Three convicted murderers working in Belfast shopping center.

CaptainInsano

Roquentin wrote: »

imo they either get in prison for life or when they get released they are left alone. You are releasing them on the premise to integrate them back into society because they have served their time.

If these guys reoffend, you can blame the paper that reported them.

I have said it time and time again. The internet needs to be better regulated and the media needs to be better regulated. there is too much tabloid fodder in the media. There was the guy in austrailia who killed himself who the media printing his drunken night hotel carnage. that was utterly disgraceful by the papers.

and my advice to anyone in todays society: dont **** up in life, because if you do, the media will destroy you

I'm completely against the poorly written article but if they repeat offended you can't blame anyone but them. What kind of normal person would say 'Ah sh1t I lost my job, sure I may as well kill again.'' If they are that close to the edge that they need to be mammy'd by society in case they murder someone then they aren't rehabilitated at all.

Recondite49

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

They did the crime and paid the time. I'd rather they honestly work somewhere than not at all.

They're cutting keys ffs. It's not like they beat 100s of applicants to the role of mattress tester.

A man's got to eat.

Mr. CooL ICE

CaptainInsano wrote: »

It was blatantly obvious that was what he meant.

No. He said they didn't deserve to live a normal life without offering any alternatives. I, and others, were trying to drag it out of him.

His view on rehabilitation is completely linear and short-sighted. Rehabilitation of criminals and reintegration them to society is what an enlightened society endeavours. I like to think that both ourselves and our neighbours think better than just locking them up and throwing away the key without consideration for any alternative.

gordongekko

More than 3 crooks working in the dail and nobody seems fussed

Recondite49

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

No. He said they didn't deserve to live a normal life without offering any alternatives. I, and others, were trying to drag it out of him.

His view on rehabilitation is completely linear and short-sighted. Rehabilitation of criminals and reintegration them to society is what an enlightened society endeavours. I like to think that both ourselves and our neighbours think better than just locking them up and throwing away the key without consideration for any alternative.

You have to reflect on the irony that as their new occupation they were working cutting keys. Still, they did their time, they've got to eat - is anyone saying they'd rather they were on the dole or wasting taxpayer's money by still being in prison?

osarusan

Laois6556 wrote: »

Obviously neither.

your arguments are agony to read.

We get it, you wish they would rot in prison for life, or even better, be executed.

But that is not going to happen. You know it. They are out now, and there's nothing you can do about it.

The question is, now that they are out, what do you want to happen next?

do you want them to try and get some kind of job and leave some kind of normal life? Or are you happy for newspapers to harass them, 'out' them, and make it much less likely that they can get any kind of employment?

Laois6556

Nodin wrote: »

No, they're not constructive, useful or anything else.

Well we have something in common then.

Nodin wrote: »

That's irrelevant, because they are out in the real world now.

So no one can comment on lenient sentences then when people are released.

Nodin wrote: »

But they are no longer in custody, will not be subjected to the revenge fantasy of your choice, and society has to cope with them and others in the best manner possible. You and those wrote that article aren't helping.

No, now they're out and have an opportunity to kill someone else. Maybe they wont but they have a choice over things unlike their victims.

CaptainInsano

Recondite49 wrote: »

You have to reflect on the irony that as their new occupation they were working cutting keys. Still, they did their time, they've got to eat - is anyone saying they'd rather they were on the dole or wasting taxpayer's money by still being in prison?

I'm sure the victims families would rather they were in prison still. Let's not forget the impact on them here. They are the most important people of the whole story.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

No. He said they didn't deserve to live a normal life without offering any alternatives. I, and others, were trying to drag it out of him.

His view on rehabilitation is completely linear and short-sighted. Rehabilitation of criminals and reintegration them to society is what an enlightened society endeavours. I like to think that both ourselves and our neighbours think better than just locking them up and throwing away the key without consideration for any alternative.

You knew what I was talking about.

