Official EPCR Champions Cup Preview Thread - A New Hope

former legend

Right, so we're a week away from the kick-off of the new and improved Heineken Cup European Professional Club Rugby Champions Cup. The TV deals are sealed, the awkward photo shoots are done and, erm, some of the fixtures have been announced.

Some of the dead wood of the Pro12 has been cleared out and we're now looking at a streamlined, super competitive tournament.
Say what you want about how we got to this point, but the number of juicy ties every weekend is pretty exciting. The dual TV coverage is a bit of a pain but it does at least mean every game will be covered live so reinforce the sofa cushions, stock up on beers and salty processed foods, it's European rugby time again!

Pool winners and the three best placed runners-up to proceed.

Pool 1:
ASM Clermont Auvergne
Munster
Sale Sharks
Saracens

Round 1:
Sale v Munster - Saturday 18/10/14, 1300 - Sky
Saracens v Clermont - Saturday 18/10/14, 1515 - BT

Round 2:
Munster v Saracens - Friday 24/10/14, 1945 - BT
Clermont v Sale - Sunday 26/10/14, 1515 - Sky

The first of the pools of death sees Munster faced with a very difficult pool. Last year's runners-up, Saracens, have got off to a great start in the Premiership and have a big enough squad to fight on two fronts. Towards the end of last season, Clermont looked to be a spent force but have started the Top 14 season like a train; they always targetted Europe but perhaps under a new coach, they might re-focus on the Top 14? Sale bring up the rear in this pool and could lose interest as the competition wears on.
This pool will be decided by narrow margins, probably depending on who fares best away from home. Munster could have an edge there in that opening their campaign away to Sale followed by hosting Saracens could see them with two wins on the board before the break for the internationals.
Given that Munster, Clermont and Saracens are likely to take points off each other, it's easy to think that this will be one of the pools from which only one team progresses.
FL's prediction: Saracens to progress thanks to their ability to grind out losing BPs.

Pool 2:
Castres Olympique
Harlequins
Leinster
London Wasps

Round 1:
Quins v Castres - Friday 17/10/14, 1945 - BT
Leinster v Wasps - Sunday 19/10/14, 1715 - BT

Round 2:
Castres v Leinster - Sunday 26/10/14, 1300 - Sky
Wasps v Quins - Sunday 26/10/14, 1715 - BT

A draw that most Leinster fans were initially happy with has been made to look even better now that all three opponents have got off to slow starts domestically. Castres have always been ambivalent towards Europe but will very likely be even more focussed on the Top 14 now that they languish in tenth spot. Wasps have hit the headlines for the wrong reasons in recent days so their eye may be taken off the ball too, while Quins have been up and down so far. The elephant in the room is, of course, Leinster's own stuttering start to the season; crippled by injuries and lacking any real cohesion, they may not be able to take full advantage of the kind draw.
An opener at home to Wasps, in the slightly bizarre Sunday evening time-slot, should help to settle their nerves before a tricky trip to Castres.
FL's prediction: Leinster's squad depth to carry them through, Quins to qualify as runner-up.

Pool 3:
Leicester
RC Toulon
Scarlets
Ulster

Round 1:
Leicester v Ulster - 18/10/14, 1945 - BT
Toulon v Scarlets - 19/10/14, 1515 - Sky

Round 2:
Ulster v Toulon - 25/10/14, 1300 - Sky
Scarlets v Leicester - 25/10/14, 1945 - BT

If Munster thought they got a bad draw... Leicester have been awful in the league but they always up their game for Europe, plus Brad Thorn has now arrived. Toulon are quite simply the best team in Europe, with an even stronger squad than last year, and the Scarlets can give anyone a game on their day. With the way the fixtures have fallen, Ulster's campaign could be over by the end of October; a Saturday lunchtime kickoff is not what they would have liked to welcome Toulon to Ravenhill
FL's prediction: Hard to see past Toulon dominating, everyone else to take points off one another and no runner-up to progress.

