Three convicted murderers working in Belfast shopping center.

suicide_circus

Fcuking gutter journalism

I suppose there's two sides to how I feel about it.

If someone consciously decided that, having paid their debt to society according to the sentences handed down at their conviction, they deserve a chance to become productive and self sufficient members of society, I applaud their bravery and fully support them. I think it's an honourable thing to do and that the paper who 'exposed' men working for a living and losing them their jobs is a disgusting rag.

At the same time, I wouldn't be sending my granny in there to get a copy of her door keys made in case she struck someone as an easy, vulnerable target.

Laois6556

tritium wrote: »

Where do you draw the one on that so. Is the same true for rapists? Someone who commits GBH? Burglars? At what level should guilt overwhelm us? And what should they do about it? Surely trying to live e a decent life and contribute to society isn't a bad start?

Murderers and rapists. They don't deserve to live a decent life.

Laois6556

tritium wrote: »

You're entitled to that view. Society seems to disagree however

And society is worse off for it.

Mal-Adjusted

Laois6556 wrote: »

And society is worse off for it.

In your opinion.

Riddle me this, as another poster asked, what do you expect these lads to do once they get released? try to find a job or look for the dole/rent allowance?
What harm is there with them making an honest living and paying their way in employment?

Laois6556

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

In your opinion.

Riddle me this, as another poster asked, what do you expect these lads to do once they get released? try to find a job or look for the dole/rent allowance?
What harm is there with them making an honest living and paying their way in employment?

You're missing my point. It's my opinion that they shouldn't be in a position to get a job or go on the dole.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

You're missing my point. It's my opinion that they shouldn't be in a position to get a job or go on the dole.

I think a lot of us are missing your point, cos we don't know what your point is.

They can't get a job and they can't get the dole. What should they do?

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

I think a lot of us are missing your point, cos we don't know what your point is.

They can't get a job and they can't get the dole. What should they do?

I think it's pretty obvious what my point is. The punishment for these fellas was far too lenient.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

I think it's pretty obvious what my point is. The punishment for these fellas was far too lenient.

Please be specific. You're being far too vague. You are just saying they don't deserve a decent life.

What are you suggesting? Life in prison? The death sentence? Eternal slavery at the service of their victim's families?

cloud493

Whats the point of letting them out, or even trying to rehabilitate them, if they're let out of prison to do... what? Go back to terrorism?

Rubberchikken

If they've done their time aren't they entitled to be allowed get on with their lives.
Tabloids have nothing bettet to do than print stories that appeal to a particular breed of person

bucketybuck

Laois6556 wrote: »

I don't get this whole reformed character thing. These people killed people, real vicious murders. Do people think that they can go through rehabilitation and re-enter society as normal?
Think about it. If they have can now see how evil their acts were, how sick and twisted they were and see how much pain and suffering they caused then how can they live with themselves? If we're to believe they are now decent, normal human beings then surely the guilt would be too much.

Thats nice. Put me down as another that wonders what your alternative would be. Torture chamber for the rest of their life? Execution for all crimes?

I am no bleeding heart liberal, and I have no desire to advocate for murderers but what do you do in cases like this? I kinda want my murderers to get rehabilitated, to get up and do a decent days work and start to repay society. Newsflash everybody, there are currently thousands of convicted criminals currently working away, day after day in some job or another, what exactly did you think happened to the majority of ex-cons?

Its easy to kneejerk and feel revulsion at the murdering scum, but this story is not the way to do things.

Mal-Adjusted

Laois6556 wrote: »

You're missing my point. It's my opinion that they shouldn't be in a position to get a job or go on the dole.

your hypothetical opinion is about as useful as a fart against the wind. they are in a position to get a job or take the dole (at least until they were hounded out of their jobs by whichever paper it was)

Can you please clearly state your position in the matter is, and then maybe answer my question.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Please be specific. You're being far too vague. You are just saying they don't deserve a decent life.

What are you suggesting? Life in prison? The death sentence? Eternal slavery at the service of their victim's families?

I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.

Laois6556

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats nice. Put me down as another that wonders what your alternative would be. Torture chamber for the rest of their life? Execution for all crimes?

I am no bleeding heart liberal, and I have no desire to advocate for murderers but what do you do in cases like this? I kinda want my murderers to get rehabilitated, to get up and do a decent days work and start to repay society. Newsflash everybody, there are currently thousands of convicted criminals currently working away, day after day in some job or another, what exactly did you think happened to the majority of ex-cons?

