Sexy street harassment

OldNotWIse

Playboy wrote: »

Eh not sure why this is difficult for you. That was the point I was making, Both you and I can make very different arguments based on personal experience so really its all a bit pointless isnt it?



You get what you give! Have a look at your own posting style to see why people would respond as I have.

The only reason you don't like my posting style is because I called you on your own bullshít and I guess you have a problem with that. Do you take that attitude with you when you try to converse with females in the pub? Think we might be onto something here....

OldNotWIse

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Tbh though, I'm not interested in educating anyone in social skills, if you haven't learned at this stage, it's unlikely you ever will, and so you shall continue to suffer the indignity of being told "fcuk off you bell end" when you intrude on other people with no regard to how your intrusion may be perceived from their point of view.

:pac:

Foxtrol

secondrowgal wrote: »

I have followed this thread with interest. The last few pages, in particular the exchange between Foxtrol and OEJ, shows a microcosm of this misunderstanding in action, just in IMVHO.

OEJ has repeatedly and politely told Foxtrol that she finds such and such a harassment, that she will deal with it as she feels appropriately, starting off politely and possibly ending with a leave me the xxxx alone when all else fails.
Foxtol appears to refuse to believe what she is saying, dismisses her experience and her opinions and continues to harangue her about being polite.

Now that's just my take on reading posts with no body-language, no tone, etc., but if I can get that from the written word, why can't some guys understand that their behaviour is harassing? (I don't mean that Foxtol is harassing OEJ per se, just an analogy)

Just catching up on this thread and this is hilarious and very much an example of what one of my original points were on this thread.

Just because you or OEJ feels that I was being harassing (apparently that's what a discussion is these days or is it wrong to disagree with women these days?) doesn't mean that my actions were wrong. If someone can't handle dealing human interaction and perceive a discussion/someone approaching them them as harassment then they should look at themselves, not the people who are trying to politely interact with them.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just catching up on this thread and this is hilarious and very much an example of what one of my original points were on this thread.

Just because you or OEJ feels that I was being harassing (apparently that's what a discussion is these days or is it wrong to disagree with women these days?) doesn't mean that my actions were wrong. If someone can't handle dealing human interaction and perceive a discussion/someone approaching them them as harassment then they should look at themselves, not the people who are trying to politely interact with them.

So, it's not you with the problem, it's them.

You don't get to decide that someone has a right to feel harassed or not, and you don't have the right to decide that someone who isn't interested in entertaining your interactions has a problem with 'human interaction'.

Maybe it's just you.

Playboy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

The only reason you don't like my posting style is because I called you on your own bullshít and I guess you have a problem with that. Do you take that attitude with you when you try to converse with females in the pub? Think we might be onto something here....

You didn't call me on anything. Go back and read my original post. The point you claimed to have called me on is a point that I had already addressed in that post. You just hadn't bothered to read it properly. It's very evident to me why you get bad reactions from guys when you are out on about if you have this inflated sense of your own importance and attractiveness, you don't bother to listen to people and then you are aggressively dismissive. Changing your own behavior may change the how people respond to and interact with you.

Foxtrol

Candie wrote: »

So, it's not you with the problem, it's them.

You don't get to decide that someone has a right to feel harassed or not, and you don't have the right to decide that someone who isn't interested in entertaining your interactions has a problem with 'human interaction'.

Maybe it's just you.

When did I say I get the right to decide how they feel?

They can feel however they want but it doesn't mean that the other person is doing something wrong by politely saying hello.

Just because someone feels a certain way doesn't make them the overlord of what is right or wrong in the world!

Playboy

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We're not just talking about walking up to someone and politely saying hello here though, are we?

Where did we decide that? The thing is you dont know why someone is approaching you until they actually make it clear so usually its best to listen first before you make any assumptions

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Your motivations go beyond just a simple hello. You're looking for a favorable response from a specific individual, and if you can't assess the likelihood from a distance that the person is likely to tell you to fcuk off, etc, then the fault IS yours.

