Three convicted murderers working in Belfast shopping center.

Ralf and Florian

So was it right that they were sacked?All three killings that they commited made my blood run cold reading about them.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/three-killers-working-for-same-hardware-store-in-irish-shopping-mall-30641882.html

lertsnim

How did 3 of them end up working at the same place?

ibstar

lertsnim wrote: »

How did 3 of them end up working at the same place?

you know... "coincidence"

Ralf and Florian

lertsnim wrote: »

How did 3 of them end up working at the same place?

It dosen't say but its a bizzare coincidence.

lertsnim

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

It dosen't say but its a bizzare coincidence.

Certainly is. The person in charge of recruiting them should be booted out too.

Mr. CooL ICE

They did the crime and paid the time. I'd rather they honestly work somewhere than not at all.

They're cutting keys ffs. It's not like they beat 100s of applicants to the role of mattress tester.

Ralf and Florian

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

They did the crime and paid the time. I'd rather they honestly work somewhere than not at all.

They're cutting keys ffs. It's not like they beat 100s of applicants to the role of mattress tester.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.They seem to be getting out very early if you ask me.

dobman88

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

They did the crime and paid the time. I'd rather they honestly work somewhere than not at all.

They're cutting keys ffs. It's not like they beat 100s of applicants to the role of mattress tester.

Hmm.. sentenced to life but you say they've paid the time. Interesting logic. Nice to see the UK system is as useless as ours.

Tiddlypeeps

Is the problem that it's a locksmiths and that they might take advantage of this to gain easy access peoples properties? Or that they were working in a public facing job full stop?

Ralf and Florian

The guy who killed Maria McConnell is the most worrying.Not trying to take from what the other two scumbags did but there seemed to be a strong sexual motive to the murder and people who carry out these kind of crimes tend to go on to repeat offend.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/JAILED+FOR+LIFE%3B+Justice+catches+up+with+killer+who+beat+and...-a085343509

anncoates

Remember the Maria McConnell case clearly. We were in the same club as her where she met that guy and was killed later than night. So shocking at the time because that kind of murder was supposedly comparatively rare in Belfast.

tritium

I'm actually surprised at how much I'm disliking the papers approach. Basically we have three guys who committed ( undeniable horrible) crimes and went to prison for them. They've now been released on licence (bearing in mind they're not responsible for how the system is administered or whether or not they've served "enough" time). They get productive jobs that could integrate them back into society and there's no indication that they've done anything untoward since release or lied to get the jobs. Equally there's no indication that appropriate post release supervision wasn't in place.

Now some tabloid rag sees an easy public outrage story. It brands them according to the person they were 14 or 15 years ago. Tells us they're crafty liars without any reference to any rehabilitation that may have occurred or remorse they may have shown. Basically it gets the torches and pitchforks and hands them out to their readership.

I know I was a very different person at 20 and 35 for example. I'd like to think that the system at least gives people the potential to change and assesses their ability to do so. We wonder why there is so much recidivism but surely running people out of town when they're trying to fit back into society doesn't help. By all means ensure appropriate supervision and take a stern view on any slip up but what exactly has this paper done for society with this piece?

And by the way I'm far from a liberal

kylith

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Is the problem that it's a locksmiths and that they might take advantage of this to gain easy access peoples properties? Or that they were working in a public facing job full stop?

Since one doesn't usually give one's address to the bloke cutting your keys I can only imagine it's the public service role.

TBH I'd kind of rather them cutting my keys than wee Anto who has 47 convictions for burglary.

seamus

Gross violation of privacy on the part of the Sunday World. They fuel the fire about "justice" and then when someone is released and given a bit a of a hand to get their sh1t together, they hound them out, effectively leading them back into a life of crime.

It looks like basically there was an oversight at the company;

Timpson Locksmiths — which employed Colin Boles in a full-time position, and Roy Craig and Conor McCrory in work experience roles — has a reputation for helping some of the most violent criminals behind bars.

So they operate a work experience/leg-up programme for released offenders. That's a good thing. What probably happened here is that only a handful of people are aware of the backgrounds of those they take from the prison service, and so the two work experience guys were placed together. If Boles has served his sentence and is employed full time I don't really see the issue.

