Official EPCR Champions Cup Preview Thread - A New Hope

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

The Toulon game was an interesting one. Everyone thought it was wrapped up at half time. It was 22-6 and there was really only 1 team looking like winning. Aer Lingus put up flights to Marseilles at half-time, such was the way the first half went. Obviously Toulon thought they had it wrapped up too and stepped off the gas completely allowing Wasps back into it. Wasps ran them fairly close in the end but it was still 25-13 with 10 minutes to go so I don't think Toulon felt troubled until the last 7 or 8 minutes of the game. In the end I think they were lucky to win it, but that all came from the dominant first half and the big gap at half time.

The big question is can we attack the way Wasps did? I don't think so personally. We've seen very little this season to suggest we have that in us.

No and I hope we don't try it either. Our strengths at this stage is our pack. Now they haven't been playing brilliantly either but there are guys there of serious quality and even playing poorly they beat up Bath there on Saturday.

My guess is we're going to try and drag Toulon into an arm wrestle and hope a few things go our way. Just like the last time we played them we chose our moments to attack but it was mostly just applying pressure on them and seeing what we could yield from it. As soon as the game got loose (i.e a dropped ball off the lineout) and Toulon would score. We'll have that fresh in our memory and I can see a lot of shooters being used to force Toulon to attack narrowly.

LostArt

Leinster

.ak wrote: »

No and I hope we don't try it either. Our strengths at this stage is our pack. Now they haven't been playing brilliantly either but there are guys there of serious quality and even playing poorly they beat up Bath there on Saturday.

My guess is we're going to try and drag Toulon into an arm wrestle and hope a few things go our way. Just like the last time we played them we chose our moments to attack but it was mostly just applying pressure on them and seeing what we could yield from it. As soon as the game got loose (i.e a dropped ball off the lineout) and Toulon would score. We'll have that fresh in our memory and I can see a lot of shooters being used to force Toulon to attack narrowly.

You'd have to hope we have learned lessons from last year and go with shooters and far less cross field kicks

.ak

LostArt wrote: »

You'd have to hope we have learned lessons from last year and go with shooters and far less cross field kicks

I'd hope for more of the same as last year. We defo have things to learn, but people often forget how close we were to seriously winning that game. We were a few knock ons away from racking up an early lead too. When Cullen came on we started to turn the screw and all the momentum was with us.

The issue was once the ball got loose or we turned off for a split second Toulon would punish us. Once that ball spilled off the top from the line out and Toulon ended up going down the field for 60m with Armitage and they ended up scoring a try we then seemed to concede the game mentally speaking.

I actually thought tactically speaking we played them quite well. We just badly lack a good outhalf to implement that sort of game plan.

Grandpa Hassan

bilston wrote: »

Please God may Clermont beat Sarries...I don't think I could watch European rugby ever again if Saracens win the Champions Cup.

I don't get this hatred of sarries. I'd rather see then win that one of the French teams

Rightwing

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I don't get this hatred of sarries. I'd rather see then win that one of the French teams

I wouldn't begrudge them either. In fact I'd be happy to see any of them win it. Toulon would confirm themselves as the greatest the competition has seen, Sarries and Clermont have been semi finalists 3 years running, and Leinster would join Toulouse on 4.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

I'd hope for more of the same as last year. We defo have things to learn, but people often forget how close we were to seriously winning that game. We were a few knock ons away from racking up an early lead too. When Cullen came on we started to turn the screw and all the momentum was with us.

The outhalf starting his first game for 8 weeks probably didn't help that.

Obviously I want Leinster to win. Outside of that, I'd far sooner see Saracens lift the trophy than Toulon again.

thomond2006

Leinster

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I don't get this hatred of sarries. I'd rather see then win that one of the French teams

Nigel Wray
Brendan Venter
The PA that drowned the Munster fans
The Wolfpack
Premier Rugby Limited
Mark McCafferty
The Fat Lady singing
BT Sport

yosser hughes

.ak wrote: »

I thought Healy deserved to be there. Very destructive in both the scrum and the loose.

I thought he loooked off the pace actually, which is understandable,Bath really had leinster running. He looked wrecked going off.

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

The outhalf starting his first game for 8 weeks probably didn't help that.

