Another black teenager shot by police in St Louis

BattleCorp

If the guy pulled a gun on the cop, then fair enough, what else was the cop supposed to do?

This race sh1t is really bugging me. Who gives a fcuk what colour someone is, if they pull a gun on a cop then they should expect them to respond.

Is society so fcuked up that you are a racist if you shoot back at a black man because he pulled a gun on you?

The media need a kick in the hole too. They are whipping everything up, trying to aggravate every situation. It's almost as if they wanted to create a race war.

Bottom line, no matter what colour you are, pull a gun on a cop and they are going to do their very best to put you down, fast.

Bacchus

bear1 wrote: »

The problem here is not racial related but it's the American people as a whole who defend the law of being allowed to have a handgun.....

The current station that has evolved over the last year has moved beyond gun law. Gun law is obviously a huge divisive issue in America but this has become a PR war between the police that are supposed to protect and the people who are outraged over a handful of isolated incidents (with the media pouring fuel on the fire). Not that I'm trying to diminish the impact of those shootings but a police force that is taking such a hammering over every action they take is a police force that won't work. Even in reform, with such scrutiny you risk the reforming removing good with the bad.

Pumpkinseeds

Shock horror another idiot gets killed after pulling a gun on a cop. High time the black community cleaned up their act and sorted themselves out. If the idiot hadn't been commiting a crime he'd still be alive. Can people just get over skin colour and accept that cops in America carry guns and if you're gonna pull a gun on them when they try to arrest you then you're highly likely to get shot. Honestly folks, I'm so fcuking bored with the race card.

Manic Moran

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Quite revealing that NYPD cops are now demanding to be feared. Not respected mind you. Feared.

Got a link for that? Because I don't see it on this thread, and certainly not in that open letter on the previous page.

bear1

Manic Moran wrote: »

Got a link for that? Because I don't see it on this thread, and certainly not in that open letter on the previous page.

Tried Googling it but came back with nothing. OP may have heard it by other means though.

bear1

Bacchus wrote: »

The current station that has evolved over the last year has moved beyond gun law. Gun law is obviously a huge divisive issue in America but this has become a PR war between the police that are supposed to protect and the people who are outraged over a handful of isolated incidents (with the media pouring fuel on the fire). Not that I'm trying to diminish the impact of those shootings but a police force that is taking such a hammering over every action they take is a police force that won't work. Even in reform, with such scrutiny you risk the reforming removing good with the bad.

The problem also is that this seems to be like the LA riots of the early 90s.
Most cops may start having itchy trigger fingers with all the hatred and threats facing them.
It's quite sad really. There is no good outcome, but I think curtailing the gun laws may be a big help.
At least experiment with it and see how it goes.

Bacchus

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Quite revealing that NYPD cops are now demanding to be feared. Not respected mind you. Feared.
And they wonder then why they aren't respected either.
If they want to blame all of New York for shooting two cops I guess all cops should equally be blamed for every unarmed kid shot dead, gun planted and wad of drug money stolen.

Those are the words of one officer and nowhere does he demand to be feared. He uses the word "fear" to describe how the tide has shifted from criminals fearing the law to the law fearing the criminals.

An effective police force needs to be feared by criminals. The problem is that the general public now fear them too. Now all there is is fear. The police are in fear of the hatred and for their lives now after the shootings. The public are in fear of being perceived as a threat and getting shot.

He does go a bit OTT alright near the end with the whole "New York murdered the two cops" thing.

Dan_Solo

"That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us."
You didn't read it at all, did you?

Manic Moran wrote: »

Got a link for that? Because I don't see it on this thread, and certainly not in that open letter on the previous page.

Egginacup

Bacchus wrote: »

The officers are saying that the man pulled a gun and pointed it at them. Fair enough so, you do that, you're gonna get shot. Hopefully Sky et. al. will be a as loud about pointing this out as they have been when saying "black teenager shot by police!"

