€7.45 for a pint in a certain establishment!

Beefy78

Banjo String wrote: »

I realise Witherspoons, are for the most part devoid of atmosphere, what with no music etc,

Wetherspoons are not devoid of atmosphere. Maybe in the day when they're not full but that is the case for any pub.

floggg

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm not an economist, and the only experience I have in pubs would be from drinking in them.

However, what am I missing here?

Why doesn't some entrepreneurial person with the money behind them open up a bar in Templebar and start charging reasonable prices for a pint, let's say 4-5€ .
Surely tourists and even Dublin folk would go into it in their droves, if someone could adopt the method of making a small amount of money from a lot of people, (enough to keep the business viable) surely this would create real competition in the area and help to drive down prices.

In Derry city a few years ago, the bars there were engaged in a price war, as in who was selling the cheapest drinks. In Dublin it seems a cartel has emerged, and the pubs in that area seem to be competing on the opposite direction ie who can charge the most.

I realise Witherspoons, are for the most part devoid of atmosphere, what with no music etc, but it'd be nice to see one open in that area, if only to shake up the local militia of publicans.

Because:

(A) there is likely a shortage of premises available with planning permission for pub use;

(B) even if such a premises was available you would likely have to pay extortionate rents for it and so a low cost model may not be an option;

(C) even if it was, why would you when all the pubs there already pack the crowds in by charging a ton of money / there's clearly profit in the high price model.


And those prices only apply to temple bar - there are lots of pubs outside that bubble going the opposite route. Diceys is probably the busiest pub in Dublin now, and has queues from the middle of harcourt st all the way back to Stephans green charging €2.50 a night.

ToxicPaddy

Banjo String wrote: »

... Why doesn't some entrepreneurial person with the money behind them open up a bar in Templebar and start charging reasonable prices for a pint, let's say 4-5€ .
Surely tourists and even Dublin folk would go into it in their droves, if someone could adopt the method of making a small amount of money from a lot of people, (enough to keep the business viable) surely this would create real competition in the area and help to drive down prices.

I'd say because of the cost of having a premises there. Just a quick browse will show rents of over €1200 a week just to get a small property.
Then add to that:

• The cost of the initial kit out (bar, toilets, kitchen, stock rooms, cold storage)
• Rates
• Insurance
• Stock
• Staff costs
• Security
• Live bands

and the fact that most tourists, especially our friends across the Atlantic come into a bar, have one beer and stand there for an hour.

The cost of running a bar in Ireland is high at the best of times, but running one in Temple bar would be astronomical.

Yes, the whole of Temple bar is one big tourist trap and its terrible to see them gouging people with prices like that, but any hope a person has of setting a bar up there will be soon disappear when they run the numbers.

I personally tell all my friends to avoid it like the plague when visiting Dublin, sure go have a look around, maybe have a pint, but if you plan on any more than that I'll show you 50 pubs that are much better and more reasonably priced.

Shanotheslayer

floggg wrote: »

Because:

(A) there is likely a shortage of premises available with planning permission for pub use;

(B) even if such a premises was available you would likely have to pay extortionate rents for it and so a low cost model may not be an option;

(C) even if it was, why would you when all the pubs there already pack the crowds in by charging a ton of money / there's clearly profit in the high price model.


And those prices only apply to temple bar - there are lots of pubs outside that bubble going the opposite route. Diceys is probably the busiest pub in Dublin now, and has queues from the middle of harcourt st all the way back to Stephans green charging €2.50 a night.

Diceys is a nightclub full of 18 year olds getting sick every night. Not a pub.

Beefy78

floggg wrote: »

And those prices only apply to temple bar - there are lots of pubs outside that bubble going the opposite route. Diceys is probably the busiest pub in Dublin now, and has queues from the middle of harcourt st all the way back to Stephans green charging €2.50 a night.

Indeed. I've been to Diceys a couple of times lately - a Sunday afternoon last month and then again on Tuesday evening and both were rammed. I don't get why other pubs don't follow the same model.

Dublin's problem, IMO, isn't the high price at a small number of venues - it's the high price everywhere else. People already in this thread are quoting examples of a handful of pubs charging €3.50-€4 for a pint but those really are not cheap pints. It should be easier to find a bargain in this town than it is.