Obviously I want Leinster to win. Outside of that, I'd far sooner see Saracens lift the trophy than Toulon again.

Actually for me it was just silly mistakes from the experienced lads, BOD, Darce and Rob Kearney all made decent breaks but failed to get the final pass away IIRC.

.ak

yosser hughes wrote: »

I thought he loooked off the pace actually, which is understandable,Bath really had leinster running. He looked wrecked going off.

Just thought his carrying was unbelievable. Literally took 3 guys to take him down most carries, and he'd be making big yardage.

He also did manage one or two big hits in defence despite missing a load more.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nigel Wray
Brendan Venter
The PA that drowned the Munster fans
The Wolfpack
Premier Rugby Limited
Mark McCafferty
The Fat Lady singing
BT Sport

Aye, I'll be shouting for Clermont once again.

Sadly it looks a repeat of the 2013 final though... Which, whilst I'd love to see Clermont lift the trophy, I'd rather it was Leinster contesting it, just for the sake of something new.

For me, Toulon represents a possible death of the game as we know it and forces us to ask difficult questions. If they win 3 in a row you can't help but feel they've just bought 3 trophies. I'm not saying they don't play for each other, they clearly do, and it didn't happen over night either, but I just feel the fact that Toulon are playing so well and yet the national team is not is a sign of things to come.

So, in that sense, I want Leinster to beat them not only because I'm a Leinster fan but because I think it'll be good for rugby as a whole.

sydthebeat

Clermont

my particular recollection from last years game that was leinster were well and truely beaten up.
I didnt remember being excited at any stage that we had a chance of wining it, we had to expend so much energy in the first half making tackles that it eventually showed in the second half.

i think our team this year is patently weaker than last years

awec

Munster

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I don't get this hatred of sarries. I'd rather see then win that one of the French teams

I'd rather see anyone win it other than Saracens.

Hope Clermont stuff them again.

thomond2006

Leinster

Supporting Saracens deserves a forum ban. :pac:

molloyjh

Leinster

.ak wrote: »

Aye, I'll be shouting for Clermont once again.

Sadly it looks a repeat of the 2013 final though... Which, whilst I'd love to see Clermont lift the trophy, I'd rather it was Leinster contesting it, just for the sake of something new.

For me, Toulon represents a possible death of the game as we know it and forces us to ask difficult questions. If they win 3 in a row you can't help but feel they've just bought 3 trophies. I'm not saying they don't play for each other, they clearly do, and it didn't happen over night either, but I just feel the fact that Toulon are playing so well and yet the national team is not is a sign of things to come.

So, in that sense, I want Leinster to beat them not only because I'm a Leinster fan but because I think it'll be good for rugby as a whole.

Part of me thinks Toulon winning again would be better long term. Should Leinster beat them it becomes easy to write off the issue because a predominantly home grown team who are struggling will have beaten them. They can continue going back to that and say "look, the issue obviously isn't that we're buying our way to the top if that side beat us". If they win the trophy again this year it becomes all but impossible to deny that there is an issue there.

Not that I expect anyone to do anything about it. The English are now firmly engaged in this race to the top (because that always ends well!) and there will be no impetus to force change coming from a powerhouse. Sure we're now starting to pay majorly big bucks for talent so we're getting in on the act too.

Bridge93

The impact the returning players Toulon have can't be ignored

Halfpenny >> Armitage
Giteau >>>> Michilak
Habana >>> Tuisova

The backrow I don't even want to comprehend. Stunning at the weekend, they could throw Smith and Lobbe in if they feel like it.

thomond2006

Leinster

Bridge93 wrote: »

The impact the returning players Toulon have can't be ignored

Halfpenny >> Armitage
Giteau >>>> Michilak
Habana >>> Tuisova

The backrow I don't even want to comprehend. Stunning at the weekend, they could throw Smith and Lobbe in if they feel like it.

Delon is a better attacker than Halfpenny IMO. If I was picking I would have Delon at 15 with Halfpenny pushed to the wing. Habana has been a flop signing so far.

(I always chuckle when auto correct reverts to "Felon")

Bridge93

thomond2006 wrote: »

Delon is a better attacker than Halfpenny IMO. If I was picking I would have Delon at 15 with Halfpenny pushed to the wing. Habana has been a flop signing so far.

