**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Phoebas

RollieFingers wrote: »

Any proof?

Proof????
We don't need proof around here - feelings are what count.

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

listermint wrote: »

That is fine, But you post had mentioned that there was a majority out there that support the government. Yet you have no basis for this at all.

Did I ?

You seem to have just picked my post at random and attached your reply to it. The fact it wasn't relevant to what was being discussed doesn't seem to matter. By all means puts your posts in the thread, but attaching mine to them makes no sense.

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Phoebas wrote: »

Proof????
We don't need proof around here - feelings are what count.

They certainly are for most of the pro water tax side who class everyone against it as 'scroungers, shinners, scumbags' etc etc.

RollieFingers

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's the one you were taking out for a spin last night,

LOL

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

As i said yesterday, These edgits will hang on one guy throwing a brick at a squad car as an indication that all 150,000 people are jobless scumbags.

Which i take as very personal.

Myself and my family have never been without work. My father was on the March in November as was i he has worked every day in his life and his father before him. Very proud of that and whats more we are political agnostic. I have never been involved in politics and have no affiliations and neither did any of them.

I wasnt at the Joan Moan yesterday

FG are mobilising people because we are fed up.

What is more gauling is they dont seem to give a crap how anything they do is perceived. The ran out of fuel on the FF line about 18 months ago and the veil has now slipped. Its about timing. They have nothing left to hang their blame coat on anymore.



But sure some lad threw a brick at a squad car and that makes me and 3 generations of my family left scumbags? Its scumbags that are painting genuine grievances of people as somehow antidemocratic.

RollieFingers

Phoebas wrote: »

Proof????
We don't need proof around here - feelings are what count.

So you have a feeling that the brick thrower was a plant from the Guards..........

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Jesus lads, get over the brick, will ya's..
A scumbag fired a brick at a cop car, hopefully he was caught and charged.
Any normal person looking at the original photo would think it was photoshopped.
The video proved otherwise.
Is this all you have left now to attack anti water tax posters?
Sad.

Look at all the comments on the facebook pages. ITs still full of people flat out denyng it happened, still saying the photos (now that its a series of them and not just one) are photoshopped or saying its a Gard that's throwing it. The continuation of the discussion on it seems 95% on denials rather than from people using it to give out about protesters.

dxhound2005

dublin-texas wrote: »

And all of this over a maximum of 21 cents a day per person.

In some countries on the continent you have to pay 550€ a year for a single person.

We have to pay 76€ (after the 100€ the government is giving us back) per person with a maximum of 2 persons per household. This is based on the current publicly known plans.

This whole IW scenario makes neither commercial nor political sense at this point, it was (and continues) to be an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Right now the only way forward is to re-organize IW into a commercially viable organisation (reducing the fat), coming up with a commercial viable business plan (how to archive the modernisation of the water system that is so urgently needed) and then cost it out based on consumption.

Once that has been implemented the taxes that were raised to pay for water need to reduce as IW needs to take these on.

However what is possible going to happen is that the meters they just installed are going to be ignored for years to come, a flat charge is going to be introduced for years to come and the whole administration of water charges and pay-out of rebates via the department of social protection will eat away the actual paid charges. That than will result in the government needing to raise further taxes to make up all the money that is needed to improve the infrastructure.

All of this will result in higher taxes that are needed to prop up IW core functions instead of having IW using the money they got from consumption charges. The taxpayers are going to have to pay way more for this than they should.

And as to all of those who say the government has no mandate and want an election now, sure and when it comes what else are you going to vote into power for the next couple of years? Is there actually a real alternative out there?

Depends on what you mean by a real alternative. There will certainly be real choice. In every constituency as well as the traditional parties there will likely be numerous "anti austerity" candidates including Sinn Fein who will promise to abolish water charges and property tax if they get into power.

That is democracy in action. People will have a clear choice.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Did I ?

Yes you did. And there you go with the one line single line response approach.

On that basis i wont engage with you. I was willing to give you a change for reproach based on your longevity here but it appears your the same as the new joiners. Unable to construct a post addressing my full posts.


Good luck enjoy your sunday. read a book have a tea. Maybe ponder a while about others and the direction our country has gone the last number of years.

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

listermint wrote: »

On that basis i wont engage with you..

