2 NYPD cops shot dead in retaliation...

creolebelle · 21-12-2014 3:38am

Amazingfun wrote: »

You mean you retract your statement and insinuation regarding the supposed " reality of race in the USA" since it appears you had absolutely nothing on which to base such a statement?

Yes. I understand this-same as I understood it at the time of your first posting it.

Umm no. He is sharing his reality of race in America. I based my statements on his interviews and speeches.

Filmer Paradise · 21-12-2014 3:40am

creolebelle wrote: »

I'm sorry I'm lost. But your point about choosing not to participate in society, it more of people who feel excluded by society

I'm sorry, I don't follow what you're saying here...

My view is that people should take responsability for their own lives & their own actions.

not blame the 'system' for their own mess.

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 3:41am

creolebelle wrote: »

Umm no. He is sharing his reality of race in America which is his reality. I based my statements on his interviews and speeches.

Nice try. His "experience of race" is of being raised in luxury and privilege by his white grandparent.

Anyhow you've "re-phrased" your original bunk so no need to travel down the mythical "poor black Obama" road.

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 3:44am

Guess these folks got what they were calling out for: dead cops.

creolebelle · 21-12-2014 3:45am

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't follow what you're saying here...

My view is that people should take responsability for their own lives & their own actions.

not blame the 'system' for their own mess.

I agree with this and I think most people do but I think personal responsibility is only a small factor when looking at behavior in a larger socio political framework

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 3:48am

creolebelle wrote: »

I agree with this and I think most people do but I think personal responsibility is only a small factor when looking at behavior in a larger socio political framework

Indeed.

creolebelle · 21-12-2014 3:50am

Amazingfun wrote: »

Nice try. His "experience of race" is of being raised in luxury and privilege by his white grandparent.

Anyhow you've "re-phrased" your original bunk so no need to travel down the mythical "poor black Obama" road.

His experiences are just that, HIS experiences. Not yours. I never said or implied that pres. Obama is a "poor black"

creolebelle · 21-12-2014 3:51am

Amazingfun wrote: »

Indeed.

Go on.

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 3:54am

creolebelle wrote: »

His experiences are just that, HIS experiences. Not yours. I never said or implied that pres. Obama is a "poor black"

Yes you were. Your original post claimed he was stating "the reality of race in the USA"....and on a thread where you appear to be trying to frame black crime as excusable/understandable due to some vague "socio-political" structure.

It's bunk.

Filmer Paradise · 21-12-2014 4:00am

creolebelle wrote: »

I agree with this and I think most people do but I think personal responsibility is only a small factor when looking at behavior in a larger socio political framework

So. we as a society should make allowances for a certain group of people who are used to getting handouts because they have become used to being 'victoms'

Build a bridge & get over it Folks.

FFS!

Highflyer13 · 21-12-2014 4:01am

The whole Ferguson situation is an overreaction.

creolebelle · 21-12-2014 4:01am

Amazingfun wrote: »

Yes you were. Your original post claimed he was stating "the reality of race in the USA"....and on a thread where you appear to be trying to frame black crime as excusable/understandable due to some vague "socio-political" structure.

It's bunk.

Isn't that what Obama was doing?
I think the majority of crime committed (regardless) are due to numerous sociological factors mainly poverty. Most academics would agree with my stance.
You can't reduce crime without understanding the causes of crime.

shruikan2553 · 21-12-2014 4:02am

Amazingfun wrote: »

Yes you were. Your original post claimed he was stating "the reality of race in the USA"....and on a thread where you appear to be trying to frame black crime as excusable/understandable due to some vague "socio-political" structure.

It's bunk.

If people aren't committing crime because they are poor then why are they?

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 4:03am

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If people aren't committing crime because they are poor then why are they?

That's a good question to take into your morning mediation perhaps?

creolebelle · 21-12-2014 4:05am

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

So. we as a society should make allowances for a certain group of people who are used to getting handouts because they have become used to being 'victoms'

Build a bridge & get over it Folks.

FFS!

What society? The global society? American society? Irish society?
What allowances? And for whom?

The murderer of the 2 police officers was
obviously an unhinged individual and should have never had access to a gun in the first place. Now 4 people are dead

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 4:06am

creolebelle wrote: »

Isn't that what Obama was doing?
I think the majority of crime committed (regardless) are due to numerous sociological factors mainly poverty. Most academics would agree with my stance.
You can't reduce crime without understanding the causes of crime.

Yes and it's why he isn't fit to be a leader of anything-much less President of the still majority white USA.

I already posted an article earlier in the thread addressing levels crime in one of the poorest white regions in the US- (98% white) Appalachia. You ought to read it.

shruikan2553 · 21-12-2014 4:07am

Amazingfun wrote: »

That's a good question to take into your morning mediation perhaps?

I don't meditate...

http://www.poverties.org/poverty-and-crime.html

Looks like where there's poverty you'll often find crime.