Lol... really so guys who are looking to approach a female now have to assess from a distance what the outcome will be before they actually speak to someone. Glad I'm not dating if this is the prevalent attitude of the day.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Would you approach someone you weren't attracted to and politely say hello to them with the same motivations as you would have you approach a person you're attracted to?

I speak to many people when I'm out and about both male and female and who are strangers. Have you never had a conversation with someone while waiting for a drink at a bar, when outside having a smoke, queuing to get in somewhere? I dont expect every person I speak to, to immediately assume that I'm trying to get in their knickers. Maybe people should try and be polite when speaking to someone else until it becomes clear that being polite isnt going to work. Responding aggressively immediately is only going to escalate the situation and likely produce remarks like "stuck up cnt".

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Whatever other motivations there are for people approaching each other aren't particularly relevant here. In this thread we're only talking about one specific motivation which you can either acknowledge, or continue to play down in an attempt to make out you had no motive for approaching a person you found attractive and wanted their attention. Do you assume all people aren't as clever as you that they can't tell what your motivations are? It's written all over your face before you even open your mouth.

Of course they are relevant because you are making an assumption that a person is coming on to you before they even open their mouth. Whether they are interested in you sexually or not there is a polite way to handle it. If you dont see this then it says a lot about you and your upbringing to be honest

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You're responsible for initiating the interaction, so if the person perceives you to be behaving like an absolute bell end towards them, then they're naturally going to react on instinct. You're saying you reserve the right to react how you see fit, so you're saying that you're entitled to be in complete control of the interaction because you initiated the interaction. Nobody here has mentioned aggression, but because you're saying you reserve the right to react however you see fit, you're already spoiling for a fight before you've even approached!

You tying yourself up in knots here. All I said is that I'm in control of my own response. If someone approaches you aggressively or acting like a dck then you have to decide the most appropriate way to react. I would advise that responding aggressively to an aggressive approach is likely to escalate a situation.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Correction - YOU said nothing about entitlement, but your post actually reeks of entitlement, all about you and your rights and what you deserve, but nothing about what you owe the other person?

Lol can i have whatever you are smoking? All I expect from any person who I approach politely is a polite response... if you think that reeks of entitlement then just lol!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You're also the person arguing that you're entitled to intrude on another person and expecting they should respect you for the unwelcome intrusion. It's a sad day indeed when a person can't go about their business unhindered by people who want their attention but offer nothing in return.

I'm arguing nothing of the sort. People need to speak to each other. Its called civilization, if you want to be a hermit then go live in the woods where nobody can bother you.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Tbh though, I'm not interested in educating anyone in social skills, if you haven't learned at this stage, it's unlikely you ever will, and so you shall continue to suffer the indignity of being told "fcuk off you bell end" when you intrude on other people with no regard to how your intrusion may be perceived from their point of view.

Luckily I'm happily married for about 8 years so I dont have to worry about being told to fck off by socially inept egotistical women. When I was going to pubs and clubs I dont remember people being so rude or ignorant, maybe its a recent development? How about you climb down off your high horse, everyone who wants to speak to you doesn't likely think you are some prize to be wooed. I have zero problems in social settings but you seem to have a lot, maybe its less to do with gender and a lot to do with personality!

OldNotWIse

Playboy wrote: »

You didn't call me on anything. Go back and read my original post. The point you claimed to have called me on is a point that I had already addressed in that post. You just hadn't bothered to read it properly. It's very evident to me why you get bad reactions from guys when you are out on about if you have this inflated sense of your own importance and attractiveness, you don't bother to listen to people and then you are aggressively dismissive. Changing your own behavior may change the how people respond to and interact with you.

Ok now I see your underlying agenda. It's women's fault that some men cannot take no for an answer. Do you also believe that women wearing provocative clothing are asking for it?

OldNotWIse

Playboy wrote: »

Where did we decide that? The thing is you dont know why someone is approaching you until they actually make it clear so usually its best to listen first before you make any assumptions



Lol... really so guys who are looking to approach a female now have to assess from a distance what the outcome will be before they actually speak to someone. Glad I'm not dating if this is the prevalent attitude of the day.