RoboRat

I didn't mind paying it even if I was being ripped off. We went for the experience (it was apparently on of istanbul's best gay clubs) and left after our one over priced drink.

And would also be the opinion of most of the tourists, its a rip off alright but I have seen worse - eg Buzios in Brazil where we got a 2 x sandwich, a plate of chips and 2 cokes and it came to €60, it was a beach cafe and we just assumed it would be reasonable, lesson learnt, did it piss me off. hell yeah, did it ruin my holiday or make me think any less of the place, no.

Anywhere there are tourists and demand, price will be squeezed to the max and the tourists are generally aware of this. They will sip their overpriced pint and either be happy to pay for another, or go elsewhere where they will realise its a single establishment creaming it and there is better value out there.

They don't spend the entire holiday in the Temple bar!

Banjo String

(C) even if it was, why would you when all the pubs there already pack the crowds in by charging a ton of money / there's clearly profit in the high price model. 

Every time I fly to the UK from Dublin for less than the price of the taxi from the city to the airport I thank the lord Ryanair decided to think outside this 'box'.

Ryanair are one of the most successful airlines in the world. They decided to do things differently. Proof that it could work if someone had the initiative.

munchkin_utd

to be honest in this particular case I have no problem with them charging insane money in order to cover their entertainment, which is far more than a normal pub offers - i.e. music all day every day rather than an odd Saturday evening.
A lot of tourists will sit with their one beer (possibly a glass rather than pint even) and sit there for hours enjoying the "free" entertainment. So if they are only going to have the one or two anyhow, then you have to make your profit/ cover costs on less turnover.

I'd actually see hotels charging €5.50 for a (not the best) Guinness as being more of a rip off to be honest.

floggg

Banjo String wrote: »

Every time I fly to the UK from Dublin for less than the price of the taxi from the city to the airport I thank the lord Ryanair decided to think outside this 'box'.

Ryanair are one of the most successful airlines in the world. They decided to do things differently. Proof that it could work if someone had the initiative.

Ryanair went low coat to give them a competition edge. You don't need one in temple bar - just a licence.


I'm guessing you aren't living in Dublin because you don't really seem to understand the area or attitudes to it. It's a tourist bubble, and so normal market assumption don't apply.


Most tourists there aren't repeat custom either, and likely just wander in without any pre-planning. They will likely do for proximity over anything else like price point. Otherwise, they'd wander up to Dame street, George's street or Camden street.

A low cost drinks place would likely really target Irish/Irish resident consumers - and most non-knackery Irish/Irish resident wouldn't go near temple bar in the first place.

And a low frills pub probably wouldn't go down well with the tourists - they want the (manufactured) old fashioned Irish pub atmosphere, a bit of didley-eye music, some cheap Riverdance impersonators an good reasonable lighting for selfies.

Even if they did, I'm sure the Gardai and council would give them hell trying to renew their licence. Diceys is carnage by 7pm on a Tuesday with massive queues.

Tranplanting those queues to the narrow pedestrian streets of templebar would be a massive disruption. And I'm sure the high prices act as a natural moderator in terms of the amount drank by visitors to templebar - drop the prices and you would end up with a lot more drunk people (both tourists and the additional Irish resident people who may decide to frequent the place if the price dropped).

So to be honest, even if you could do low price in templebar, I'm not sure you should.

Banjo String

@flogg.

I'm about 16km from city centre, but I get where your coming from and tbh hard to argue with your summarisation.

I suppose we should really let the tourists at it, tbh I'm more amazed at the bag of tayto price than the pint. :eek:

Dravokivich

floggg wrote: »

Even if they did, I'm sure the Gardai and council would give them hell trying to renew their licence. Diceys is carnage by 7pm on a Tuesday with massive queues.

Tranplanting those queues to the narrow pedestrian streets of templebar would be a massive disruption. And I'm sure the high prices act as a natural moderator in terms of the amount drank by visitors to templebar - drop the prices and you would end up with a lot more drunk people (both tourists and the additional Irish resident people who may decide to frequent the place if the price dropped).