Its easy to kneejerk and feel revulsion at the murdering scum, but this story is not the way to do things.

That's what I was asking. Think what sort of people these were to have killed people in the vicious way that they did. How can sick people such as these fellas become decent human beings without having a huge sense of guilt about their actions?

Laois6556

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

your hypothetical opinion is about as useful as a fart against the wind. they are in a position to get a job or take the dole (at least until they were hounded out of their jobs by whichever paper it was)

Can you please clearly state your position in the matter is, and then maybe answer my question.

I'm allowed to have an opinion, I hope these fellas never live in peace.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.

Thanks for your explanation.

Laois6556 wrote: »

That's what I was asking. Think what sort of people these were to have killed people in the vicious way that they did. How can sick people such as these fellas become decent human beings without having a huge sense of guilt about their actions?

Are you assuming nobody can be rehabilitated?

bucketybuck

Laois6556 wrote: »

How can sick people such as these fellas become decent human beings without having a huge sense of guilt about their actions?

Well, you know what would help? Getting a job and working hard day after day to get some perspective on the value of society and your place within it.

But I guess thats off the table now.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Thanks for your explanation.



Are you assuming nobody can be rehabilitated?

Look, you and me are not vicious murderers. I'm just a normal enough fella and you're a half decent actor. It's hard for us to know what it's like to be a killer. What they were like when they killed, what was going on in their heads etc.
What we do know is what normal, decent people think, cause we are normal, decent people. We're supposed to believe that these 3 now have similar standards to us.
If that's true and they are no longer sick, hideous people and they now know what they did was evil and wrong then how can they just get on with their lives?
I know if I killed someone, even by accident there's no way I could get over the guilt. I can't imagine what it'd be like to actually murder someone, be thought how wrong it was and then carry on as normal.

Laois6556

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well, you know what would help? Getting a job and working hard day after day to get some perspective on the value of society and your place within it.

But I guess thats off the table now.

What has that got to do with what I stated?

cloud493

Surely thats part of the punishment? Having to live with what you did.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

If that's true and they are no longer sick, hideous people and they now know what they did was evil and wrong then how can they just get on with their lives?
I know if I killed someone, even by accident there's no way I could get over the guilt. I can't imagine what it'd be like to actually murder someone, be thought how wrong it was and then carry on as normal.

Well that's for them to live with. It doesn't matter if they have the same level of empathy as you, they just have to get on with their lives.

Exposing them in a newspaper as convicted criminals trying to live normal lives doesn't achieve anything except sell papers and/or ad revenue.

Laois6556

cloud493 wrote: »

Surely thats part of the punishment? Having to live with what you did.

How is that punishment? So someone murders someone but regrets it straight away, well that's enough punishment for them then. No need for anything else the guilt is enough.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Well that's for them to live with. It doesn't matter if they have the same level of empathy as you, they just have to get on with their lives.

Exposing them in a newspaper as convicted criminals trying to live normal lives doesn't achieve anything except sell papers and/or ad revenue.

There's a lot of scummy journalists but I really don't mind what they've done in this instance. These killers don't deserve to live normal lives.

Nodin

Laois6556 wrote: »

There's a lot of scummy journalists but I really don't mind what they've done in this instance. These killers don't deserve to live normal lives.

.....a short sighted and rather self defeating attitude.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

How is that punishment? So someone murders someone but regrets it straight away, well that's enough punishment for them then. No need for anything else the guilt is enough.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that.

Whether their sentences were sufficient or not is a debate for another day.

Laois6556 wrote: »

There's a lot of scummy journalists but I really don't mind what they've done in this instance. These killers don't deserve to live normal lives.

Back to this again...

Laois6556

Laois6556 wrote: »

How is that punishment? So someone murders someone but regrets it straight away, well that's enough punishment for them then. No need for anything else the guilt is enough.

Nobody actually said that. And more to the point, nobody actually thinks that.

Most people would be pro ex-cons getting a start at a life outside of crime where they can become functioning members of society.

Laois6556

Nodin wrote: »

.....a short sighted and rather self defeating attitude.

Maybe but just over 10 years in prison for these vicious murderers. Some people might be happy for them to live life happily ever after but I'm not one of them.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

I don't think anybody is suggesting that.

Whether their sentences were sufficient or not is a debate for another day.



Back to this again...

Yeah we're stuck at the same point.

Puddleduck

And yet I cant get a job cleaning toilets, and I havent even murdered anyone