That's perfectly fine, because, as I've already said, your the one engaging with me in the first place. My posts have no connection to yours other than you quoted it and put it at the top of an unconnected post.

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Look at all the comments on the facebook pages. ITs still full of people flat out denyng it happened, still saying the photos (now that its a series of them and not just one) are photoshopped or saying its a Gard that's throwing it. The continuation of the discussion on it seems 95% on denials rather than from people using it to give out about protesters.

It's a sad state of affairs when a large section of the population don't believe anything from government or from the press.
Tell you what, I'll be looking out for the court date for 'the prick with the brick' though.

twowheelsgood

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Jesus lads, get over the brick, will ya's..
A scumbag fired a brick at a cop car, hopefully he was caught and charged.
Any normal person looking at the original photo would think it was photoshopped.
The video proved otherwise.
Is this all you have left now to attack anti water tax posters?
Sad.

Any normal thinking person would be astounded if the picture turned out to be fake. It would have made close to zero sense.

The real lesson about that incident is how absolutely convinced the conspirators were that it was a fake.They had established this as all but fact until the video emerged. (Had it not, the nonsense would continue – and does as it happens).

It exposes your gullibility and underlines your credibility. How many other “facts” do you hold as true as convincingly as you this incident?

ROCKMAN

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They also represented a few people who did make it, were counted in numbers but don't have an opinion (or at least one of their own), like kids.

True I will not argue that the numbers were effected by the number of children in attendance but a lot of people were there because of them and their future.

But if you think that the majority of the country are not in favour of changes/anti-water.


What way would an referendum on Water go ???

Honest answer please.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Tinkersbell wrote: »

It's a sad state of affairs when a large section of the population don't believe anything from government or from the press.
Tell you what, I'll be looking out for the court date for 'the prick with the brick' though.

Even if they caught him he would get out the revolving door of the judical system. As if the gardai dont have a hard enough time catching people they are fecked back out on the street.

But sure thats fine. As everything is rosie in Ireland. The majority of people are happy and everyone has jobs. Even in the west coast.


Still waiting on some figures on emmigration. Our resident FG flag waver Phoebas will be back shortly with the facts, or not. As the case has been over the course of the last few pages.

Yggr of Asgard

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Depends on what you mean by a real alternative. There will certainly be real choice. In every constituency as well as the traditional parties there will likely be numerous "anti austerity" candidates including Sinn Fein who will promise to abolish water charges and property tax if they get into power.

That is democracy in action. People will have a clear choice.

But that is my point, there is not going to be a real alternative out there that would be able to form a government that can address all issues that this country is facing.

There are going to be as you say loads of “anti-austerity” candidates but these are single issue candidates, which is going to be an issue when it comes to other topics than water charges etc.

How are we go get a government that is able to address the other challenges that are out there for example losing the hundreds of thousands of jobs due to the changes in how a company’s income will be taxed in Europe under the new tax regime that the EU brings in? How is a single issue government going to be able to secure our future in light of climate change? If the sea water is going to raise considerable we are an island after all.

Right now the only choice is for the lesser of several evils promising short term fixes without addressing the future.

dxhound2005

ROCKMAN wrote: »

True I will not argue that the numbers were effected by the number of children in attendance but a lot of people were there because of them and their future.

But if you think that the majority of the country are not in favour of changes/anti-water.


What way would an referendum on Water go ???

Honest answer please.

What sort of referendum?

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Any normal thinking person would be astounded if the picture turned out to be fake. It would have made close to zero sense.

The real lesson about that incident is how absolutely convinced the conspirators were that it was a fake.They had established this as all but fact until the video emerged. (Had it not, the nonsense would continue – and does as it happens).

It exposes your gullibility and underlines your credibility. How many other “facts” do you hold as true as convincingly as you this incident?

Stop hanging up on a single individual who threw a brick,

It exposes your credibility as you have added zero to the discussion and actually failed on all counts to address the points put to you.

The fact that you have ignored and not engaged quite exhaustive posts about why people are out on the streets and angry is a tell that you dont actually have a response.

I think you know that, so you put the coat on a single hook each time.


The non thinking mans response. It must be tough to construct an arguement out of falsehoods and lies. So you rely on the actions of a single individual to plot your course.


