was black you expected him to take a few bullets?


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    #164
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    nokia69 wrote: »
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88d_1419427149

    lovely people

    That's.....disappointing.

    I'd love to see every cop in St. Louis resign. I'm sure all of the cities problems will disappear once the evil, racist, white cops who shoot innocent blacks (who point guns at them) leave. Things will surely pick up.


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    #165
    GalwayGuitar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭GalwayGuitar


    UCDVet wrote: »
    That's.....disappointing.

    I'd love to see every cop in St. Louis resign. I'm sure all of the cities problems will disappear once the evil, racist, white cops who shoot innocent blacks (who point guns at them) leave. Things will surely pick up.

    I'd like to see the liberals enjoy their cop free utopia.


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    #166
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Chris___ wrote: »
    You know nothing about this Policeman. CCTV proves this officer did his duty. He had a gun pointed to his head. So just because the guy was black you expected him to take a few bullets?
    CCTV doesn't show this.
    Makes you wonder why there isn't a dead cop if this were true. It obviously isn't. The guy forgot to pull the trigger I guess?


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    #167
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    GalwayGuitar wrote: »
    I'd like to see the liberals enjoy their cop free utopia.
    Look up "liberal" in the modern US context.


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    #168
    JaseBelleVie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    SeanW wrote: »
    Her's the thing about Trayvon Martin. Yes, his killing may have been a murder, but 6000+ black people are murdered each year in the United States (more than whites, 5800+) and this correlates to the murder rate by race as well.

    To be clear, I use these statistics only for one purpose - to question why Travyon Martin is so important.

    To be clear also, it's reasonable to assume that T.M. may have been murdered, and we should all be appalled by this. As we should about any murder.

    But I find it bizarre that all the people mourning for Trayvon Martin (and actual thugs like Michael Brown) don't give a ***k about the tens of thousands of black people that have been murdered (by other black people, in 94% of cases) over the last few years.

    Sean, you can quote all the facts, statistics and truths that you like. But some people will literally not care and will continue to believe that every police officer in America is out in his back garden right now burning a cross.


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    #169
    irish coldplayer
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭irish coldplayer


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Another fantasy land surreal post. Well done on that consistency at least.
    The NYPD cop said specifically that he blamed "New York" for killing those other two cops. So he's allowed to blame an entire city for one murderer but any generalisation about he police gets the wet haddock treatment?
    Again, biased much?

    For the 2nd time where have I said I agree with ALL the sentiments expressed in the article?
    I took exception to your quoting out of context what he said to demonise him and all police officers.
    That does not mean I agree with everything in the article why cant you understand that?

    Your issue is with what the cop wrote in the article and I have no problem with that.
    Stop projecting these quotes onto me as if that is what I said because you know damn well its not what I said.


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    #170
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Read the sources of the information.

    It seems you will find ay excuse to ignore facts even if the facts clearly show a pattern that you want to ignore. Citing bias as a reason to ignore bias is a pisspoor excuse.

    I was a little dubious myself at the nomenclature of the study but after I checked the sources then I was satisfied with the veracity.

    your source is the malcom x grassroots movement
    there are headings " the war on black people "

    that to you is a reasonable un bias source is it ?
    no chance that there could be a preexisting anti state anti police attitude there ?

    also having read the examples given seems to me most of them were dangerous criminals some of whom actively attacked police


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    #171
    kingchess
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    twinytwo wrote: »
    You need a special license to carry a weapon in public in most (if not all states) in America, either concealed carry or not.

    You have to be able to provide this license when asked.

    And these guys then stand on their rights and argue with the cops,ie,the cops can not just ask any body for ID with out reasonable suspicion ,and because wearing a gun is not illegal they say their civil rights are being infringed and sue-they have a buddy taping it all.I saw one where one guy was walking with a large rifle strapped to his back,cops stopped him and then let him continue :eek:


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    #172
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭h2005


    Underground wrote: »
    Don't understand why the first reaction of these mobs that gather around the scene of the shooting is to loot local stores. Smacks of opportunism.
    It doesn't smack of opportunism it is total opportunism.


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    #173
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Lot of Eggonaface in this thread now after the video!

    I take it this quip was aimed at me. Can you explain logically why I might have egg on my face.