It seems like the company will probably find themselves sued here; the appropriate response would have been to redeploy these guys separately rather than fire them. They were aware of Boles's background, he can probably sue them pretty effectively now.

What the Sunday World has done now is ruin these mens' chances of finding gainful employment and basically driven them back to a life of crime. Well done Sunday World, fighting the good fight.

hfallada

What do we expect convicts to do out of prison? Sit at home in their council house,living off welfare until they die? If they are reformed, there is no harm in them working and contributing to society.

tritium

dobman88 wrote: »

Hmm.. sentenced to life but you say they've paid the time. Interesting logic. Nice to see the UK system is as useless as ours.

So what do you consider paying the time?. They're hardly to blame if the current system isn't harsh enough for your liking. They're actually out on licence so can have the life sentence reactivated if necessary.

anncoates

While I agree with the fact that they've done their time and should be allowed to rehabilitate themselves into society, there probably is a protocol (and even a risk to them) involved in putting them in conspicuous customer facing positions in the city centre of such a small city where they might be recognized by family or friends of the victims.

animaal

Meh.

These guys are responsible for whatever crimes landed them in prison. And I can't think of much that's worse than murder. But if their sentences are too short, the fault is with the legal system, not these three.

Rightly or wrongly, thse guys have been released. Once a person is released from prison, they have a responsibility (like everybody else) to work, to support themselves, to be productive for society. What's the alternative? A life of being supported financially by the rest of us?

If these guys were all in employment in a creche, or the NI police, or for a security company, I'd be outraged. But they're not. They're mending shoes and cutting keys.

I can't think why all three ended up at the same place. Maybe the pay is so bad in the place that the only people who take jobs there are those who can't get any other job. Or maybe the person in HR is a big bleeding-heart liberal. Either way, that's not the problem.

Duggy747

Irish Independent wrote:

Until Friday afternoon scheming Colin Boles and Roy Craig worked at Timpson Locksmiths at the CastleCourt complex in Belfast city centre, cutting keys and manning the tills.

Lol, such shítty manipulative journalism

Czarcasm

animaal wrote: »

I can't think why all three ended up at the same place. Maybe the pay is so bad in the place that the only people who take jobs there are those who can't get any other job. Or maybe the person in HR is a big bleeding-heart liberal. Either way, that's not the problem.

Or - the owner of the locksmith company is a multi-millionaire who has a sweet deal going with HRM Prison Service to take on ex-cons as cheap labour doing menial jobs so the Prison Service doesn't have to spend money rehabilitating them or giving them a proper education (they committed their crimes as teenagers), and then when the scheme becomes public knowledge, the owner turns round and says 'Oops, I didn't realise...'

It's hard to know who's worse here really tbh - the Prison Service, the locksmith company, or the tabloid rag.

Laois6556

I don't get this whole reformed character thing. These people killed people, real vicious murders. Do people think that they can go through rehabilitation and re-enter society as normal?
Think about it. If they have can now see how evil their acts were, how sick and twisted they were and see how much pain and suffering they caused then how can they live with themselves? If we're to believe they are now decent, normal human beings then surely the guilt would be too much.

Ruu

Duggy747 wrote: »

Lol, such shítty manipulative journalism

Can picture him now, cutting keys and murmuring under his breath about his next crime! :mad:

anncoates

Laois6556 wrote: »

I don't get this whole reformed character thing. These people killed people, real vicious murders. Do people think that they can go through rehabilitation and re-enter society as normal?
Think about it. If they have can now see how evil their acts were, how sick and twisted they were and see how much pain and suffering they caused then how can they live with themselves? If we're to believe they are now decent, normal human beings then surely the guilt would be too much.

Yeah but if they really haven't been rehabilitated, having a job cutting keys isn't going to tip the balance. They'e just as likely to re offend if they're on the dole.

P_1

Ah yes good work tabloid rag. Take three people who appear to be either rehabilitated or well on the road to becoming so, remove their livelihood and potentially their chances of ever getting work again. Remind me how that's supposed to be in the public interest again?

Holsten

Absolute rag of a paper, some total scum work there.