I speak to many people when I'm out and about both male and female and who are strangers. Have you never had a conversation with someone while waiting for a drink at a bar, when outside having a smoke, queuing to get in somewhere? I dont expect every person I speak to, to immediately assume that I'm trying to get in their knickers. Maybe people should try and be polite when speaking to someone else until it becomes clear that being polite isnt going to work. Responding aggressively immediately is only going to escalate the situation and likely produce remarks like "stuck up cnt".




Of course they are relevant because you are making an assumption that a person is coming on to you before they even open their mouth. Whether they are interested in you sexually or not there is a polite way to handle it. If you dont see this then it says a lot about you and your upbringing to be honest




You tying yourself up in knots here. All I said is that I'm in control of my own response. If someone approaches you aggressively or acting like a dck then you have to decide the most appropriate way to react. I would advise that responding aggressively to an aggressive approach is likely to escalate a situation.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Correction - YOU said nothing about entitlement, but your post actually reeks of entitlement, all about you and your rights and what you deserve, but nothing about what you owe the other person? [?QUOTE

Lol can i have whatever you are smoking? All I expect from any person who I approach politely is a polite response... if you think that reeks of entitlement then just lol!



I'm arguing nothing of the sort. People need to speak to each other. Its called civilization, if you want to be a hermit then go live in the woods where nobody can bother you.




Luckily I'm happily married for about 8 years so I dont have to worry about being told to fck off by socially inept egotistical women. When I was going to pubs and clubs I dont remember people being so rude or ignorant, maybe its a recent development? How about you climb down off your high horse, everyone who wants to speak to you doesn't likely think you are some prize to be wooed. I have zero problems in social settings but you seem to have a lot, maybe its less to do with gender and a lot to do with personality!

I think many people are.

Playboy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Ok now I see your underlying agenda. It's women's fault that some men cannot take no for an answer. Do you also believe that women wearing provocative clothing are asking for it?

Was waiting for it lol. Knew when I typed it that you would say victim blaming! Obvious where you are coming from! Someone says hello ergo you are a victim and can tell them to fck off! Just lol! Guys please, dont say hello to women, its assault!

Playboy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Playboy wrote: »

Where did we decide that? The thing is you dont know why someone is approaching you until they actually make it clear so usually its best to listen first before you make any assumptions



Lol... really so guys who are looking to approach a female now have to assess from a distance what the outcome will be before they actually speak to someone. Glad I'm not dating if this is the prevalent attitude of the day.




I speak to many people when I'm out and about both male and female and who are strangers. Have you never had a conversation with someone while waiting for a drink at a bar, when outside having a smoke, queuing to get in somewhere? I dont expect every person I speak to, to immediately assume that I'm trying to get in their knickers. Maybe people should try and be polite when speaking to someone else until it becomes clear that being polite isnt going to work. Responding aggressively immediately is only going to escalate the situation and likely produce remarks like "stuck up cnt".




Of course they are relevant because you are making an assumption that a person is coming on to you before they even open their mouth. Whether they are interested in you sexually or not there is a polite way to handle it. If you dont see this then it says a lot about you and your upbringing to be honest




You tying yourself up in knots here. All I said is that I'm in control of my own response. If someone approaches you aggressively or acting like a dck then you have to decide the most appropriate way to react. I would advise that responding aggressively to an aggressive approach is likely to escalate a situation.



I think many people are.

Nice editing skillz you have there! And yes most of all my wife!

OldNotWIse

I know I might will be accused of repeating myself but what other option is there when other posters insist on perpetuating lies. The last time I was approached in a bar by a guy (two actually) and no I wasn't "harrassed", I politely asked them to leave and was called the stuck up C. This is something that a lot of you guys seem to wilfully blind to. You are assuming that I looked down my nose at him or decided I was too good looking for him or was rude or snide - this is not the case (ok I get you wont believe that anyway since you "weren't there" to independently assess the situation - how convenient for you) but that is simply not true. So, since you seem to be so authoritarian on the whole "how to let 'em down easy" issue - what would you have suggested I do differently? What's a nice way to do it? Or is the truth actually that you think I was under an obligation to sit and talk?

genuine answers please - as much fun as it is hurling insults at each other I would really like to know how you think a woman (or guy) should deal with someone who is not taking the hint.

