More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

alastair

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Her politics are important because of her attitude towards the police. It might also go towards explaining why she is allowing herself to be used by those with an anti sinn fein agenda.

She was a senior member of a dissident group with ties to armed organizations which have carried out numerous attacks. You dont think this is relevant?

She was entirely open about her attitude to the police from the get-go. She was also open about her political beliefs, which were entirely congruous with SF, given that she was to the fore in that party - a party with, as I recall, had ties to an armed organization which carried out numerous attacks. Wasn't her rapist a member of said armed organization?

Cahill's issues don't stem from any political ideology, her political ideology was one shared amongst all the protagists involved, but of the cack-handed and harmful institutional response to her rape by the IRA,by SF, and by Adams - who bears the largest responsibility within that organisation. Cahill has been very precise in what she want's accountability for.

Dan_Solo

alastair wrote: »

Cahill's issues don't stem from any political ideology, her political ideology was one shared amongst all the protagists involved, but of the cack-handed and harmful institutional response to her rape by the IRA,by SF, and by Adams - who bears the largest responsibility within that organisation. Cahill has been very precise in what she want's accountability for.

Same question:
If Cahill doesn't recognise either AGS or PSNI and refused the IRA's offer to shoot the rapist, what exactly will satisfy Cahill's call for justice?

raymon

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Well heres one now.
You're still taking the word of Maria Cahill in regard to that meeting?
Even though it's now been pointed out to you the group she's allegedly involved with?
A group who's aim is to bring down the peace process and who doesn't recognise the PSNI or the Gardai as police forces.

Her political affiliation is not relevant to my two questions above. Regarding the specific meeting with Adams I believe she is telling the truth.i want to know what Personal issues Gerry claims to have discussed. Gerry has mentioned self harm in an early statement and then it disappeared from his further statements. His version doesn't add up.


Regarding the abusers that they moved south , Adams needs to pass the info on to the Gardai .

bajer101

Dan_Solo wrote: »

FFS, not this again.
"blaming the victim" is when you blame the victim for the crime. Nobody (except one guy I think) has done that. Again, she does not get a free pass on any and all actions for the rest of her life because she was raped.
The general public might not get the difference, but I really thought we were above this basic terminology warping.

Trying to discredit a rape victim or to accuse her of having an agenda is a suicidal policy and it is why you won't see any of the intelligent SF people even come close to that tactic.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I notice you couldn't answer the question. Here it is again:
What justice would satisfy Cahill?

I don't know, but this has moved way beyond that IMO.

Fr. Ned wrote: »

You're still working on the premise that everything Maria Cahill says is true.
It may not be.

She has been shown to be correct about nearly everything so far and she does make a very credible witness. There's not many people doubting what she says. But I believe that this is now not just about Mairia Cahill but about the wider issue of letting sex offenders loose in the South.

alastair

Dan_Solo wrote: »

FFS, not this again.
"blaming the victim" is when you blame the victim for the crime. Nobody (except one guy I think) has done that. Again, she does not get a free pass on any and all actions for the rest of her life because she was raped.
The general public might not get the difference, but I really thought we were above this basic terminology warping.

Cahill hasn't blamed anyone for her rape, other than the IRA member who raped her. That crime isn't her issue with Adams, SF, the police, or anyone else. The attempt to blame the victim is not for the crime, but for the subsequent failures and ill-considered acts that both caused her further trauma, stymied her case in court, and that applied to victims beyond her. There are clearly posters on this thread who wish to paint the culpable party in these matters as Cahill, and not the parties that, by everyone's admission, had 'failings' on those fronts.

alastair

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Same question:
If Cahill doesn't recognise either AGS or PSNI and refused the IRA's offer to shoot the rapist, what exactly will satisfy Cahill's call for justice?

Who said she doesn't recognise either police force? She clearly had enough faith in the UK justice system to invest years perusing her rapist through the courts. Murder isn't generally considered an appropriate, or just, response to a crime. No surprise there.

Banjo String

Godge wrote: »

Equally she may have joined a dissident republican group because she was a republican and she hated the way the SF/IRA machine treated her and let her abuser go free. I mean she could hardly join the DUP as a republican?

I really don't see the relevance except if in some way it is being used to smear her.

I've mostly stayed out of this whole story, because basically I know nothing about it.

But that comment right there.....

Wow, just wow tbh.

Fr. Ned

raymon wrote: »

Her political affiliation is not relevant to my two questions above. Regarding the specific meeting with Adams I believe she is telling the truth.i want to know what Personal issues Gerry claims to have discussed. Gerry has mentioned self harm in an early statement and then it disappeared from his further statements. His version doesn't add up.


Regarding the abusers that they moved south , Adams needs to pass the info on to the Gardai .