(I always chuckle when auto correct reverts to "Felon")

Tuisova is a disaster defensively albeit that may not be an issue the way Leinster attack.
Maybe it's because I hate him but I never rate Armitage (in relation to Halfpenny anyway.) it probably is my bias shining through.

Bridge93

Northampton

Bridge93 wrote: »

Tuisova is a disaster defensively albeit that may not be an issue the way Leinster attack.
Maybe it's because I hate him but I never rate Armitage (in relation to Halfpenny anyway.) it probably is my bias shining through.

Wasn't it him last year that kicked the 3 points from touch on the half way line after they mistakenly indicated kicking for a penalty?

It was at that point I knew for sure we weren't coming back into that game if ever you needed a sign.

vienne86

Leinster

thomond2006 wrote: »

Supporting Saracens deserves a forum ban. :pac:

Definitely, and you have given all the reasons to dislike them. Certainly I'll be shouting for Clermont.

ktulu123

Northampton

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nigel Wray
Brendan Venter
The PA that drowned the Munster fans
The Wolfpack
Premier Rugby Limited
Mark McCafferty
The Fat Lady singing
BT Sport

This also: STAND UP FOR THE SARACENS

Diabhal Beag

Ulster

I like their cute hats. Toulon offer little to satisfy the hat category.

Dave_The_Sheep

Leinster

.ak wrote: »

I'd rather it was Leinster contesting it, just for the sake of something new.

Two cases of 'something new' in the event of Leinster coming up against Clermont or Saracens in the final and both would occur:
- Leinster actually losing a HC final.
- Sarries or Clermont actually winning a HC final.

You're not wrong about the Toulon scenario. It's troubling and I can't see those who have an argument that money (for some) is a good thing in rugby being able to defend it.

There are admirable aspects to Toulon (and, loathe as I am to admit it, Saracens) but the money side of things tend to outweigh them.

I would like Leinster to beat both, but I can't see it happening, not with our coach.

.ak

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

- Leinster actually losing a HC final.

We've been trying for years but always fall short of the mark!

:pac:

total former

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Two cases of 'something new' in the event of Leinster coming up against Clermont or Saracens in the final and both would occur:
- Leinster actually losing a HC final.
- Sarries or Clermont actually winning a HC final.

Run this by me again Dave. A team that goes to the south of France and beats Toulon would be doomed to defeat in the next game? Makes sense...

.ak

total former wrote: »

Run this by me again Dave. A team that goes to the south of France and beats Toulon would be doomed to defeat in the next game? Makes sense...

No we're discussing the possibilities of 'something new' happening.

total former

.ak wrote: »

No we're discussing the possibilities of 'something new' happening.

Oh right. Dave's use of "and both would occur" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Leinster's prospects though.

Still, unlikely to be an issue in the first place.

aimee1

Sarries jacques berger cited for swinging arm on machenaud

ssaye2

ASM Clermont Auvergne
15. Nick Abendanon; 14. Noa Nakaitaci, 13. Jonathan Davies, 12. Wesley Fofana, 11. Naipolioni Nalaga; 10. Brock James, 9. Ludovic Radoslavjevic ; 1. Vincent Debaty, 2. Benjamin Kayser, 3. Davit Zirakashvili, 4. Jamie Cudmore, 5. Sébastien Vahaamahina, 6. Julien Bonnaire, 7. Julien Bardy, 8. Damien Chouly (c)
16. John Ulugia, 17. Raphael Chaume, 18. Clément Ric, 19. Julien Pierre, 20. Alexandre Lapandry, 21. Morgan Parra, 22. Camille Lopez, 23. Aurélien Rougerie


Saracens
15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Marcelo Bosch, 12. Brad Barritt (c), 11. Chris Wyles; 10. Charlie Hodgson, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Jamie George, 3. Petrus du Plessis, 4. George Kruis, 5. Jim Hamilton, 6. Maro Itoje, 7. Jacques Burger, 8. Billy Vunipola
16. Schalk Brits, 17. Rhys Gill, 18. James Johnston, 19. Kelly Brown, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Owen Farrell, 23. David Strettle

thomond2006

Leinster

Parra and Lopez back on the bench is huge for Clermont.