Or you could just, you know... keep up with the personal digs.

OldNotWIse

Playboy wrote: »

Nice editing skillz you have there! And yes most of all my wife!

Oh come on, if you have to resort to point scoring over how someone constructs a post..... zzzzzzzzzzzz

OldNotWIse

Playboy wrote: »

Was waiting for it lol. Knew when I typed it that you would say victim blaming! Obvious where you are coming from! Someone says hello ergo you are a victim and can tell them to fck off! Just lol! Guys please, dont say hello to women, its assault!

Dramatise much?

denhaagenite

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I know I might will be accused of repeating myself but what other option is there when other posters insist on perpetuating lies. The last time I was approached in a bar by a guy (two actually) and no I wasn't "harrassed", I politely asked them to leave and was called the stuck up C. This is something that a lot of you guys seem to wilfully blind to. You are assuming that I looked down my nose at him or decided I was too good looking for him or was rude or snide - this is not the case (ok I get you wont believe that anyway since you "weren't there" to independently assess the situation - how convenient for you) but that is simply not true. So, since you seem to be so authoritarian on the whole "how to let 'em down easy" issue - what would you have suggested I do differently? What's a nice way to do it? Or is the truth actually that you think I was under an obligation to sit and talk?

genuine answers please - as much fun as it is hurling insults at each other I would really like to know how you think a woman (or guy) should deal with someone who is not taking the hint.

Or you could just, you know... keep up with the personal digs.

I believe you, and that guy was horrible. He was definitely wrong, but it doesn't mean that you are justified in behaving in the same manner as that guy from now on whenever you feel like it, if a person approaching you is doing so in a polite way. There's no harm in saying "No thank you, I don't want a drink" or "Sorry but we're in the middle of something" but while you have the right to be rude to someone, I couldn't say it's justified under those circumstances.

Just to add though, I think they are right in general. I have witnessed many women being intentionally rude when rebuffing mens advances, however innocuous, on nights out etc in Ireland. It's just not necessary, and if your attitude is "I can behave as rudely as I like under any circumstances of being approached by someone and no one has a right to question it because it's their fault for approaching me in the first place" then I'm not surprised that the anecdotal evidence from some of the men here is that women can be pretty scathing for very little reason.

Playboy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Oh come on, if you have to resort to point scoring over how someone constructs a post..... zzzzzzzzzzzz

Haha wtf! That was a response to your post of which the only point was you saying lots of people are happy I'm not dating! Are you seriously pulling me up on my mild response to your insult!

OldNotWIse

denhaagenite wrote: »

I believe you, and that guy was horrible. He was definitely wrong, but it doesn't mean that you are justified in behaving in the same manner as that guy from now on whenever you feel like it, if a person approaching you is doing so in a polite way. There's no harm in saying "No thank you, I don't want a drink" or "Sorry but we're in the middle of something" but while you have the right to be rude to someone, I couldn't say it's justified under those circumstances.

Just to add though, I think they are right in general. I have witnessed many women being intentionally rude when rebuffing mens advances, however innocuous, on nights out etc in Ireland. It's just not necessary, and if your attitude is "I can behave as rudely as I like under any circumstances of being approached by someone and no one has a right to question it because it's their fault for approaching me in the first place" then I'm not surprised that the anecdotal evidence from some of the men here is that women can be pretty scathing for very little reason.

But that's not my intention. I don't believe I ever said that from now on I was going to be rude to anyone who approaches me I wasn't rude in my reply to him (though he certainly was in his reply to me! - which doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as the rudeness that people seem to think I engaged in).

I'm sure plenty of women are like that, and probably from years of having the same old reaction from men. I don't necessarily think they are justified. I too have a brother that is in his 30's and single and he cannot meet a girl because he gets shot down for offering to buy drinks etc or they just think he is an eejit I get annoyed thinking about him being ridiculed and rejected just for trying to be nice.