We're going round in circles with the second point. Kinda like the whole thread.

Billy86

Laois6556 wrote: »

No, you asked what I'd hope would happen to them. I hope they live unhappy, short lives.

And I hope to get home to find my bed stuffed to the brim with million Euro notes that Kate Upton and Mila Kubik and waiting for me on top of. But then I realise that not realistic, just like your hopes for them to willingly starve themselves to death rather than get a job, claim the dole or revert back to crime. Because those are the only real three options.

Laois6556

osarusan wrote: »

your arguments are agony to read.

We get it, you wish they would rot in prison for life, or even better, be executed.

But that is not going to happen. You know it. They are out now, and there's nothing you can do about it.

The question is, now that they are out, what do you want to happen next?

do you want them to try and get some kind of job and leave some kind of normal life? Or are you happy for newspapers to harass them, 'out' them, and make it much less likely that they can get any kind of employment?

I know I'm repeating myself but I was asked what my view was, I answered and then I was asked follow up questions.

Neither of those 2 options are great but the second one is preferable to the first.

Nodin

Laois6556 wrote: »

You knew what I was talking about.

We're going round in circles with the second point. Kinda like the whole thread.

That's because other than moan, you can't offer a realistic solution.

Laois6556

CaptainInsano wrote: »

I'm sure the victims families would rather they were in prison still. Let's not forget the impact on them here. They are the most important people of the whole story.

Exactly, for some reason there seems to be far more anger directed at the scummy journalists than to the 3 cold blooded murderers.

Laois6556

Billy86 wrote: »

And I hope to get home to find my bed stuffed to the brim with million Euro notes that Kate Upton and Mila Kubik and waiting for me on top of. But then I realise that not realistic, just like your hopes for them to willingly starve themselves to death rather than get a job, claim the dole or revert back to crime. Because those are the only real three options.

You asked what I'd hope would happen to them.

CaptainInsano

Billy86 wrote: »

And I hope to get home to find my bed stuffed to the brim with million Euro notes that Kate Upton and Mila Kubik and waiting for me on top of. But then I realise that not realistic, just like your hopes for them to willingly starve themselves to death rather than get a job, claim the dole or revert back to crime. Because those are the only real three options.

How is reverting back to crime an option?
''Well it's either go on the dole or murder someone again.''
Pretty sure I know which one a properly rehabilitated person would pick.
I had to go on the dole once, killing someone didn't even enter my head!
Weird how it works.

Laois6556

Nodin wrote: »

That's because other than moan, you can't offer a realistic solution.

That's because the opportunity to take the most preferable solution has passed, now we're left with very poor options.

Roquentin

CaptainInsano wrote: »

I'm completely against the poorly written article but if they repeat offended you can't blame anyone but them. What kind of normal person would say 'Ah sh1t I lost my job, sure I may as well kill again.'' If they are that close to the edge that they need to be mammy'd by society in case they murder someone then they aren't rehabilitated at all.

anger is a strong motivator. These lads had a job and are now without one. This brews reptilians of the mind through anger and boredom and they go out and commit again.

imagine if you had just taken out a mortgage and the boss tells you that you are being made redundant. Your response psychologically will be either one of three things: You fall into depression or you get angry and blame others or rarely, you become catatonic.

The people who are beaten by the system either beat themselves or beat back. I am telling you now, there is now a higher chance of these guys commiting crime again because of what has happened and if you unwind the dominos back, it started with the paper.

Sure you could throw up sartre and man must choose and he is responsible for his actions and that is true. But the majority of this society lives on emotion and they live without thinking. The world acts and the people react. Thats why the jails are full, lawyers earn millions and the cops have jobs.

CaptainInsano

Nodin wrote: »

That's because other than moan, you can't offer a realistic solution.

Humans can be unhappy and moan without offering a solution. I mean, you wouldn't be terribly happy if 3 murderers started working in your local shop?
Unfortunately I do agree that once they are let out we have to grin and bare it, but I'd rather they weren't around, just the feelings I have.