Its fierce obvious and in fact i get my jollies exposing you lads for the content that you come out with.


Address the point of the thread and stop indicating that the protesters are all brick throwing Neanderthals

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

twowheelsgood wrote: »

It exposes your gullibility and underlines your credibility. How many other “facts” do you hold as true as convincingly as you this incident?

My gullibility?

I question everything, you take what you're fed as fact.

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

Stop hanging up on a single individual who threw a brick,

It exposes your credibility as you have added zero to the discussion and actually failed on all counts to address the points put to you.

The fact that you have ignored and not engaged quite exhaustive posts about why people are out on the streets and angry is a tell that you dont actually have a response.

I think you know that, so you put the coat on a single hook each time.


The non thinking mans response. It must be tough to construct an arguement out of falsehoods and lies. So you rely on the actions of a single individual to plot your course.


Its fierce obvious and in fact i get my jollies exposing you lads for the content that you come out with.


Address the point of the thread and stop indicating that the protesters are all brick throwing Neanderthals

Why are you trying to close down discussion of violence by protestors? It is the current topic for debate. Just like the incident in Dundalk took up many pages of comment here when it was reported. Even though it did not represent the behaviour in general of meter installers.

twowheelsgood

listermint wrote: »

Stop hanging up on a single individual who threw a brick

Well done on totally missing my point.

listermint wrote: »

Address the point of ….

Speaking of which:

Are you sticking by your assertion that “Society is not right unless we are prospering” and by extension if people are not prospering, the government are taking the wrong approach?

Are you going to answer that or continue to deflect?

Gentleman Off The Pitch

I do not want to pay for water in any way

I think if behaviour like we saw from a few idiots at the protest in Jobstown yesterday continues, it will only alienate the "not against water charges in principle but want the Irish Water quango wiped out" section of the public, which won't do the anti water charges movement any good, and would suit the government just fine

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

ROCKMAN wrote: »

True I will not argue that the numbers were effected by the number of children in attendance but a lot of people were there because of them and their future.

But if you think that the majority of the country are not in favour of changes/anti-water.


What way would an referendum on Water go ???

Honest answer please.

Ive said it before on the thread, getting people to support the idea of not having another bill in the door isn't hard. Educating them on why you should pay for water is a much more difficult job.

dxhound2005

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

I think if behaviour like we saw from a few idiots at the protest in Jobstown yesterday continues, it will only alienate the "not against water charges in principle but want the Irish Water quango wiped out" section of the public, which won't do the anti water charges movement any good, and would suit the government just fine

Paul Murphy is not interested in any of that. He is on a mission to create anarchy. He tried to get the European Parliament to vote for a Europe wide general strike.

JRant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Who are these people protesting for a general election? This government was democratically elected by the Irish people. This is a democracy and we should not let some fascist keyboard warriors dictate who governs this country. They are the traitors not the government.

You have your "ism's" mixed up there.

The only facists in this country wore blue shirts.

ps. You forgot to mention welfare.

Phoebas

Tinkersbell wrote: »

My gullibility?

I question everything, you take what your fed as fact.

You weren't in questioning mode earlier when you gullibly bought into the photoshop story hook line and sinker.

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Cop on to yourself will ya.
It's a photoshop, a blind man could see it.

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Paul Murphy is not interested in any of that. He is on a mission to create anarchy. He tried to get the European Parliament to vote for a Europe wide general strike.

Paul murphy should be commended imo.

A shining example of a TD actually working in behalf of the people who voted him in.

HamsterFace

Why don't these protestors pour their considerable efforts into protesting against the USC charge which costs significantly more to working families?

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Phoebas wrote: »

You weren't in questioning mode earlier when you gullibly bought into the photoshop story hook line and sinker.

Eh, it was me who first questioned the photo.

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

HamsterFace wrote: »

Why don't these protestors pour their considerable efforts into protesting against the USC charge which costs significantly more to working families?

Probably because they're all unemployed scroungers.:mad:
























According to the pro tax brigade.;)

Pocoyo

I agree with metered water charges

A stupid 17 year old kid throws a brick at the back of a car...time for marshal law.

I suppose we will have to kneecap him now seen as we are all 'dissidents'