But, I alos have regard to the fact that I came on here and recounted a personal story that happened to me recently and pretty much all I've got is "well you must be rude" or "you must have an inflated view of yourself" and told of numerous times my GF and I have been hit on depsite the fact that these people know we are a couple and I am accused of exagerating and lying. My deduction based on this is that there is definitely an attitude problem - but it doesn't solely rest with women. I think both are to blame.

orubiru

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I know I might will be accused of repeating myself but what other option is there when other posters insist on perpetuating lies. The last time I was approached in a bar by a guy (two actually) and no I wasn't "harrassed", I politely asked them to leave and was called the stuck up C. This is something that a lot of you guys seem to wilfully blind to. You are assuming that I looked down my nose at him or decided I was too good looking for him or was rude or snide - this is not the case (ok I get you wont believe that anyway since you "weren't there" to independently assess the situation - how convenient for you) but that is simply not true. So, since you seem to be so authoritarian on the whole "how to let 'em down easy" issue - what would you have suggested I do differently? What's a nice way to do it? Or is the truth actually that you think I was under an obligation to sit and talk?

genuine answers please - as much fun as it is hurling insults at each other I would really like to know how you think a woman (or guy) should deal with someone who is not taking the hint.

Or you could just, you know... keep up with the personal digs.

Nah, those guys were out of order and I don't feel like there's any way you could have avoided the situation to be honest. If you sat and talked I can well imagine that you'd have been even more aggressively accused of wasting their time.

With some people you just can't win, they are just so confrontational. I'm not even sure that you'd be able to "educate" guys like that to behave appropriately. I generally that think if the guys came over and said "Hello" and the girls response was a straight "f*ck off" then any normal person would just think "OK, lets avoid confrontation here and back off".

Makes me wonder if people going to bars think that just because it's a bar everyone has to talk. I can imagine a lot of dudes seeing a lady by herself at the bar and thinking "well she's definitely here to meet men" so the rejection does seem kind of personal.

I bet that's one of the reasons why this kind of thing is even more common with online dating. People online are obviously there to meet someone so a rejection feels a bit more personal and so certain individuals turn nasty.

OldNotWIse

Playboy wrote: »

Haha wtf! That was a response to your post of which the only point was you saying lots of people are happy I'm not dating! Are you seriously pulling me up on my mild response to your insult!

Have a good weekend....and remember, no means no

OldNotWIse

orubiru wrote: »

Nah, those guys were out of order and I don't feel like there's any way you could have avoided the situation to be honest. If you sat and talked I can well imagine that you'd have been even more aggressively accused of wasting their time.

With some people you just can't win, they are just so confrontational. I'm not even sure that you'd be able to "educate" guys like that to behave appropriately. I generally that think if the guys came over and said "Hello" and the girls response was a straight "f*ck off" then any normal person would just think "OK, lets avoid confrontation here and back off".

Makes me wonder if people going to bars think that just because it's a bar everyone has to talk. I can imagine a lot of dudes seeing a lady by herself at the bar and thinking "well she's definitely here to meet men" so the rejection does seem kind of personal.

I bet that's one of the reasons why this kind of thing is even more common with online dating. People online are obviously there to meet someone so a rejection feels a bit more personal and so certain individuals turn nasty.

True enough.

Scarinae

Playboy wrote: »

In various social groups over the years I have had friends and acquaintances that were stunning in the looks department and some that were models. I never remember seeing them get harassed a lot in clubs or on the street and don't remember them complaining about.

I get hassled a lot, and it is usually when I'm by myself. It sometimes happens when I'm with female friends, and very occasionally when I am with male friends, but generally it is when I am alone. As for complaining about it, it happens so frequently that I don't tend to remark upon it to other people unless it was a particularly outrageous example.

Playboy wrote: »

The thing is you dont know why someone is approaching you until they actually make it clear so usually its best to listen first before you make any assumptions

One time a guy yelled at me "I WOULD LOVE TO STICK MY FACE BETWEEN THOSE TITS" - this was while I was walking home from work by the way, not at a nightclub. I don't think I was unreasonable to ignore him based on my assumptions about his intentions.