Just think about that. The guy allegedly points a gun at a cop. So this guy is pointing a gun at a cop and the cop then pulls out his gun and fires several shots at the guy. Was the guy in a trance or was the cop some kind of "Sundance Kid quickdraw"?
The victim didn't get a single shot off between the time he was "pointing his weapon" at the cop until the cop reached, drew, undid the safety, aimed and fired multiple shots?

(I await the analysis of the gun nuts on here who will brag about how they can draw, aim, discharge a few rounds from their glocks into a paper target or beer can or some such sh1t in a matter of seconds)

RacoonQueen

White policeman shoots white teenager wouldn't have quite the se ring to it.

Have the black people not realised yet that if they stop waving guns around the police will stop shooting them?

Dan_Solo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Have the black people not realised yet that if they stop waving guns around the police will stop shooting them?

"The black people"? WTF?

Dan_Solo

bear1 wrote: »

Tried Googling it but came back with nothing. OP may have heard it by other means though.

CTRL-F "F-E-A-R".
Glad to be of service.

Spudmonkey

What assholes use this as an excuse to break into local businesses. Why would anyone set up shop in places like this??

Egginacup

kneemos wrote: »

They're always investigated.

Yeah...by themselves. That is satisfactory for you? It's like a member of a gang beats the tar out of some old lady in Ballyfermot, then other members of the gang "investigate" the incident and release a statement that no impropriety occurred :pac:

Bacchus

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us."
You didn't read it at all, did you?

That's hardly what you'd call "demanding to be feared".

Egginacup

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Never mess with a police officer with a loaded weapon. You have no idea what sort of day they are after having and one wrong move you could end up in a black bag.

And he'll get away with it too.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Egginacup wrote: »

And he'll get away with it too.

Well if someone was stupid enough to pull a gun on him you would have to hope so.

Dan_Solo

Bacchus wrote: »

That's hardly what you'd call "demanding to be feared".

Nope, that is very obviously him demanding to be feared. Why else would he be complaining about it? He says cops used to be feared and bemoans that now they are not.
Unless you want to throw out the English dictionary and decide all these words have new meanings of course.

Bacchus

Egginacup wrote: »

Just think about that. The guy allegedly points a gun at a cop. So this guy is pointing a gun at a cop and the cop then pulls out his gun and fires several shots at the guy. Was the guy in a trance or was the cop some kind of "Sundance Kid quickdraw"?
The victim didn't get a single shot off between the time he was "pointing his weapon" at the cop until the cop reached, drew, undid the safety, aimed and fired multiple shots?

(I await the analysis of the gun nuts on here who will brag about how they can draw, aim, discharge a few rounds from their glocks into a paper target or beer can or some such sh1t in a matter of seconds)

If something more foul comes of the investigation then I'll reassess my thinking on what happened but I'm not going to get drawn in on hypotheticals. I'm sure cops are well trained to draw their guns and fire quickly. Assuming that the man did pull a gun on the cop, I don't think there is much argument saying the cop was wrong to open fire. Would we all have preferred he take a moment first and ask the man what he intended to do now that he was pointing a gun at him?

Dan_Solo

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Well if someone was stupid enough to pull a gun on him you would have to hope so.

Said the police force that plants guns.
Any independent or reliable evidence of this gun yet?

irish coldplayer

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us."
You didn't read it at all, did you?

You didn't read it at, all did YOU?

Hes not talking about law abiding citizens of whatever race or creed walking down the street, he is quite obviously talking about hardened criminals.

"Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone."

You quite obviously know this but it doesn't fit your narrative so you apply it to the population in general as a testament to the evilness of all law enforcement.
You don't have to agree with the sentiments expressed but at least don't quote them disingenuously.

Egginacup

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

Here's a letter written by a serving NYPD officer yesterday to one of the media outlets in NY.
I can't post the full page as I haven't got enough posts yet, or something.

