**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Weren't water charges in the FG pre election promises and in the program for government?

Doesn't count if you voted for Labour.

Chocolate Lions

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Larbre34 wrote: »

When people are elected on the basis of falsehoods, its time for a new election. The current government have betrayed their own mandate. Time to go.

Who da fuk. You questioning the big boys? Get your head back in the sand beside Kermit there. :P

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Weren't water charges in the FG pre election promises and in the program for government?

Shall i bring up Roscommon and Cancer units.

Top to bottom lies.

We were also told the LPT was to pay for the local services including water, what we didnt release was that it was to go for the SETUP of a water company.

Wheres your outrage on that, or are you just painting an agenda brush.

Anyone can use snippets of facts, your just happened to be less true than mine.

twowheelsgood

listermint wrote: »

Society is not right unless we are prospering

So I guess the last time our society was "right" was just before the crash? :pac:

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

twowheelsgood wrote: »

So I guess the last time our society was "right" was just before the crash? :pac:

No there was many ills, corruption cronyism, jobs for the boys unvouched expenses.

but sure didnt your party say we would 'change' all that


VOTE FOR CHANGE


Yes thats the byline.

Oh and it tricked me into giving my vote.


Now what has your party changed about my first line..... Give it to me.

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

listermint wrote: »

Society is not right unless we are prospering, Im sure you are smart enough to realise that there is genuine malaise out there about the government.

While you might be doing alright in your little corner there, I am too. I am doing just fine. But i dont have accessive money to stick into savings. I get by. Herself hasnt had wages increases in 3 years. The company she works for are using it as a stick to bait people down while they are actually doing quite well themselves.

Its a status quo thing. Less and less people are feeling the real recovery that we are supposed to be feeling and that his talked about in government corridors. The jobless figures are being heavily massaged , this has been proven.

There is a lack of empathy between people who are 'doing' alright.

Im not apologising for having empathy with people who are doing, lets be frank '****'.

And im not apologising for being incredibly angry about how my top rate of tax is being squandered. Story after story of waste excess and general we dont really care about perception..

Does none of this actually annoy you ?

We have learned NOTHING from the last crowds reign. I voted for this crowd. They have achieved nothing that i voted for. I feel like a gnome.

That's not really what the post was about though.

Who takes to the street to protest about them being ok?

Apparently if you don't have any issues, you don't have a valid opinion unless your out on the streets shouting about how satisfied you are. The specifics of why aren't really relevant. Do only 100,000 - 150,000 people in the country now have a right to make all the decisions? I thought we've decided as a society that elections were the place for these things?
surely anyone that supports the government doesn't have to get out on the streets every few weeks so the section that don't can allow them an opinion?

twowheelsgood

listermint wrote: »

No there was many ills, corruption cronyism, jobs for the boys unvouched expenses.

but sure didnt your party say we would 'change' all that


VOTE FOR CHANGE


Yes thats the byline.

Oh and it tricked me into giving my vote.


Now what has your party changed about my first line..... Give it to me.

Let’s stick with what you posted. You said “Society is not right unless we are prospering”.

So whatever about the other society ills you refer to, economically we were “right” just before the crash. And at present, we are not “right” because many people are far from prospering? Is this your view or not?

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Let’s stick with what you posted. You said “Society is not right unless we are prospering”.

So whatever about the other society ills you refer to, economically we were “right” just before the crash. And at present, we are not “right” because many people are far from prospering? Is this your view or not?

You completely ignored my answer to your question.

now try again.

twowheelsgood

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Who takes to the street to protest about them being ok?

It might help if those making this daft claim were to examine the semantics of the word "protest".

Our mode of action is to boycott not protest, and I thought the numbers boycotting the protests were quite impressive.

twowheelsgood

listermint wrote: »

You completely ignored my answer to your question.

now try again.

No you made a point (that you seem unable to defend) and then tried to shift the discussion to something else that you can defend.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That's not really what the post was about though.

Who takes to the street to protest about them being ok?

Apparently if you don't have any issues, you don't have a valid opinion unless your out on the streets shouting about how satisfied you are. The specifics of why aren't really relevant. Do only 100,000 - 150,000 people in the country now have a right to make all the decisions? I thought we've decided as a society that elections were the place for these things?
surely anyone that supports the government doesn't have to get out on the streets every few weeks so the section that don't can allow them an opinion?

Where did i say that in my post ? I think you are confusing me with another poster. And yet again you and the wheelie lad failed to address anything legitimate in my post.


It is like you are afraid to agree with anything i said despite the fact its true.