Roquentin

CaptainInsano wrote: »

How is reverting back to crime an option?
''Well it's either go on the dole or murder someone again.''
Pretty sure I know which one a properly rehabilitated person would pick.
I had to go on the dole once, killing someone didn't even enter my head!
Weird how it works.

hold on a second. the criminals of this world are not insane people or from another city. they are friends, brothers, cousins, they are normal people. crime is usually a response to boredom or anger. The criminals have nothing to do or life has beaten them down and they beat back.

The guys had a job and now no longer have one. What they do next will be interesting.

Johnny D. Mudd

I'm actually amazed that I'm about to type this about the type of people who make me sick to my stomach but that type of journalism is shady to say the least. The crimes committed by these guys were disgusting beyond believe but, despite the life sentence handed down to them quite rightfully, the court deemed it reasonable to release them back into society. No matter how we feel on the matter, that is what has happened and they are now being put in a position where they may serve some use to normal citizens and actually have a limited opportunity to earn a small wage. This also smacks of desperate hyperbolic story-chasing from a paper that obviously has nothing else to print and is looking for a reaction from the normal public. Like I said, it's a disgusting lack of journalistic integrity that pervades this entire story.

CaptainInsano

Roquentin wrote: »

anger is a strong motivator. These lads had a job and are now without one. This brews reptilians of the mind through anger and boredom and they go out and commit again.

imagine if you had just taken out a mortgage and the boss tells you that you are being made redundant. Your response psychologically will be either one of three things: You fall into depression or you get angry and blame others or rarely, you become catatonic.

The people who are beaten by the system either beat themselves or beat back. I am telling you now, there is now a higher chance of these guys commiting crime again because of what has happened and if you unwind the dominos back, it started with the paper.

Sure you could throw up sartre and man must choose and he is responsible for his actions and that is true. But the majority of this society lives on emotion and they live without thinking. The world acts and the people react. Thats why the jails are full, lawyers earn millions and the cops have jobs.

I get what you're saying, but like I said earlier, if they commit crimes again then it only means that they were not ready to leave prison. People get sacked all the time, humiliated in papers, viral videos, etc etc. It's when your reaction is to commit crime, rather than to try again and move on, then there's a problem. I do agree the paper was counter productive, but it is a chance for them to show their true characters.

CaptainInsano

Roquentin wrote: »

hold on a second. the criminals of this world are not insane people or from another city. they are friends, brothers, cousins, they are normal people. crime is usually a response to boredom or anger. The criminals have nothing to do or life has beaten them down and they beat back.

The guys had a job and now no longer have one. What they do next will be interesting.

Murderers, pedophiles and rapists are not normal people.
Are you seriously saying people commit crimes of this level out of boredom or anger? I go for a walk or watch TV when I'm bored. They commit these crimes because they are not right in the head.

punisher5112

I am shocked seriously shocked.

These guys destroyed peoples lives, families lives, friends lives and are pure pure evil.

I am sickened with comments like they done their time and sure they are working.

Would you want these evil basta*ds cutting your house key and maybe even making an extra copy for your house.

Why on gods earth would they be ever let out is beyond me.

Ireland and the UK have gone pc mad and all about human rights and rights for the thugs that are brought up to do no different then their parents or even worse.


Al I will say before I am banned for life is R.I.P to all their victims and may they rest in peace once they serve some terror on these scum bags lives.

How could any human actually stand up for these wow I am sick.

I am sick with our justice system and the UK's


Shame on them and anyone who stands up for them.

Billy86

Laois6556 wrote: »

You asked what I'd hope would happen to them.

Yes, once they were released from prison. Because their being released from prison does not have any relevance to this story - that being their firings on the basis of something deplorable they had done years before which their employees were aware of already for at least one of them. You have yet to give any solution there, if you want to discuss murderers and the death penalty or imprisonment until death, or other hypotheticals, feel free to start a different thread over it.