Reading it, you'd wonder why these lads bother.



"When I was a kid I’d see my dad come home with his gun and shield, and I was beyond intrigued. He was not only my hero, but the city’s. I couldn’t wait to grow up and be a cop. Just like my dad and my older brother. I didn’t know what the pay or the benefits were, I just wanted to help people. Fast forward 20+ years and here I am. Except I’m no ones hero, actually I’m the enemy.

It wasn’t until I graduated the academy and went out on the street I realized, wow, where the **** am I? Dead bodies, homicides, drugs, guns. At first it was fun. A cat and mouse game. I get the bad guy off the street and it saves the city. As the years progressed and the neighborhoods I worked in got worse, slowly that bad guy I hunted transitioned. He was no longer a guy with a gun in his baggy pants, he was me. I was hated. By every single person I encountered. No matter what I did.

There were days I’d get my ass kicked. Days I’d get murderers and rapists off the street. It didn’t matter. I was a white Irish cop, the devil. It didn’t matter I tried in vain to give CPR to a dying baby, I was still the enemy a minute later. But at the end of the day the bad guys still feared us and that’s all that mattered.

Fast forward to the liberal anti-cop movement. City councils, CCRB, Al Sharp ton. Nobody gave a **** that every night I saw a different black man take a bullet, they just cared that it was not mine. Now I get in trouble for cursing. What? If your wrestling with a mope with a gun are you gonna curse? Are you gonna fight back? Of course cause I’m human. Suddenly though, I can’t even be human. Those rights that are demanded by these protesters, well they’re everyone’s but mine.

I swore I’d never become that cop. That old, angry, numb socially uncouth cop. Well now I make that cop look like mother Theresa. Theres only so much a person can take before they shut down. No one calls 911 for good things. It’s a daily roller coaster of bad to horrific and it never gets better.

You take this job and you know there’s a chance you can die, obviously. But you think of it as, “OK , I’m in this gun battle with a bank robber and I die in glory.” You don’t sign up for “I’m gonna be sitting in my patrol car eating lunch and get executed from behind.” Give me a chance. A chance to fight back you ****in coward. They never had a chance. And it eats me up inside.

I’m sick over it. I didn’t know them but I know them. They’re me. I’m them. I play it over and over again in my head and it makes me sick. Yeah that heartless animal murdered them, but he didn’t act alone. The city of New York run by its disgrace of a Mayor, di Blasio murdered them too. Here’s a man who stands in front of his city and tells them he’s afraid his son will get killed by a cop, all the while he has cops guarding his son 24/7. He enticed a race war. He allows a city to protest for a criminal and chant they want dead cops. Well they got what they wanted didn’t they? Right before Christmas, 2 funerals. A husband, a father, a son.

Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us. I have two little kids at home. I’m gonna leave them parentless for what? A city that hates me? Condemns me? Leave my spouse a single parent for a city that spits on me? It’s not worth it anymore.

I don’t know what’s going to happen but I do know this. You can curse us, spit on us, even fight us, but the day you kill us is the day you awake a sleeping giant. We were executed. We won’t be executed again. We are in hell right now, but if you think we are gonna sit back and get murdered you’re wrong. Their blood is on di Blasios hands. He has single handily divided the city. Not just black and white but black and blue. He stands next to Sharp ton, a man who has professed his anti-white anti-Semitic rants for decades. It’s egregious. Despicable. It’s almost like I’m in a different world. When the **** did I become the bad guy? When the **** did they let bad guys run the city?

So I never got to become that hero like my dad. But I got to share the same uniform as 2 of them-Ramos and Liu. Remember their names. They were murdered by the city of New York. The great city that I swore to protect, that never protected us back. Their execution will live heavy in my heart forever. I’ve officially lost my faith in mankind. But I haven’t yet lost my faith in God. And as I get dressed every day and put my vest on, I say a prayer to God, “Lead us to a place, guide us with your grace, to a place where we’ll be safe.” I don’t need to be a hero anymore, I just want to go home."