Mister Vain

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I know I might will be accused of repeating myself but what other option is there when other posters insist on perpetuating lies. The last time I was approached in a bar by a guy (two actually) and no I wasn't "harrassed", I politely asked them to leave and was called the stuck up C. This is something that a lot of you guys seem to wilfully blind to. You are assuming that I looked down my nose at him or decided I was too good looking for him or was rude or snide - this is not the case (ok I get you wont believe that anyway since you "weren't there" to independently assess the situation - how convenient for you) but that is simply not true. So, since you seem to be so authoritarian on the whole "how to let 'em down easy" issue - what would you have suggested I do differently? What's a nice way to do it? Or is the truth actually that you think I was under an obligation to sit and talk?

genuine answers please - as much fun as it is hurling insults at each other I would really like to know how you think a woman (or guy) should deal with someone who is not taking the hint.

Or you could just, you know... keep up with the personal digs.

So what were your exact words? Can you please leave? That sounds very condescending to me, much like a lot of your posts here. You're sarcastically mocking and sneering at other posters rather than trying to argue in a constructive manner.

To answer your question, a simple "Thanks but I'm just out with my mates tonight" would have sufficed.

Interstellar cellar

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But that's not my intention. I don't believe I ever said that from now on I was going to be rude to anyone who approaches me I wasn't rude in my reply to him (though he certainly was in his reply to me! - which doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as the rudeness that people seem to think I engaged in).

I'm sure plenty of women are like that, and probably from years of having the same old reaction from men. I don't necessarily think they are justified. I too have a brother that is in his 30's and single and he cannot meet a girl because he gets shot down for offering to buy drinks etc or they just think he is an eejit I get annoyed thinking about him being ridiculed and rejected just for trying to be nice.

But, I alos have regard to the fact that I came on here and recounted a personal story that happened to me recently and pretty much all I've got is "well you must be rude" or "you must have an inflated view of yourself" and told of numerous times my GF and I have been hit on depsite the fact that these people know we are a couple and I am accused of exagerating and lying. My deduction based on this is that there is definitely an attitude problem - but it doesn't solely rest with women. I think both are to blame.

If your brother is 30 and still opening by offering to buy drinks then I'm not surprised he's still signal. Women are attracted to men of higher status, offering to buy a drink sends the message that he thinks he has to pay for her time which sends the message that he is lower status.

If you politely reject men then they are in the wrong if they insult you in response. What do you say when you turn them down?

Playboy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But that's not my intention. I don't believe I ever said that from now on I was going to be rude to anyone who approaches me I wasn't rude in my reply to him (though he certainly was in his reply to me! - which doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as the rudeness that people seem to think I engaged in).

I'm sure plenty of women are like that, and probably from years of having the same old reaction from men. I don't necessarily think they are justified. I too have a brother that is in his 30's and single and he cannot meet a girl because he gets shot down for offering to buy drinks etc or they just think he is an eejit I get annoyed thinking about him being ridiculed and rejected just for trying to be nice.

But, I alos have regard to the fact that I came on here and recounted a personal story that happened to me recently and pretty much all I've got is "well you must be rude" or "you must have an inflated view of yourself" and told of numerous times my GF and I have been hit on depsite the fact that these people know we are a couple and I am accused of exagerating and lying. My deduction based on this is that there is definitely an attitude problem - but it doesn't solely rest with women. I think both are to blame.

Maybe we are talking over each other then as I'm empathising with your brother and im not for a second excusing the type of behaviour that you recounted. There are lots of agressive misogyinistic as*holes out there but I think they are the minority and not the norm. Unfortunately if videos like the one in question form part of a narrative that men excuse or engage in harassment regularly and the behaviour is normalised then women will react negatively to most men. I think these types of videos do more harm than good because the good guys like your brother get tarred with the same brush as the as*holes.

One eyed Jack

Playboy wrote: »

Where did we decide that? The thing is you dont know why someone is approaching you until they actually make it clear so usually its best to listen first before you make any assumptions

Continuing to play the "I'm only being polite and nice and you're being mean to me for nothing" nonsense. The thing is, I don't care why someone is approaching me if I don't want to be approached, so it's quite likely I just move on about my business and ignore them. Happens at least two or three times a day depending where I'm going. I actually have a fair idea when someone approaches me what they're looking for because I'm assessing them as they're coming towards me. They made the assumption before I did that I would talk to them. You're not listening at all when I've been over this at least five times in the thread already, because if you had read the thread, you'd see all the assumptions you're making here have already been covered.