Fair enough, you're prepared to take the word of someone who has alleged links to dissident republicans over a democratically elected TD in our state.
That's your prerogative.

If Adams has this information he should definitely bring it to the Gardai. Agreed.

If Kenny, Martin and Robinson now have information supplied to them by Maria Cahill, I hope they do the same.

alastair

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Fair enough, you're prepared to take the word of someone who has alleged links to dissident republicans over a democratically elected TD in our state.
That's your prerogative.

Heh. Do I need to mention how lacking in self-awareness this is?

tomwaterford

raymon wrote: »

Her political affiliation is not relevant to my two questions above. Regarding the specific meeting with Adams I believe she is telling the truth.i want to know what Personal issues Gerry claims to have discussed. Gerry has mentioned self harm in an early statement and then it disappeared from his further statements. His version doesn't add up.


Regarding the abusers that they moved south , Adams needs to pass the info on to the Gardai .

As much as people would like to imagine it...Adams will never pass on working of the IRA...I believe your wan btw...and for all offenses IRA members faced it...this is one that should be brought to justice...it existed to protect it'd community it's where it's main support comes from

To try destroy this wans reputation is not a bit towards an Ireland of equal...though it does appear this will finally let that mcconville wan rest in peace

Fr. Ned

Banjo String wrote: »

I've mostly stayed out of this whole story, because basically I know nothing about it.

But that comment right there.....

Wow, just wow tbh.

The poster you quoted, who has over 400 posts on this subject attacking Sinn Fein in the last week, has gone very quiet since Maria Cahill's alleged links to disso's have been made public on this thread.

I've asked him the same question (does he now support alleged dissidents) twice and he's gone, no reply.......

You know in those old western movies, the deserted town and just the tumbleweed blowing through?
That's what this thread is like now, just the odd hater staggering out of the bar to throw up some bile before he heads back in for more.......

michael999999

Fr. Ned wrote: »

The poster you quoted, who has over 400 posts on this subject attacking Sinn Fein in the last week, has gone very quiet since Maria Cahill's alleged links to disso's have been made public on this thread.

I've asked him the same question (does he now support alleged dissidents) twice and he's gone, no reply.......


You know in those old western movies, the deserted town and just the tumbleweed blowing through?
That's what this thread is like now, just the odd hater staggering out of the bar to throw up some bile before he heads back in for more.......

I'm surprised the thread hasn't been locked yet.

Dan_Solo

michael999999 wrote: »

I'm surprised the thread hasn't been locked yet.

I think the lads are afraid to even look at this stage... has anything been modded so far?

Fr. Ned

Isn't it quite amazing how none of the media, RTE, TV3 all tax non dom's radio stations, regional and national newspapers etc etc never once thought to tell us of Maria Cahill's alleged dissident connections????

Absolutely amazing.

Seems the disso's are preferable to Sinn Fein in the distorted world of Irish medialand.....

bajer101

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Isn't it quite amazing how none of the media, RTE, TV3 all tax non dom's radio stations, regional and national newspapers etc etc never once thought to tell us of Maria Cahill's alleged dissident connections????

Absolutely amazing.

Seems the disso's are preferable to Sinn Fein in the distorted world of Irish medialand.....

The only amazing thing is that someone thinks that taking a pop at a rape victim is somehow beneficial to their cause.

Fr. Ned

bajer101 wrote: »

The only amazing thing is that someone thinks that taking a pop at a rape victim is somehow beneficial to their cause.

A man was arrested and went to trial because of her allegations.
What happened there?

bajer101

Fr. Ned wrote: »

A man was arrested and went to trial because of her allegations.
What happened there?

I don't know why you are quoting my post as it has nothing to do with your comment. But my understanding is that as a result of an internal IRA investigation the alleged rapist was expelled from the country.

Fr. Ned

bajer101 wrote: »

I don't know why you are quoting my post as it has nothing to do with your comment. But my understanding is that as a result of an internal IRA investigation the alleged rapist was expelled from the country.

Eh, you quoted me just above your comment....

Dan_Solo

bajer101 wrote: »

The only amazing thing is that someone thinks that taking a pop at a rape victim is somehow beneficial to their cause.

As beneficial as inviting a senior dissident republican who denies the legitimacy of An Garda Siochana into your office for photo ops?

raymon

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Fair enough, you're prepared to take the word of someone who has alleged links to dissident republicans over a democratically elected TD in our state.
That's your prerogative.

If Adams has this information he should definitely bring it to the Gardai. Agreed.

If Kenny, Martin and Robinson now have information supplied to them by Maria Cahill, I hope they do the same.

Ok great so we agree on one point that the names should be handed over.


Our positions may not be too far apart.


I can't believe that you really believe Gerrys account of his meeting with Mairia. Did you listen to the Richard Crowley interview from the 16th.

bajer101

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Eh, you quoted me just above your comment....