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 4:15am

Again-reality bites:

“Owsley County, Ky. – There are lots of diversions in the Big White Ghetto, the vast moribund matrix of Wonder Bread–hued Appalachian towns and villages stretching from northern Mississippi to southern New York, a slowly dissipating nebula of poverty and misery with its heart in eastern Kentucky, the last redoubt of the Scots-Irish working class that picked up where African slave labor left off, mining and cropping and sawing the raw materials for a modern American economy that would soon run out of profitable uses for the class of people who 500 years ago would have been known, without any derogation, as peasants. …

There’s a great deal of drug use, welfare fraud, and the like, but the overall crime rate throughout Appalachia is about two-thirds the national average, and the rate of violent crime is half the national average, according to the National Criminal Justice Reference Service. …”

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

shruikan2553 · 21-12-2014 4:17am

Amazingfun wrote: »

Again-reality bites:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

Well that's it, 1 example throws professionals research out the window. Better send them an email and let them know you know better based on a sample size of one.

Still haven't explained why a black person would be more likely to commit a crime.

Amazingfun · 21-12-2014 4:19am

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Well that's it, 1 example throws professionals research out the window. Better send them an email and let them know you know better based on a sample size of one.

Still haven't explained why a black person would be more likely to commit a crime.

I'd almost laugh were this not such an embarrassing post for you ...though it's doubtful you'd ever grasp why.

I'm done

shruikan2553 · 21-12-2014 4:20am

Amazingfun wrote: »

I'd almost laugh were this not such an embarrassing post for you ...though it's doubtful you'd ever grasp why.

I'm done

You're done explaining why a black person would commit more crime? Didn't realise you started.

Sir Gallagher · 21-12-2014 4:53am

Isn't it funny how internet weirdos basically latch on to American social problems as if they're living there.

Lunatics from the likes of Borris on Ossary sitting there on the net getting all worked up about gun ownership in the states and how blacks should be happy with their lot because Obama is president, as if it somehow affects them.

Little CuChulainn · 21-12-2014 5:33am

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Well that's it, 1 example throws professionals research out the window. Better send them an email and let them know you know better based on a sample size of one.

Still haven't explained why a black person would be more likely to commit a crime.

Because the economic and racist history of the USA means black people are more likely to live in poverty in the present day and poverty is a breeding ground for criminality.

RDM_83 again · 21-12-2014 5:36am

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Isn't it funny how internet weirdos basically latch on to American social problems as if they're living there.

Lunatics from the likes of Borris on Ossary sitting there on the net getting all worked up about gun ownership in the states and how blacks should be happy with their lot because Obama is president, as if it somehow affects them.

And conversely exactly the same is true of the other side my facebook has had a lot more about the racism of US police in the last few months than the reactionary response to this.
People were wandering around in vote obama t-shirts in Dublin when he first ran lets not pretend that its only the conservatives that latch onto stuff that doesn't effect them and they have limited knowledge off.

As an outside ill informed observer I'm not sure what to make of it, the Police in the USA seem brutal and there seems to be a culture in general of a massive over response, at the same time if you do the crime or are violent in a society where this is a fact of life you have to wonder what was the expected response.
Trying to conflate these recent events to the situations in the past involving the ANC, IRA, ETA and so on are just false, rightly or wrongly they had a goal and political ideology where as these events in the states just seem to be people that in a western european country would have been hit by a baton and arrested rather than shot.

jank · 21-12-2014 5:39am

Some of the usual suspects in positions of leadership and influence have reacted terribly to the Brown and Garner killings. Mouthing off with no thoughts on the repercussions. Once the genie is out of the bottle it is very hard to put it back in. The likes of Al Sharpton is no where to be seen when police have to clean up the mess they help create.

I posted this before, but it deserves another airing especially given that two police officers were executed in their cars.

In New York, the new democratic mayor who has been in office only 6 months has destroyed the strong relationship that was formed 20 years ago when Gullinao brought crime in NY to heal, thus saving thousands of lives most of those minorities. NYPD here seen as turnig their back on him as he is seen has having hung the NYPD out to dry.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-cops-turn-backs-de-blasio-hospital-article-1.2052215

The mayor will be lucky to last one term at the rate he his going.

Nodin · 21-12-2014 6:18am

Amazingfun wrote: »

That's a good question to take into your morning mediation perhaps?

Why can't you answer - If people aren't committing crime because they are poor then why are they doing so?

The Diabolical Monocle · 21-12-2014 6:42am

Nodin wrote: »

Why can't you answer - If people aren't committing crime because they are poor then why are they doing so?

yo its early man, maybe he be tryin to get his sleep on.

jank · 21-12-2014 6:58am

Nodin wrote: »

Why can't you answer - If people aren't committing crime because they are poor then why are they doing so?

Why do middle class and rich people commit crime?

JONJO THE MISER · 21-12-2014 7:30am

Amazingfun wrote: »

Again-reality bites:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

Fantastic read there, cant help but find the author very condesending to the place.

JONJO THE MISER · 21-12-2014 7:32am

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Lunatics from the likes of Borris on Ossary

There not all bad, few gooduns there:D

2 NYPD cops shot dead in retaliation...

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