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    #174
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    your source is the malcom x grassroots movement
    there are headings " the war on black people "

    that to you is a reasonable un bias source is it ?
    no chance that there could be a preexisting anti state anti police attitude there ?

    also having read the examples given seems to me most of them were dangerous criminals some of whom actively attacked police
    Edited to clarify: Egginacup is from the same individual that spouts stuff he/she read on Russia Today as an accurate guide to the Ukranian crisis ...


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    #175
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Weres Jesse Jackson when ya need him? :D


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    #176
    Tugboats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭Tugboats


    mikeym wrote: »
    Weres Jesse Jackson when ya need him? :D

    Do you expect him to care about black rights on christmas eve? He will pipe up early new year


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    #177
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    CCTV doesn't show this.
    Makes you wonder why there isn't a dead cop if this were true. It obviously isn't. The guy forgot to pull the trigger I guess?

    while never one to stand up for police officers etc...its a bit stupid to expect a police officer not to open fire if a gun pointed at his head


    I didn't see the cctv so il not overly comment on it


    that being said some of the recent police killings in America are about as believable as the excuses given by the british army for shooting that young lad in aughnacloy going to a gaa match years ago

    so Id be vary of openly jumping to the defense of the police as there seems to be a worrying amount of said shooting events in recent years.....it is a situation which if both sides didn't step back from the brink could escalate unnesscaryly....it is not the behaviour of a normal country when you see people in scuffles with police at a petrol station....both sides would do well to take a step back from the brink


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    #178
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,496 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    mrcheez wrote: »
    OT it's not "all" but a "2/3 majority". I've often wondered why this is, as we have lots of fast-food chains here but nowhere near the ratio of "fat to normals"

    A lot are also quite significantly taller than the average here too.

    Seems antibiotics/hormones in the food are a likely cause

    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/13/5_shocking_reasons_why_americans_are_getting_fatter_partner/

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/is-fat-the-new-normal

    Its weird because when you visit america youd never believe that many people were obese. You can definitely tell theres more fat people than back in ireland but still, they just dont seem that common. You see tonnes of skinny men and women around there...maybe the fat ones just sit at home i dont know but i never felt like 66% of americans around me were fat or obese


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    #179
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    irelandrover wrote: »
    No, 136 are confirmed unarmed. One of the cases in the definitely not armed list is the following:
    Phillip K. Johnson, police responded to a shots fired call. A gun was found in the car but since there was more then one person in the car it couldnt be proven the gun belonged to the person killed.

    There are an awful lot of alleged on that list. Why have you placed then in the unarmed category?

    Michael Lembhard is claimed as allegedly armed in that file. Police say he had a kitchen knife. His family say he had only a penknife. Since both sides confirm he had a knife why is he allegedly armed?

    I asked earlier who were the vigilantes. You stated they were state sanctioned such as security guards or neighbour hood watch.

    Michael Anthony Haynes II was shot by a shop clerk who is now on trial for the murder. Why is he on the list? Is shop clerk a sanctioned government job?

    Monae Turnage was shot by two of her friends with a weapon they found in an off duty police officers car. How is this on the list.

    I do not have time to read the report in too much detail but from what I have read it appears very biased.

    I don't even know where to start with this. There are people on here who scroll the need to shoot to kill if someone has a gun. "they can still shoot back if only shot to incapcitate, like in the legs" they roar. By what stretch of the imagination can anyone armed with a breadknife or even a paltry penknife be deemed as such a threat to life that they must be shot dead? Are you going to claim that someone with a damn Swiss army knife confronting a guy with a Baretta could be some kind of Zorro who could launch said knife or potato peeler with such accuracy, fleet of motion and dexterity as to instantly kill someone stone dead and therefore must be shot dead?


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    #180
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    What would that change in the facts of this case ?
    he was supposed to be wearing it. so your question is invalid. not only would it definitely show what happened, but by not wearing it the officer has shown he has something to hide

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #181
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    SeanW wrote: »
    This is from the same individual that spouts stuff he/she read on Russia Today as an accurate guide to the Ukranian crisis ...

    what and where did i comment on ukranian anything ? think your mistaken , ill stand by for an apology......


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