CaptainInsano wrote: »

How is reverting back to crime an option?
''Well it's either go on the dole or murder someone again.''
Pretty sure I know which one a properly rehabilitated person would pick.
I had to go on the dole once, killing someone didn't even enter my head!
Weird how it works.

If someone cannot work, they go on the dole. If someone cannot claim the dole (as some have been advocating) or get a job, how do you propose they support themselves for food and shelter?

Hitchens

the strange aspect to it is how did the three of them end up in the same place of work?

bucketybuck

punisher5112 wrote: »

I am shocked seriously shocked.

These guys destroyed peoples lives, families lives, friends lives and are pure pure evil.

I am sickened with comments like they done their time and sure they are working.

Would you want these evil basta*ds cutting your house key and maybe even making an extra copy for your house.

Why on gods earth would they be ever let out is beyond me.

Ireland and the UK have gone pc mad and all about human rights and rights for the thugs that are brought up to do no different then their parents or even worse.


Al I will say before I am banned for life is R.I.P to all their victims and may they rest in peace once they serve some terror on these scum bags lives.

How could any human actually stand up for these wow I am sick.

I am sick with our justice system and the UK's


Shame on them and anyone who stands up for them.

You're just like the other lad, so blinded by your incoherent rage that you can't see past it to the types of issues that in the real world society has to deal with.

There are people walking the streets today that committed crimes, thats a simple fact that you will have to come to terms with. Not a single person has tried to defend these people for their crimes, but there is a discussion to be had about what happens next. Frothing at the mouth about whether the criminal of the day should have been hung drawn and quartered contributes to that discussion not at all.

bucketybuck

Hitchens wrote: »

the strange aspect to it is how did the three of them end up in the same place of work?

The employer is involved with outreach programs to try and help ex-convicts rehabilitate into society. I suspect these men couldn't get jobs elsewhere, a company like this was probably their only chance to try and work for a living. Its no surprise actually that the three ended up there, where else would guys like that end up?

Don't forget that for two of them it was only a work experience thing, not a full time job.

Laois6556

bucketybuck wrote: »

You're just like the other lad, so blinded by your incoherent rage that you can't see past it to the types of issues that in the real world society has to deal with.

There are people walking the streets today that committed crimes, thats a simple fact that you will have to come to terms with. Not a single person has tried to defend these people for their crimes, but there is a discussion to be had about what happens next. Frothing at the mouth about whether the criminal of the day should have been hung drawn and quartered contributes to that discussion not at all.

At the end of the day you're defending the rights of murderers, that's the fact of the matter.

punisher5112

bucketybuck wrote: »

You're just like the other lad, so blinded by your incoherent rage that you can't see past it to the types of issues that in the real world society has to deal with.

There are people walking the streets today that committed crimes, thats a simple fact that you will have to come to terms with. Not a single person has tried to defend these people for their crimes, but there is a discussion to be had about what happens next. Frothing at the mouth about whether the criminal of the day should have been hung drawn and quartered contributes to that discussion not at all.

Really.
Seriously.

You know what I am thinking and can't discuss my opinion?

These people for what they done should not be out.
They needed help I will agree to that and need help for the rest of their lives but I hope they are short because I can't understand how they can be let out for what they done.

What happens some day they may snap and yes the defence is they may not but I would not like to be near to know or be the victim or someone in my family.

I am sick not angry and actually very upset with how society has gone.

Billy86

punisher5112 wrote: »

Would you want these evil basta*ds cutting your house key and maybe even making an extra copy for your house.

Why do you give out your address when getting keys cut? That's really odd.

Why on gods earth would they be ever let out is beyond me.

Fair enough, so make a thread about it.

Al I will say before I am banned for life is R.I.P to all their victims and may they rest in peace once they serve some terror on these scum bags lives.

And give the victim/martyr role a rest.