You know someone is a hardliner when they cant empathise with other peoples plight.

Ive already told you i voted for FG and Labour. I already told you im no some SF bot, Ive already told you I have quite a good job and i am very happy with my personal lot.

But equally i have you some legitimate grievances and you failed to address even a single one of them.

Its obvious when someone is a mindless one sider when they only cherry pick single lines out of peoples posts and hang on them. You cant address the wider issue because you dont want to. You know there is alot wrong that we should quite rightly be concerned about but you dont care.

And thats a pretty sad state of mind to be in.

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

listermint wrote: »

No there was many ills, corruption cronyism, jobs for the boys unvouched expenses.

but sure didnt your party say we would 'change' all that


VOTE FOR CHANGE


Yes thats the byline.

Oh and it tricked me into giving my vote.


Now what has your party changed about my first line..... Give it to me.

Nothing has changed regarding cronyism and corruption, that's a fact.
We were so desperate to get rid of FF that we forgot to consider FG's dodgy history when it comes to the above.

For Forks Sake

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Doesn't count if you voted for Labour.

Do you have the slightest notion as to what the terms "coalition" and "programme for government" mean, and what they involve?

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

twowheelsgood wrote: »

No you made a point (that you seem unable to defend) and then tried to shift the discussion to something else that you can defend.

Im not shifting dicussion, but its plain as day you are.

Go an read my entire post history here. I have never once shifted discussion. But it is crystal clear when there is someone so single track minded that their agenda is fairly obvious.

Either that or they are as ignorant as those in power.


'Chose not to see, choose not to do'


But sure its fine, i can see the content of your posts for what they are.

:rolleyes:

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Do you have the slightest notion as to what the terms "coalition" and "programme for government" mean, and what they involve?

listermint wrote: »

Shall i bring up Roscommon and Cancer units.

Top to bottom lies.

We were also told the LPT was to pay for the local services including water, what we didnt release was that it was to go for the SETUP of a water company.

Wheres your outrage on that, or are you just painting an agenda brush.

Anyone can use snippets of facts, your just happened to be less true than mine.

please address

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Do you have the slightest notion as to what the terms "coalition" and "programme for government" mean, and what they involve?

Still doesn't change my point.
Remember the 'tesco style' advert Labour had in all the papers?
BTW, keep your sh1tty condescending tone for someone who cares.

RollieFingers

What will be the next conspiracy theory launched by the rent a mob? Shouting from the rooftops that the brick throwing photo was photoshopped and then having to look at clear proof of the incident on video must have been hard to swallow!

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

listermint wrote: »

Where did i say that in my post ? I think you are confusing me with another poster. And yet again you and the wheelie lad failed to address anything legitimate in my post.


It is like you are afraid to agree with anything i said despite the fact its true.

You know someone is a hardliner when they cant empathise with other peoples plight.

Ive already told you i voted for FG and Labour. I already told you im no some SF bot, Ive already told you I have quite a good job and i am very happy with my personal lot.

But equally i have you some legitimate grievances and you failed to address even a single one of them.

Its obvious when someone is a mindless one sider when they only cherry pick single lines out of peoples posts and hang on them. You cant address the wider issue because you dont want to. You know there is alot wrong that we should quite rightly be concerned about but you dont care.

And thats a pretty sad state of mind to be in.

Are you sure it wasn't you that quoted me in error ? None of what was in your post was relevant to my post you quoted.

I didn't vote for the current government BTW.

The conversation was about people only having an opinion if they deliver it on the streets, either pro or anti whatever the current mood is. I called bull**** on that. It wasn't a specific comment on the current goings on, the current government, Ireland or anything else. It was a general point.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

RollieFingers wrote: »

What will be the next conspiracy theory launched by the rent a mob? Shouting from the rooftops that the brick throwing photo was photoshopped and then having to look at clear proof of the incident on video must have been hard to swallow!

What was the first ?

VinLieger

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Any climb down happening by the anti side after the brick photos have proven to be real? You gonna admit finally that there's a sinister element involved trying to hijack things and it's not a media or gardai invention?

Phoebas

RollieFingers wrote: »

What will be the next conspiracy theory launched by the rent a mob? Shouting from the rooftops that the brick throwing photo was photoshopped and then having to look at clear proof of the incident on video must have been hard to swallow!

The latest is that the photos are real but the brick thrower was fake :pac:

FREETV wrote: »

It turns out that the guy throwing the brick is a Guard called Brian from the Store Street Garda Station. A complete plant and an Agent Provocateur.
There was a witness who saw him before interacting and laughing with the Guards and that knows who he is!