Pool 4:
Bath Rugby
Glasgow
Montpellier
Toulouse

Round 1:
Glasgow v Bath - 18/10/14, 1515 - BT
Toulouse v Montpellier - 19/10/14, 1300 - Sky

Round 2:
Bath v Toulouse - 25/10/14, 1515 - BT
Montpellier v Glasgow - 25/10/14, 1715 - Sky

An absolutely fascinating pool; Glasgow are the early pace-setters in the Pro12, Bath are second in the Premiership and Montpellier have impressed in the Top 14, while four-time European champions Toulouse have been awful and currently occupy 11th position in the Top 14. A lot will depend on the attitude of the French teams; Montpellier are nigh on invincible at home, will they bother to travel? Will the weakest Toulouse squad of recent times have any interest in Europe? Do Glasgow and Bath have the squad depths to compete in Europe and domestically?
FL's prediction; Haven't a rashers. I'd love to see Glasgow progress but their European pedigree is ropey and away wins will he hard to come by.

Pool 5:
Benetton Treviso
Northampton
Ospreys
Racing Metro 92

Round 1:
Racing v Saints - 18/10/14, 1815 - Sky
Ospreys v Treviso - 19/10/14, 1300 - Sky

Round 2:
Saints v Ospreys - 25/10/14, 1715 - Sky
Treviso v Racing - 26/10/14, 1715 - BT

A lot of this depends on how much Racing decide to target Europe. They are optimistic Jonny Sexton will be back and they look a much happier group of players this season; you still get the feeling that the Top 14 remains their priority though. Northampton sit atop the Premiership while the Ospreys are 5 from 5 in the Pro12 so there is no shortage of in-form teams in this pool. Treviso are yet to win, or even get a losing BP this season and will be dishing out bonus points like so many dolcetti.
FL's prediction: Two teams to progress, most likely Saints and Ospreys.

What are the odds?
Toulon, not surprisingly, are at 5/2 to win the trophy for the third year on the bounce. Somewhat more surprisingly, Leinster remain second favourites at 6/1, with Saints 7/1, Clermont and Saracens 8/1. Ulster and Munster are further back at 20/1.
The real value bet is Glasgow at 60/1, definitely worth a punt.

thomond2006

Leinster

Leinster and Toulon to progress. I can't call the other 3.

Like you FL I really hope Glasgow push on in Europe this year. They have to back up their league form sooner or later. I'd like to think Munster can progress if, as you say, they can win the first two matches. LBPs might only be needed away to Clermont and Saracens then, however they might require 9/10 points from the Sale matches.

I'm intrigued to see how the 5 + 3 qualification (as opposed to 6 + 2) changes the dynamic of pools. It should mean more teams aren't 'out' of the running early in the pool stages. Of course it means that the intricate permutations that have decided pools in previous years (tries scored etc) may not be as important.

Buer

Glasgow

I think Ulster might surprise people and top that pool. Toulon have an unimpressive record on the road in Europe and don't wake up until the latter stages. They've had two of the easiest pools in recent years and have still managed to lose to Cardiff last season and spluttered past Glasgow and Exeter by a single score. They were clinging on for dear life in Glasgow, I recall.

thomond2006

Leinster

The positive for Toulon is their easy start, at home to Scarlets. That's a likely five pointer. They can probably rest a few for that and then send the strongest side to Ulster.

WTO

Cheers for taking the time to write that. I rebaptise you current legend.

Leinster

ABT

irishbucsfan

Leinster

Deleted User wrote: »

ABT

Sarries?!

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

I think Ulster might surprise people and top that pool. Toulon have an unimpressive record on the road in Europe and don't wake up until the latter stages. They've had two of the easiest pools in recent years and have still managed to lose to Cardiff last season and spluttered past Glasgow and Exeter by a single score. They were clinging on for dear life in Glasgow, I recall.

Leicester are a bit wobbily at the moment so not a bad time to get the away game in against them.

molloyjh

Leinster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sarries?!

ABTOS?

Pudsy33

AN Other

No votes for Leinster

irishbucsfan

Leinster

molloyjh wrote: »

ABTOS?

ABTOSOCOMOSOCOHOWOLOSOUOBOGOMOTOTONOOOR?

bilston

Ulster

Regards the vote for the eventual winners I'm afraid I've gone for the team everyone loves to hate...Saracens... Obviously the knockouts can be hard to predict but it's hard to look past Saracens and Toulon at the moment, although Clermont are looking ominously good, or at least were until last weekend. If a team outside those three wins they will have done very well.