But your comment had nothing to do with my quoted comment!

Dan_Solo wrote: »

As beneficial as inviting a senior dissident republican who denies the legitimacy of An Garda Siochana into your office for photo ops?

Again, this is all irrelevant to the issues that have been raised. I am genuinely neutral in all this and can see Enda Kenny and Micheal Martin's actions for what they are. But that is all secondary to the issue that floating voters and new SF voters will only take one thing from this - rape victim treated badly and sex offenders let loose in the south. The optics are appalling and attempts to discredit the victim (unless she can be shown to be lying about the rape), will also come across as appalling.

As a neutral with Republican leaning tendencies, I have to reiterate that you are not doing anything to help convince the neutral voter. A neutral reading this thread would view your posts as the ramblings of cult members.

Fr. Ned

raymon wrote: »

Ok great so we agree on one point that the names should be handed over.


Our positions may not be too far apart.


I can't believe that you really believe Gerrys account of his meeting with Mairia. Did you listen to the Richard Crowley interview from the 16th.

I don't know who to believe to be honest.
Seemingly there were only the two of them at the meeting so it's his word against hers.
Now, it seems, that she has connections to a group of dissident republicans.
Dissident republicans who are totally against the Belfast agreement, don't recognise the PSNI or the Gardai in this part of the country and who state on their website that they 'deal with' drug dealers etc etc.

So, just take a step back and look at it again will you?

The word of a democratically elected TD in our country against someone who wants to tear apart the peace process Adams and others worked hard to put in place.
Whose word would you take?

Dan_Solo

bajer101 wrote: »

As a neutral with Republican leaning tendencies, I have to reiterate that you are not doing anything to help convince the neutral voter. A neutral reading this thread would view your posts as the ramblings of cult members.

And they would view yours as the bleatings of a dissident republican supporter and enemy of the peace process.
"a neutral reading"... we're back to "no true Scotsman" I see.

raymon

Fr. Ned wrote: »

I don't know who to believe to be honest.
Seemingly there were only the two of them at the meeting so it's his word against hers.
Now, it seems, that she has connections to a group of dissident republicans.
Dissident republicans who are totally against the Belfast agreement, don't recognise the PSNI or the Gardai in this part of the country and who state on their website that they 'deal with' drug dealers etc etc.

So, just take a step back and look at it again will you?

The word of a democratically elected TD in our country against someone who wants to tear apart the peace process Adams and others worked hard to put in place.
Whose word would you take?

I would definitely not take the word of Gerry. His interview with Crowley is completely implausible , bizarre and unbelievable.

Because the rape victim is part of a dissident republican faction is neither here nor there

R P McMurphy

bajer101 wrote: »

But your comment had nothing to do with my quoted comment!



Again, this is all irrelevant to the issues that have been raised. I am genuinely neutral in all this and can see Enda Kenny and Micheal Martin's actions for what they are. But that is all secondary to the issue that floating voters and new SF voters will only take one thing from this - rape victim treated badly and sex offenders let loose in the south. The optics are appalling and attempts to discredit the victim (unless she can be shown to be lying about the rape), will also come across as appalling.

As a neutral with Republican leaning tendencies, I have to reiterate that you are not doing anything to help convince the neutral voter. A neutral reading this thread would view your posts as the ramblings of cult members.

A neutral reader would have to say that if she is a dissident republican that she has played the DUP, FG and FF to perfection. It is clear that she is a highly intelligent and articulate person and if she has been wronged then I hope she finds adequate justice and healing.

Fr. Ned

raymon wrote: »

Because the rape victim is part of a dissident republican faction is neither here nor there

Well of course it is. It's at the very core of the question.

raymon

R P McMurphy wrote: »

A neutral reader would have to say that if she is a dissident republican that she has played the DUP, FG and FF to perfection. It is clear that she is a highly intelligent and articulate person and if she has been wronged then I hope she finds adequate justice and healing.

A neutral reader would have to say she is a rape victim surely first and foremost ?

Fr. Ned

R P McMurphy wrote: »

A neutral reader would have to say that if she is a dissident republican that she has played the DUP, FG and FF to perfection. It is clear that she is a highly intelligent and articulate person and if she has been wronged then I hope she finds adequate justice and healing.

She's played the Irish media well too.
The question should be asked as to who arranged all the interviews, meetings with TD's, taoiseach etc etc.
A certain female sindo journalist comes to mind......

Fr. Ned

raymon wrote: »

A neutral reader would have to say she is a rape victim surely first and foremost ?

She refused justice through the courts for her alleged rapist.

R P McMurphy

raymon wrote: »

A neutral reader would have to say she is a rape victim surely first and foremost ?

Yes of course and she should receive justice through the proper channels. Why has this not happened? Why did it get so close to trial and then collapse?