They're just pushing these men back into crime. Idiots.

Laois6556

anncoates wrote: »

Yeah but if they really haven't been rehabilitated, having a job cutting keys isn't going to tip the balance. They'e just as likely to re offend if they're on the dole.

By right these lads should not even have had a chance at rehabilitation.

cloud493

That piece makes them sound like scooby doo villains.

tritium

Laois6556 wrote: »

I don't get this whole reformed character thing. These people killed people, real vicious murders. Do people think that they can go through rehabilitation and re-enter society as normal?
Think about it. If they have can now see how evil their acts were, how sick and twisted they were and see how much pain and suffering they caused then how can they live with themselves? If we're to believe they are now decent, normal human beings then surely the guilt would be too much.

Where do you draw the one on that so. Is the same true for rapists? Someone who commits GBH? Burglars? At what level should guilt overwhelm us? And what should they do about it? Surely trying to live e a decent life and contribute to society isn't a bad start?

tritium

Laois6556 wrote: »

By right these lads should not even have had a chance at rehabilitation.

You're entitled to that view. Society seems to disagree however

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

I don't get this whole reformed character thing. These people killed people, real vicious murders. Do people think that they can go through rehabilitation and re-enter society as normal?
Think about it. If they have can now see how evil their acts were, how sick and twisted they were and see how much pain and suffering they caused then how can they live with themselves? If we're to believe they are now decent, normal human beings then surely the guilt would be too much.

What alternative do you suggest?

Darkglasses

Ruu wrote: »

Can picture him now, cutting keys and murmuring under his breath about his next crime! :mad:

They're even laughing, maniacally perhaps?

Secret video footage obtained showed them laughing in the store with an undercover reporter.

:eek::eek:

suicide_circus

Fcuking gutter journalism

I suppose there's two sides to how I feel about it.

If someone consciously decided that, having paid their debt to society according to the sentences handed down at their conviction, they deserve a chance to become productive and self sufficient members of society, I applaud their bravery and fully support them. I think it's an honourable thing to do and that the paper who 'exposed' men working for a living and losing them their jobs is a disgusting rag.

At the same time, I wouldn't be sending my granny in there to get a copy of her door keys made in case she struck someone as an easy, vulnerable target.

Laois6556

tritium wrote: »

Where do you draw the one on that so. Is the same true for rapists? Someone who commits GBH? Burglars? At what level should guilt overwhelm us? And what should they do about it? Surely trying to live e a decent life and contribute to society isn't a bad start?

Murderers and rapists. They don't deserve to live a decent life.

Laois6556

tritium wrote: »

You're entitled to that view. Society seems to disagree however

And society is worse off for it.

Mal-Adjusted

Laois6556 wrote: »

And society is worse off for it.

In your opinion.

Riddle me this, as another poster asked, what do you expect these lads to do once they get released? try to find a job or look for the dole/rent allowance?
What harm is there with them making an honest living and paying their way in employment?

Laois6556

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

In your opinion.

Riddle me this, as another poster asked, what do you expect these lads to do once they get released? try to find a job or look for the dole/rent allowance?
What harm is there with them making an honest living and paying their way in employment?

You're missing my point. It's my opinion that they shouldn't be in a position to get a job or go on the dole.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

You're missing my point. It's my opinion that they shouldn't be in a position to get a job or go on the dole.

I think a lot of us are missing your point, cos we don't know what your point is.

They can't get a job and they can't get the dole. What should they do?

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

I think a lot of us are missing your point, cos we don't know what your point is.

They can't get a job and they can't get the dole. What should they do?

I think it's pretty obvious what my point is. The punishment for these fellas was far too lenient.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

I think it's pretty obvious what my point is. The punishment for these fellas was far too lenient.

Please be specific. You're being far too vague. You are just saying they don't deserve a decent life.

What are you suggesting? Life in prison? The death sentence? Eternal slavery at the service of their victim's families?

cloud493

Whats the point of letting them out, or even trying to rehabilitate them, if they're let out of prison to do... what? Go back to terrorism?