I'm not sure who will provide the strongest assault from Ireland. Leinster have the 'friendliest' pool so I guess you'd say they have the best chances of making the last 8 but I think all three of our ECC provinces are much of a muchness at the moment, although I don't really know where Ulster stand as we've been playing with one hand tied behind our backs so far this season due to a dubious selection policy.

It would also be nice for Glasgow to mount a decent challenge for once, the troubles facing Rangers and even to an extent Celtic provide an opportunity for rugby in Glasgow (albeit there are a few fans of those clubs who I wouldn't want anywhere near a rugby ground), it's very large city and should be capable of supporting a top European rugby team.

Anyway, having posted a lack of enthusiasm about the new rugby season a couple of weeks ago I'm beginning to get excited, as FL says whatever about how we got here, the one positive is the new slim lined competition which I personally think will be a step up, governance and the politics is another matter of course, but hopefully the rugby will be brillant.

vienne86

Leinster

After last weekend especially, that is understandable. I can't see Leinster winning any silverware this season, but I hope I'm proved wrong.

icdg

Fixtures for Rounds 3 & 4 out now:

Round 3:

6/12/14 17:30 Munster v ASM Clermont
6/12/14 19:45 Ulster v Scarlets
7/12/14 15:15 Harlequins v Leinster

Round 4:

13/12/14 19:45 Leinster v Harlequins
14/12/14 16:15 CET (15:15 GMT) ASM Clermont v Munster
14/12/14 17:15 Scarlets v Ulster

former legend

Leinster

Saturday night kick-off for Leinster v Quins so, 19.45 should give plenty of time for everyone to get tanked up the atmosphere to build.

Leinster

That's not a bad Sunday KO time for the day trippers.

icdg

European Challenge Cup fixtures not till Monday BTW.

Larbre34

Ulster

Both of the Leinster v Harlequins fixtures only on BT Sport. What a total and utter ******* con. I could concede after all the trouble that the PR teams got dibs for their home games to be on their preferred broadcaster, but for BT to shove in and get a Leinster game in Lansdowne is just b0ll0x. The Pro12 teams werent the ones with the problem here. We were fine with Sky to continue under ERC.

I'm not subscribing to another pay broadcaster for our home games, no longer give a **** if I miss them, we rolled over too far for that ******* PRL.

Winters

Larbre, how else do you think they can increase the TV revenue by 60%?

All three away games for the Irish provinces are on Sundays. Making it a bit difficult to get as many Irish fans over.

Larbre34

Ulster

Winters wrote: »

Larbre, how else do you think they can increase the TV revenue by 60%?

All three away games for the Irish provinces are on Sundays. Making it a bit difficult to get as many Irish fans over.

I'm not fussed about the fixtures taking place in England, that was expected.

BTs main interest and initial trouble causing deal was for PR games and Euro games involving PR clubs. That deal was already an increase in revenue coming into the game.

When it came time to hammer out the share arrangement with Sky, BT Sport should have been given no lean over the home games of Pro12 clubs. That should have been the compromise. The problem was not of our making. I couldnt give a monkeys how they go about making up the rest of their TV revenue after that.

The Pro12 clubs and its structure and its fanbase and its attendances are too precarious for the IRFU, WRU/RRW, FIR and SRU not to be looking after the interests of their supporters, and that means not p1ssing them off with more costs just to keep up.

thomond2006

Leinster

Should we rename this as the general competition thread?

Brive have made 13 changes for their trip to Gloucester. It looks like all the French sides in the Challenge Cup are naming second teams so no change there!

Brive: 15 Alfie Mafi, 14 Elia Radikedike, 13 Baptiste Delage, 12 Thomas Sanchou, 11 Guillaume Namy, 10 Riaan Swanepoel, 9 Nicolas Bezy,
8 Kieran Murphy, 7 Poutasi Luafutu, 6 Hugues Briatte, 5 Russlan Boukerou, 4 Peet Marais, 3 Damien Jourdain, 2 Louis Acosta, 1 Karlen Asieshvili.