Ain't nobody got time for that though, and by that same token you should understand that if I stopped up and regarded everyone on the street who ever says hello to me, I'd get nowhere and I'd get nothing done. I simply don't have time to be entertaining everyone who crosses my path. Under those circumstances, I don't consider ignoring someone I don't know as rude behaviour.

Lol... really so guys who are looking to approach a female now have to assess from a distance what the outcome will be before they actually speak to someone. Glad I'm not dating if this is the prevalent attitude of the day.

What? It's takes mere milliseconds after you notice someone to assess whether they're open to being approached or not. You're hardly being asked to write a thesis on their deportment as you approach, and because you're having to approach them, it stands to reason you're at a distance already.

I speak to many people when I'm out and about both male and female and who are strangers. Have you never had a conversation with someone while waiting for a drink at a bar, when outside having a smoke, queuing to get in somewhere? I dont expect every person I speak to, to immediately assume that I'm trying to get in their knickers. Maybe people should try and be polite when speaking to someone else until it becomes clear that being polite isnt going to work. Responding aggressively immediately is only going to escalate the situation and likely produce remarks like "stuck up cnt".

You're desperately trying to make it sound like I'm the one with the problem here. I'm not. Of course I talk to strangers on a daily basis, and then when I don't want to talk to strangers, I don't have to. I can usually tell what their motives are by their deportment as they approach. Take the simple example of those bible bashing types, or charity workers, it's pretty safe to assume what their intentions are, and I'll nip it in the bud because I don't have any time for them. That's not responding aggressively, but because they didn't pay any regard to my deportment, they assume I'm being an ignorant fcuk. Fair enough.

Of course they are relevant because you are making an assumption that a person is coming on to you before they even open their mouth. Whether they are interested in you sexually or not there is a polite way to handle it. If you dont see this then it says a lot about you and your upbringing to be honest

I'm basing that assumption on a lot more than just their deportment, I can also read their face, see the look in their eyes, these things take milliseconds, and have less to do with my upbringing and more to do with experience. I'm usually polite to anyone who approaches me, only sometimes I don't have time to be stopping up and chatting to every randomer that approaches me. Again, that's not me being rude.

You tying yourself up in knots here. All I said is that I'm in control of my own response. If someone approaches you aggressively or acting like a dck then you have to decide the most appropriate way to react. I would advise that responding aggressively to an aggressive approach is likely to escalate a situation.

That may be the only thing we agree on, so when someone is politely telling you they aren't interested, calling them a stuck up cnut is a risky strategy in itself that may well see someone ending up in A&E if they say it to the wrong person.

Lol can i have whatever you are smoking? All I expect from any person who I approach politely is a polite response... if you think that reeks of entitlement then just lol!

It does reek of entitlement. What are you not getting about the fact that a complete stranger to you owes you nothing? You can think you're approaching politely, but that doesn't mean the other person may see your approach the way you do!

I'm arguing nothing of the sort. People need to speak to each other. Its called civilization, if you want to be a hermit then go live in the woods where nobody can bother you.

You're the person making the approach. You're the person that needs to speak, the other person doesn't need to speak to you. If a beggar approaches me looking for the price of a sandwich or looking to sell me some gear, and I don't want to give them the price of a sandwich, stopping up to tell them that may not end well for me. Again you're just going to extremes with me while your motivations are totally innocent of course. If you want to talk to people, pay for a therapist.

Luckily I'm happily married for about 8 years so I dont have to worry about being told to fck off by socially inept egotistical women. When I was going to pubs and clubs I dont remember people being so rude or ignorant, maybe its a recent development? How about you climb down off your high horse, everyone who wants to speak to you doesn't likely think you are some prize to be wooed. I have zero problems in social settings but you seem to have a lot, maybe its less to do with gender and a lot to do with personality!

Why would you even want to talk to socially inept women, or can you not tell that they are socially inept before you approach them? I'm going to pubs and clubs probably as long as you are, and they haven't changed all that much really, except they don't play the easy squeezy slow set in the club nowadays.