ROCKMAN

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That's not really what the post was about though.

Who takes to the street to protest about them being ok?

Apparently if you don't have any issues, you don't have a valid opinion unless your out on the streets shouting about how satisfied you are. The specifics of why aren't really relevant. Do only 100,000 - 150,000 people in the country now have a right to make all the decisions? I thought we've decided as a society that elections were the place for these things?
surely anyone that supports the government doesn't have to get out on the streets every few weeks so the section that don't can allow them an opinion?

But these 100,000 to 150,000 represented a hell of a lot more people who for one or another reasons could not make it in person on these particular days ,Take my own case on the 1st of Nov marches my wife attend the march and was really represented the views and opinions of 6 people,
Maybe not enough to make all the decisions but sure as hell enough to have at least a say in these decisions.

A fact not lost on the government just look at all the manoeuvring and backpedalling we have seen over the last weeks as proof.

RollieFingers

Phoebas wrote: »

The latest is that the photos are real but the brick thrower was fake :pac:

Any proof?

RollieFingers

listermint wrote: »

What was the first ?

Did I say there was a first?

twowheelsgood

listermint wrote: »

Im not shifting dicussion .....

So you are sticking by your assertion that “Society is not right unless we are prospering” and by extension if people are not prospering, the government are taking the wrong approach?

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Jesus lads, get over the brick, will ya's..
A scumbag fired a brick at a cop car, hopefully he was caught and charged.
Any normal person looking at the original photo would think it was photoshopped.
The video proved otherwise.
Is this all you have left now to attack anti water tax posters?
Sad.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are you sure it wasn't you that quoted me in error ? None of what was in your post was relevant to my post you quoted.

I didn't vote for the current government BTW.

The conversation was about people only having an opinion if they deliver it on the streets, either pro or anti whatever the current mood is. I called bull**** on that. It wasn't a specific comment on the current goings on, the current government, Ireland or anything else. It was a general point.

That is fine, But you post had mentioned that there was a majority out there that support the government. Yet you have no basis for this at all.

Contrary despite that if you speak to anyone, including my colleagues friends family, All of these people are from a broad regional and socio economic background. All of them are angry and feel let down.

There are people out protesting who have never been to the streets in their lifes. For all the reasons i outlined, but again you chose to ignore every single reason i posted that people are out on the streets. You deflected and hang on one point, Because there is a fear there that if you agree with any of it.

Good luck

Yggr of Asgard

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

And all of this over a maximum of 21 cents a day per person.

In some countries on the continent you have to pay 550€ a year for a single person.

We have to pay 76€ (after the 100€ the government is giving us back) per person with a maximum of 2 persons per household. This is based on the current publicly known plans.

This whole IW scenario makes neither commercial nor political sense at this point, it was (and continues) to be an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Right now the only way forward is to re-organize IW into a commercially viable organisation (reducing the fat), coming up with a commercial viable business plan (how to archive the modernisation of the water system that is so urgently needed) and then cost it out based on consumption.

Once that has been implemented the taxes that were raised to pay for water need to reduce as IW needs to take these on.

However what is possible going to happen is that the meters they just installed are going to be ignored for years to come, a flat charge is going to be introduced for years to come and the whole administration of water charges and pay-out of rebates via the department of social protection will eat away the actual paid charges. That than will result in the government needing to raise further taxes to make up all the money that is needed to improve the infrastructure.

All of this will result in higher taxes that are needed to prop up IW core functions instead of having IW using the money they got from consumption charges. The taxpayers are going to have to pay way more for this than they should.

And as to all of those who say the government has no mandate and want an election now, sure and when it comes what else are you going to vote into power for the next couple of years? Is there actually a real alternative out there?

Phoebas

listermint wrote: »

What was the first ?

Here's the one you were taking out for a spin last night,

listermint wrote: »

Real or fake I'd would surprise me little if a reporter handed someone a hundred note to make some good photos for joan to deflect about in the morning.

The media and the government are. Unscrupulous in their pursuit to tar all these protests with an 'element'

Guy:Incognito

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

ROCKMAN wrote: »

But these 100,000 to 150,000 represented a hell of a lot more people who for one or another reasons could not make it in person on these particular days ,Take my own case on the 1st of Nov marches my wife attend the march and was really represented the views and opinions of 6 people,


A fact not lost on the government just look at all the manoeuvring and backpedalling we have seen over the last weeks as proof.

They also represented a few people who did make it, were counted in numbers but don't have an opinion (or at least one of their own), like kids.