Replacements: 16 Thomas Acquier, 17 Damien Lavergne, 18 Yusuf Tuncer, 19 Victor Lebas, 20 Fabien Sanconnie, 21 Damien Neveu, 22 Anderson Neisen, 23 Hugo Veyssiere.

Larbre34

Ulster

Probably best to have separate Champions Cup and Challenge Cup threads. Connacht fans will be following different permutations and with 40 odd clubs it might get confusing.

Big Nelly

Saracens

At the moment I can't see Leinster winning, just with injury portfolio at the moment and a lot of chopping and changing it seems a season to early. My opinion will be different next season mind you. I think it is a season that MOC needs to get the younger players up to speed on playing in Europe so they get the experience etc to make a push next season. I wasn't too sure they would get out of group as I thought Quins would be strong but they seem to be in a similar position to Leinster at the moment. With Castre having a mare at the moment in T14 I dont even see them bothering with this tournament and even thou Wasps are going great guns I can't see them beating any of the teams away.

So I think Leinster will sneak in Qtr's but don't think they will go much further.

Munster have horrible group and I think they will struggle to get out of it but then again it is Munster and they will fill Thomand for each game and big atmosphere so they could sneak it but will have to wait and see.....not having a pop at Munster or anything but I would love Clermont to win this season, just dont want to see Toulon win it and think Clermont are the best set up for it.....plus I hate Sarries :-)

Ulster I think are the best set up for this season from an Irish point of view, they have the least amount of injuries and have lots of experience. Leicester are in real bad place at the moment and could have there eyes on the Premiership as alot of UK pundits are saying they will struggle to make the play offs. So maybe they could catch them off guard and Ulster are well used to playing Leicester home and away....

Other groups, Glasgow are a strange one, will they really try in this competition? they nearly won the Rabo last year because they where out early from Heino and then could concentrate on Rabo. Both competitions have changed names now but will Glasgow try and go all guns for the Pro 12 and just see the EPCR as a bit of a bonus? I can see Toulouse coming out of this group

Northampton will win there group. Can't see Racing doing much to be honest

So thats my opinion....

molloyjh

Leinster

In some ways Toulon winning it again might force a few people to sit up and take notice of the way that money is dominating and ultimately harming the game. The English already have, but seem content to participate in a race to the top with the French rather than actually address the real issue of sustainability.

ssaye2

Pool Previews

1
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9515728,00.html

2
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9515678,00.html

3
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9515516,00.html

4
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9516366,00.html

5
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9516693,00.html

molloyjh

Leinster

ssaye2 wrote: »

Pool Previews

1
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9515728,00.html

2
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9515678,00.html

3
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9515516,00.html

4
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9516366,00.html

5
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_9516693,00.html

Cian Healy was apparently the one to watch when they first put those up on Monday. After a couple of people pointed it out on Twitter they quickly updated it. Really the one to watch for Leinster should be Ruddock at this stage.

former legend

Leinster

Toulon have added Nicholas Sanchez to their Euro squad in place of Michalak .

former legend

Leinster

Toulon's 24-man squad for their home game against Scarlets, no danger of them sending out a weakened team anyway.

Forwards (13) : CHIOCCI, MENINI, ORIOLI, GUIRADO, HAYMAN, CHILACHAVA, TAOFFIFENUA, BOTHA, WILLIAMS, MASOE, FERNANDEZ LOBBE, S.ARMITAGE, J.SMITH.

Backs (11) : CLAASSENS, TILLOUS BORDE, GITEAU, BASTAREAUD, WULF, D.SMITH, MERMOZ, O’CONNOR, D.ARMITAGE, HALFPENNY, HABANA.

It will be interesting to see who they pick in the back three, will Halfpenny get the nod over Delon?

Leinster

very loud team anyway! :pac:

Halfpenny's just had the one appearance hasn't he? (Loss v Toulouse). Has Delon done well?

Ridiculous squad

former legend

Leinster

Deleted User wrote: »

very loud team anyway! :pac:

Just goes to show you can't buy class.

Ridiculous squad

A selection of Toulon players not involved this week:
Martin Castrogiovanni, Fabien Barcella, Craig Burden, Mamuka Gorgodze, Jocelino Suta, Gerhard Vosloo, Freddie Michalak, Nicolas Sanchez, Drew Mitchell.