I'm not on any high horse and I have no problems giving strangers the hint that I don't want to talk to them. Sometimes they have a problem with that and they try just like you're doing to say I'm the one with the problem (though admittedly they're not always so civil about it as you are), and I have no problems approaching strangers either, which is why those I have approached have always been civil to me.

Foxtrol

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But that's not my intention. I don't believe I ever said that from now on I was going to be rude to anyone who approaches me I wasn't rude in my reply to him (though he certainly was in his reply to me! - which doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as the rudeness that people seem to think I engaged in).

I'm sure plenty of women are like that, and probably from years of having the same old reaction from men. I don't necessarily think they are justified. I too have a brother that is in his 30's and single and he cannot meet a girl because he gets shot down for offering to buy drinks etc or they just think he is an eejit I get annoyed thinking about him being ridiculed and rejected just for trying to be nice.

But, I alos have regard to the fact that I came on here and recounted a personal story that happened to me recently and pretty much all I've got is "well you must be rude" or "you must have an inflated view of yourself" and told of numerous times my GF and I have been hit on depsite the fact that these people know we are a couple and I am accused of exagerating and lying. My deduction based on this is that there is definitely an attitude problem - but it doesn't solely rest with women. I think both are to blame.

There however seems to be a much greater refusal of women to call out other women about being rude. You've thanked posts by OEJ which openly state that she has and believes she can be as rude as she wants to a any guy who approaches her, even if it's politely.

There's continuous talk of men ignoring or excusing what other men do towards women but I actually think it's much more prevalent the other way around, this thread is a prime example of it.

If you're going to say that you don't agree with it, you should say that to women who claim that it's ok.

Interstellar cellar

A simple no thanks is all that is needed, it's not hard.

Foxtrol

Interstellar cellar wrote: »

A simple no thanks is all that is needed, it's not hard.

How dare you give advice to a woman about how to react when someone politely says hello to her.....

:rolleyes:

One eyed Jack

Foxtrol wrote: »

There however seems to be a much greater refusal of women to call out other women about being rude. You've thanked posts by OEJ which openly state that she has and believes she can be as rude as she wants to a any guy who approaches her, even if it's politely.

There's continuous talk of men ignoring or excusing what other men do towards women but I actually think it's much more prevalent the other way around, this thread is a prime example of it.

If you're going to say that you don't agree with it, you should say that to women who claim that it's ok.

Remember what I told you earlier about how you were reading too much into things and only seeing what you wanted to see?

It doesn't surprise me then that you completely missed this post -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Quality post secondrowgal, but, erm, I'm not sure how to tell you this...

Awkward :pac:







Seriously like, can you guys not actually understand that everyone has their own comfort levels and points where they experience discomfort? It's not rocket science, it's basic human interaction, and it's using your best judgment based on your reading the other person's body language.

There's no 100% foolproof answer to what is or isn't appropriate behaviour for every single individual in every single social situation, and that's why sometimes your intentions can be misinterpreted. It's not the other person's fault that you feel your intentions were misinterpreted. They're just doing the same as you - reading your body language, and that's why it's more important that you're aware of your own behaviour before you go shifting the responsibility for the misinterpretation onto the other person. Sometimes you'll get it wrong, it happens, I've often been mistaken for a gay man when I'm out on my own in a gay bar, so I can understand when a guy tries to chat me up. Usually all it takes is to tell him I'm not interested, but there are some guys who don't take the hint and try to push it.

The same thing happens with women - most of the time they take the hint the first time, but there are that minority that have questioned my sexuality because "You don't want this?", I'm not sure how to reply to that one because there's no nice way to say "No?" that you won't oftend somebody, but it's how they react after I say no that determines whether I'll feel guilty about it afterwards or not - calling me a stuck up cnut (that's a popular one! ), I'm not going to feel too guilty about having not reciprocated their intentions.

Mister Vain

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's takes mere milliseconds after you notice someone to assess whether they're open to being approached or not.

I've yet to acquire those Terminator scanning abilities. It takes me at least 3 full seconds. :pac: