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Three convicted murderers working in Belfast shopping center.

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13567…12

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    #62
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I think it's pretty obvious what my point is. The punishment for these fellas was far too lenient.

    Remind all of us what exactly that has to do with this tabloid, the employers, or these three men going about getting jobs once they were freed?
    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.
    Most evidence shows that the death sentence leads to higher murder rates in general. It is of no benefit go society beyond those baying for blood o, revenge and whatnot.


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    #63
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Maybe but just over 10 years in prison for these vicious murderers. Some people might be happy for them to live life happily ever after but I'm not one of them.

    ....but the fact is that they are out, and you don't seem to have any constructive alternative solution.


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    #64
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Puddleduck wrote: »
    And yet I cant get a job cleaning toilets, and I havent even murdered anyone

    That's where ye are goin wrong then.


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    #65
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Candie wrote: »
    Nobody actually said that. And more to the point, nobody actually thinks that.

    Most people would be pro ex-cons getting a start at a life outside of crime where they can become functioning members of society.

    Why should they be given that opportunity? I suppose that's where we all disagree. I don't think they should have a choice over what sort of life they live after murdering someone, others do.


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    #66
    Albertofrog
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Albertofrog


    Quote: Laois6556
    I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.

    So you would be happy for your taxes to keep them in jail until they die?
    Rather than them work and them pay taxes?


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    #67
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Remind all of us what exactly that has to do with this tabloid, the employers, or these three men going about getting jobs once they were freed?


    Most evidence shows that the death sentence leads to higher murder rates in general. It is of no benefit go society beyond those baying for blood o, revenge and whatnot.

    I was asked a couple of times for my standpoint, I just answered.

    No study has evidence for anything as that's impossible to find. Different circumstances etc is why that's the case.


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    #68
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....but the fact is that they are out, and you don't seem to have any constructive alternative solution.

    Yes, my view is that they shouldn't be out and now that they are I hope they have the most unhappiest lives possible. Not very constructive but there ya go.


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    #69
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Puddleduck wrote: »
    And yet I cant get a job cleaning toilets, and I havent even murdered anyone

    same with me......who do i have to kill to get a job around here:pac:


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    #70
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Albertofrog wrote: »
    Quote: Laois6556
    I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.

    So you would be happy for your taxes to keep them in jail until they die?
    Rather than them work and them pay taxes?

    You'd have to hope that it would take less than 10 years to give them the injection.


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    #71
    Albertofrog
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Albertofrog


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    You'd have to hope that it would take less than 10 years to give them the injection.

    But you stated you would settle for life imprisonment.
    That costs.


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    #72
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Yes, my view is that they shouldn't be out and now that they are I hope they have the most unhappiest lives possible. Not very constructive but there ya go.


    You can work for a living and be very miserable, ye know. The fact is these people did their time, went to get an honest job and have been shafted by the same shower of gobshites that will be happy to whinge when they get the scratcher, or if they ended up on the streets.


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    #73
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Albertofrog wrote: »
    But you stated you would settle for life imprisonment.
    That costs.

    You'd never put anyone in prison if it's money saving you were looking for.


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    #74
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Nodin wrote: »
    You can work for a living and be very miserable, ye know. The fact is these people did their time, went to get an honest job and have been shafted by the same shower of gobshites that will be happy to whinge when they get the scratcher, or if they ended up on the streets.

    I just can't find any sympathy for them no matter how rotten those journalists are.


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    #75
    Albertofrog
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Albertofrog


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    You'd never put anyone in prison if it's money saving you were looking for.

    But we're talking about this specific case.
    Would you be happy to pay for these three to be in jail for forty to fifty years or would they be better off trying to make an effort in society?


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    #76
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Albertofrog wrote: »
    But we're talking about this specific case.
    Would you be happy to pay for these three to be in jail for forty to fifty years or would they be better off trying to make an effort in society?

    I'd be happy to pay a few cent to have them rot in jail, happier if they got the injection, not very happy at all to see them live great lives.


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    #77
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I just can't find any sympathy for them no matter how rotten those journalists are.


    "sympathy" has fuck all to do with it. People commit crime, serve a sentence and get out. They have to have some light at the end of the tunnel if they rehabilitate, otherwise the whole thing is pointless, and society has painted itself into a corner with prisoners. Thanks to some **** in a rag, teaching these people a trade, encouraging them to get a job and the rest has been a waste of time effort and money. It may well discourage from employing prisoners.


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    #78
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I was asked a couple of times for my standpoint, I just answered.

    No study has evidence for anything as that's impossible to find. Different circumstances etc is why that's the case.
    Between the 50 US states conditions are quote similar, and of them only three states (two of whom got rid of it very recently) in the top 22 for murder rates have no death penalty, the other 19 do. And pretty much every state to abandon the death penalty has seen drops, often very significant ones, almost immediately after doing so. I'm not going go derail this thread on the matter, but the only arguments in favour of the death sentence are revenge, blood thirstiness, and a "deterrent" argument that has been shown time and again to be baseless.



    But all of that is irrelevant anyway... your argument is with our court system, which has nothing to do with this story - the tabloid, the employer or even the employeew/ex convicts. The criminals were tried by our court system, they were deemed guilty and sentenced by our court system, and they were later deemed reformed and released by our court system. None of that has anything to do with if they should be allowed have a job or not, if they should be allowed on the dole or not, or be forced to revert to a life of crime instead to stop fro maturing to death. That is the danger of this story and what it has done.


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    #79
    Albertofrog
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Albertofrog


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I'd be happy to pay a few cent to have them rot in jail, happier if they got the injection, not very happy at all to see them live great lives.

    And you know they are having great lives?
    And it's more than a few pence - different jurisdiction


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    #80
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    imo they either get in prison for life or when they get released they are left alone. You are releasing them on the premise to integrate them back into society because they have served their time.

    If these guys reoffend, you can blame the paper that reported them.

    I have said it time and time again. The internet needs to be better regulated and the media needs to be better regulated. there is too much tabloid fodder in the media. There was the guy in austrailia who killed himself who the media printing his drunken night hotel carnage. that was utterly disgraceful by the papers.

    and my advice to anyone in todays society: dont **** up in life, because if you do, the media will destroy you


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    #81
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Yes, my view is that they shouldn't be out and now that they are I hope they have the most unhappiest lives possible. Not very constructive but there ya go.

    So do you hope to pay for their dole for the rest of their lives, or do you hope to see an increase in crime?


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    #82
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Nodin wrote: »
    "sympathy" has fuck all to do with it. People commit crime, serve a sentence and get out. They have to have some light at the end of the tunnel if they rehabilitate, otherwise the whole thing is pointless, and society has painted itself into a corner with prisoners. Thanks to some **** in a rag, teaching these people a trade, encouraging them to get a job and the rest has been a waste of time effort and money. It may well discourage from employing prisoners.

    Back to my original point. How can we know if these people have changed their ways and if they have how can they live with the guilt? It'd be different if we were talking about robbers or other form of criminals. These are cold blooded murderers, once you sink that low you're at the point of no return but that's just my opinion and one that most here seem to disagree with.


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    #83
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Between the 50 US states conditions are quote similar, and of them only three states (two of whom got rid of it very recently) in the top 22 for murder rates have no death penalty, the other 19 do. And pretty much every state to abandon the death penalty has seen drops, often very significant ones, almost immediately after doing so. I'm not going go derail this thread on the matter, but the only arguments in favour of the death sentence are revenge, blood thirstiness, and a "deterrent" argument that has been shown time and again to be baseless.



    But all of that is irrelevant anyway... your argument is with our court system, which has nothing to do with this story - the tabloid, the employer or even the employeew/ex convicts. The criminals were tried by our court system, they were deemed guilty and sentenced by our court system, and they were later deemed reformed and released by our court system. None of that has anything to do with if they should be allowed have a job or not, if they should be allowed on the dole or not, or be forced to revert to a life of crime instead to stop fro maturing to death. That is the danger of this story and what it has done.

    You're right, that's a discussion for another day but those studies are not conclusive as they can't be.


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    #84
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Albertofrog wrote: »
    And you know they are having great lives?
    And it's more than a few pence - different jurisdiction

    Greater than it should be anyway.


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    #85
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Back to my original point. How can we know if these people have changed their ways and if they have how can they live with the guilt?.

    How do you know the person nearest to you won't turn on you? How do you know you won't be run over when you are crossing the road? I've explained to you the problem in general terms, but you seem to be hell bent on repeating "but they're baaad " like that's some sort of solution or contribution.


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    #86
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Billy86 wrote: »
    So do you hope to pay for their dole for the rest of their lives, or do you hope to see an increase in crime?

    Obviously neither.


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    #87
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Obviously neither.

    Well they are no longer in prison, so if you don't want them to have job then your only two other options are paying for their dole of seeing an increase in crime.


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    #88
    CaptainInsano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭CaptainInsano


    Nicolas Cage wrote: »
    Thanks for your explanation.

    It was blatantly obvious that was what he meant.


    Anyway, I love all the 'oh fair play to them for working and trying to have a better life but you won't catch me in there getting my keys cut lolz' posts.
    Someone even called them brave, piss off. We all work, these people don't deserve any credit at all for trying to be normal human beings.
    But yeah, let them have their little jobs and hope they don't kill again, unfortunately it's the only solution we have. I'm not going to shower them with faux support.


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    #89
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Nodin wrote: »
    How do you know the person nearest to you won't turn on you? How do you know you won't be run over when you are crossing the road? I've explained to you the problem in general terms, but you seem to be hell bent on repeating "but they're baaad " like that's some sort of solution or contribution.

    I've said my thoughts on what should happen to them now are not very constructive, I have a different view to you and others on what I think is appropriate punishment for killers like these 3. I don't think they can be changed into decent people and live normal lives. Others don't think the same. People have different opinions on things! Wow.


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    #90
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Well they are no longer in prison, so if you don't want them to have job then your only two other options are paying for their dole of seeing an increase in crime.

    No, you asked what I'd hope would happen to them. I hope they live unhappy, short lives.


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    #91
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I've said my thoughts on what should happen to them now are not very constructive, .

    No, they're not constructive, useful or anything else.
    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I have a different view to you and others on what I think is appropriate punishment for killers like these 3.
    .


    That's irrelevant, because they are out in the real world now.
    Laois6556 wrote: »
    I don't think they can be changed into decent people and live normal lives. .

    But they are no longer in custody, will not be subjected to the revenge fantasy of your choice, and society has to cope with them and others in the best manner possible. You and those wrote that article aren't helping.


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