They really are taking the piss.

Winters

The BaaBaas may as well cease to exist

thomond2006

Leinster

former legend wrote: »

Just goes to show you can't buy class.



A selection of Toulon players not involved this week:
Martin Castrogiovanni, Fabien Barcella, Craig Burden, Mamuka Gorgodze, Jocelino Suta, Gerhard Vosloo, Freddie Michalak, Nicolas Sanchez, Drew Mitchell.

They really are taking the piss.

The French like their surnames in capitals!

Castro has been a poor signing. Barcella hasn't got a look in and will only be a squad player. I've no idea why they signed Vosloo, he was often injured at Clermont.

Winters

http://m.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2014/1016/652732-analysis-jackman-on-the-champions-cup/

Overview by Jackman

Winters

Leinster

Winters wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2014/1016/652732-analysis-jackman-on-the-champions-cup/

Overview by Jackman

Change the record Gerr...

Preamble basically spot on as usual from Birch

former legend

Leinster

http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/lineups.php

Castres have sent pretty much a full-strength team to Quins, 7 changes from the team that got absolutely hosed by Bordeaux last week so hopefully we'll have a good start to the new tournament.

irishbucsfan

Leinster

former legend wrote: »

http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/lineups.php

Castres have sent pretty much a full-strength team to Quins, 7 changes from the team that got absolutely hosed by Bordeaux last week so hopefully we'll have a good start to the new tournament.

That's actually quite surprising for Castres!

former legend

Leinster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's actually quite surprising for Castres!

Meh, whether they get the finger out of their collective arse and actually try is another matter.

Ideally a Quins win, no bonus points for anyone, and possibly a not-too-serious injury to Kockott and/or Tales that would require, oooh, two weeks' rest or so.

ssaye2

I havent checked the rules of the new comp but can both teams lose ? :pac:

former legend

Leinster

former legend wrote: »

Meh, whether they get the finger out of their collective arse and actually try is another matter.

Ideally a Quins win, no bonus points for anyone, and possibly a not-too-serious injury to Kockott and/or Tales that would require, oooh, two weeks' rest or so.

wouldn't a no-BP try draw be best?

matthew8

Leinster

Not the worst news. Sounds like a 4-0 Quins sort of game. Not sure what Castres are trying, if they keep this up they'll be the next Perpignan. Might be trying to find a bit of form.

former legend

Leinster

Deleted User wrote: »

wouldn't a no-BP try draw be best?

Well yeah, but chances are...

Winters

That is a very indigenous team from Quins. Well done Conor O'Shea.

sydneybound

Clermont have sold only 33 of their 2,000 entitlement for their game at Saracens.

Rightwing

sydneybound wrote: »

Clermont have sold only 33 of their 2,000 entitlement for their game at Saracens.

Will be interesting to see if there's the same interest in this competition, I've a feeling there may not be.

sydneybound

Rightwing wrote: »

Will be interesting to see if there's the same interest in this competition, I've a feeling there may not be.

To be fair to Scarcens their knocking out tickets for £25 which is great value. They should have over 8,000 at the game.

Just under 10,000 at the Thursday night Gloucester match tonight, with 0 away support for Brive. Which is decent going considering it's on sky sports 1.

sydneybound

Sale to have their biggest crowd since 2012 this weekend against Munster.

http://www.salesharks.com/news/2767.php#.VEAoe9m9Kc0

Encouraging stuff

former legend

Leinster

Jonny Sexton starts for Racing! Some good news from an injury perspective anyway.

Lee Halfpenny is in for Toulon, Delon Armitage out of the 23 completely.

ssaye2

http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/lineups.php

thomond2006

Leinster

former legend wrote: »

Jonny Sexton starts for Racing! Some good news from an injury perspective anyway.

Lee Halfpenny is in for Toulon, Delon Armitage out of the 23 completely.

Delon should get used to collecting splinters.

There's too many quality wingers for Halfpenny to be moved there to accommodate Armitage.

sydthebeat

Clermont

I'm enjoying the BT production so far, lively, a bit cartoony .... even if the chatting is a bit inane

sydthebeat

Clermont

I'm enjoying the BT production so far, lively, a bit cartoony .... even if the chatting is a bit inane