Rubberchikken

If they've done their time aren't they entitled to be allowed get on with their lives.
Tabloids have nothing bettet to do than print stories that appeal to a particular breed of person

bucketybuck

Laois6556 wrote: »

I don't get this whole reformed character thing. These people killed people, real vicious murders. Do people think that they can go through rehabilitation and re-enter society as normal?
Think about it. If they have can now see how evil their acts were, how sick and twisted they were and see how much pain and suffering they caused then how can they live with themselves? If we're to believe they are now decent, normal human beings then surely the guilt would be too much.

Thats nice. Put me down as another that wonders what your alternative would be. Torture chamber for the rest of their life? Execution for all crimes?

I am no bleeding heart liberal, and I have no desire to advocate for murderers but what do you do in cases like this? I kinda want my murderers to get rehabilitated, to get up and do a decent days work and start to repay society. Newsflash everybody, there are currently thousands of convicted criminals currently working away, day after day in some job or another, what exactly did you think happened to the majority of ex-cons?

Its easy to kneejerk and feel revulsion at the murdering scum, but this story is not the way to do things.

Mal-Adjusted

Laois6556 wrote: »

You're missing my point. It's my opinion that they shouldn't be in a position to get a job or go on the dole.

your hypothetical opinion is about as useful as a fart against the wind. they are in a position to get a job or take the dole (at least until they were hounded out of their jobs by whichever paper it was)

Can you please clearly state your position in the matter is, and then maybe answer my question.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Please be specific. You're being far too vague. You are just saying they don't deserve a decent life.

What are you suggesting? Life in prison? The death sentence? Eternal slavery at the service of their victim's families?

I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.

Laois6556

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats nice. Put me down as another that wonders what your alternative would be. Torture chamber for the rest of their life? Execution for all crimes?

I am no bleeding heart liberal, and I have no desire to advocate for murderers but what do you do in cases like this? I kinda want my murderers to get rehabilitated, to get up and do a decent days work and start to repay society. Newsflash everybody, there are currently thousands of convicted criminals currently working away, day after day in some job or another, what exactly did you think happened to the majority of ex-cons?

Its easy to kneejerk and feel revulsion at the murdering scum, but this story is not the way to do things.

That's what I was asking. Think what sort of people these were to have killed people in the vicious way that they did. How can sick people such as these fellas become decent human beings without having a huge sense of guilt about their actions?

Laois6556

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

your hypothetical opinion is about as useful as a fart against the wind. they are in a position to get a job or take the dole (at least until they were hounded out of their jobs by whichever paper it was)

Can you please clearly state your position in the matter is, and then maybe answer my question.

I'm allowed to have an opinion, I hope these fellas never live in peace.

Mr. CooL ICE

Laois6556 wrote: »

I'd favour the death sentence but life in prison actually meaning life in prison would be a start.

Thanks for your explanation.

Laois6556 wrote: »

That's what I was asking. Think what sort of people these were to have killed people in the vicious way that they did. How can sick people such as these fellas become decent human beings without having a huge sense of guilt about their actions?

Are you assuming nobody can be rehabilitated?

bucketybuck

Laois6556 wrote: »

How can sick people such as these fellas become decent human beings without having a huge sense of guilt about their actions?

Well, you know what would help? Getting a job and working hard day after day to get some perspective on the value of society and your place within it.

But I guess thats off the table now.

Laois6556

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Thanks for your explanation.



Are you assuming nobody can be rehabilitated?

Look, you and me are not vicious murderers. I'm just a normal enough fella and you're a half decent actor. It's hard for us to know what it's like to be a killer. What they were like when they killed, what was going on in their heads etc.
What we do know is what normal, decent people think, cause we are normal, decent people. We're supposed to believe that these 3 now have similar standards to us.
If that's true and they are no longer sick, hideous people and they now know what they did was evil and wrong then how can they just get on with their lives?
I know if I killed someone, even by accident there's no way I could get over the guilt. I can't imagine what it'd be like to actually murder someone, be thought how wrong it was and then carry on as normal.

Laois6556

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well, you know what would help? Getting a job and working hard day after day to get some perspective on the value of society and your place within it.

But I guess thats off the table now.

What has that got to do with what I stated?