That's some of the worst, made up crap I have read in a long time....replete with the "CPR to a dying baby" rubbish to tug at the heart strings. Who makes up this drivel and expects the public to swallow it? It's almost as bad as that campaign to make George W. Bush look less thick than he was by pretending he was having a book reading contest with Karl Rove and even stating that Bush, the certifiable village idiot, was ahead in the contest.

Bacchus

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Nope, that is very obviously him demanding to be feared. Why else would he be complaining about it? He says cops used to be feared and bemoans that now they are not.
Unless you want to throw out the English dictionary and decide all these words have new meanings of course.

I posted this already but for your convenience...

Bacchus wrote:

Those are the words of one officer and nowhere does he demand to be feared. He uses the word "fear" to describe how the tide has shifted from criminals fearing the law to the law fearing the criminals.

I do not see it as a demand at all, particularly when you take it in the context of his entire letter. Cops need to be feared by criminals. He is pointing out that it has flipped and now cops fear their lives more than ever.

There is a greater problem that the general public now fear the cops too but I do not think at all that he wants the public to fear cops. He describes his idea of a cop a "hero" for the city. What hero wants to be feared by the people he protects?

Agricola

Seems to me theres two options. Either impose strict gun laws with the aim of severely limiting civilian access to them, or leave the law as it it and let police continue to do what they have to do, i.e. shoot people who brandish weapons in public.

mrcheez

fryup wrote: »

all americans are over weight

OT it's not "all" but a "2/3 majority". I've often wondered why this is, as we have lots of fast-food chains here but nowhere near the ratio of "fat to normals"

A lot are also quite significantly taller than the average here too.

Seems antibiotics/hormones in the food are a likely cause

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/13/5_shocking_reasons_why_americans_are_getting_fatter_partner/

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/is-fat-the-new-normal

Egginacup

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

When they tell you do something you do it. Not every police officer in the US is a Clancy Wiggum type backed up with Lou and Eddie.

Actually a police officer doesn't have the right to tell somebody to DO anything. You've obviously become a victim of authoritarianism yourself. How's that "free-est country in the world" workin' out for ya?

Dan_Solo

irish coldplayer wrote: »

You didn't read it at, all did YOU?

Hes not talking about law abiding citizens of whatever race or creed walking down the street, he is quite obviously talking about hardened criminals.

"Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone."

You quite obviously know this but it doesn't fit your narrative so you apply it to the population in general as a testament to the evilness of all law enforcement.
You don't have to agree with the sentiments expressed but at least don't quote them disingenuously.

All those things you describe as "obvious" aren't even mentioned in the text. Obvious to those determined to blindly agree regardless of what was actually said perhaps?

Bacchus

Agricola wrote: »

Seems to me theres two options. Either impose strict gun laws with the aim of severely limiting civilian access to them, or leave the law as it it and let police continue to do what they have to do, i.e. shoot people who brandish weapons in public.

or reform the police force to better tackle the problems (& criminals) they are facing.

I saw some mention of a camera on every officer (by their badge I think) so that there is full accountability for their actions. Sounded like a good place to start.

Bacchus

Dan_Solo wrote: »

All those things you describe as "obvious" aren't even mentioned in the text. Obvious to those determined to blindly agree regardless of what was actually said perhaps?

"Every single day at work I encounter real bad guys. And guess what? They know they’ve won. They know we are hesitant. That fear is gone."

Is the officer...
A) referring to the general public in this sentence?
or
referring to criminals?

Take the blinkers off.

Roger Hassenforder

Egginacup wrote: »

That's some of the worst, made up crap I have read in a long time....replete with the "CPR to a dying baby" rubbish to tug at the heart strings. Who makes up this drivel and expects the public to swallow it? .

substantiate please, other than by bias.