So to be honest, even if you could do low price in templebar, I'm not sure you should.

These are issues as a result of the occasion created by going somewhere with cheaper prices than what everyone else is charging. They are only drinking to excess because they are getting more, for the same amount of money they'll spend somewhere else.

thelad95

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm not an economist, and the only experience I have in pubs would be from drinking in them.

However, what am I missing here?

Why doesn't some entrepreneurial person with the money behind them open up a bar in Templebar and start charging reasonable prices for a pint, let's say 4-5€ .
Surely tourists and even Dublin folk would go into it in their droves, if someone could adopt the method of making a small amount of money from a lot of people, (enough to keep the business viable) surely this would create real competition in the area and help to drive down prices.

In Derry city a few years ago, the bars there were engaged in a price war, as in who was selling the cheapest drinks. In Dublin it seems a cartel has emerged, and the pubs in that area seem to be competing on the opposite direction ie who can charge the most.

I realise Witherspoons, are for the most part devoid of atmosphere, what with no music etc, but it'd be nice to see one open in that area, if only to shake up the local militia of publicans.

Other pubs that are charging high prices would be able to take a bit of a hit for a while so they too would drop their prices meaning the new entrant can't survive and will shut up shop in a few weeks. You are right, a cartel has emerged, whether it's implicit or not determines it's legallity or otherwise. If various pubs actually meet to control prices, they're all breaking the law but if they all do it implicity with no contact (which is usually what happens), then it's somewhat legal. What you've described in Derry city does often happen as well but Templebar is such a niche market-place with a limited number of suppliers meaning the likelihood of a cartel emerging is extremely likely.

EyeSight

On the subject, If a pub doesn't show it's prices and I ordered 2 pints and 2 packs of crisps. Can i send it back if i deem it to be a rip off?
Is it just bad form, or does it count as stealing - since they poured the pints and can hardly put them back

cloud493

I wouldn't imagine the bartender being keen on refunding you.

rubadub

TiltedBrain wrote: »

we got a 15 pack of Tayto for 2 euro in the weekly shop, 35.50 cent profit if I sell them in here!

Can imagine they're getting them for a lot cheaper too

The publicans will tell you that it must be below cost selling, but provide absolutely no evidence. "young lads are pre-eating the tayto on the bus Joe, its shocking".

They trot out the below cost selling line with drink, some publican was posting saying he pays €34 for a crate of 24 heineken longnecks (not sure if that even included vat) -just because they get screwed by distributors they make out like everybody else must be selling below cost. The publicans are taking us for idiots thinking we all believe wholesale prices are the same.

The below cost selling model does not work in the likes of centra near me who had 20 longnecks for €15 for ages. It was rare to see people buying even a bar along with their cheap drink, let alone a weekly shop which is what that business model is all about.

Dravokivich wrote: »

They are meant to have a price list for all drinks served at the entry.

At the door it needs only be a list of 16 items, 1 stout, 1 lager etc. They could stick a low seller like beamish up if they wanted. Inside they are supposed to have a full list available, I have never seen one, though never looked for it.

It is rare to see a readily visible pricelist outside a pub.

siblers wrote: »

Yup, pint of Magners in one pub in Amsterdam cost €8.60.

A few pubs here had pint bottles of bulmers for €8.60 too. I would expect a draught pint to be even more in amsterdam than a pint bottle.

Egginacup

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's an excuse, not a reason. Plenty of pubs provide entertainment without a cover charge.

Agreed and there are plenty of late bars that don't jack up their prices after a certain time either.

EyeSight

rubadub wrote: »

The publicans will tell you that it must be below cost selling, but provide absolutely no evidence. "young lads are pre-eating the tayto on the bus Joe, its shocking".

They trot out the below cost selling line with drink, some publican was posting saying he pays €34 for a crate of 24 heineken longnecks (not sure if that even included vat) -just because they get screwed by distributors they make out like everybody else must be selling below cost. The publicans are taking us for idiots thinking we all believe wholesale prices are the same.

I always new the VFI were spouting rubbish but i had my fill a few years back when their Chairman(or president) was on the Matt Cooper show. Doing the usual crap about raising the prices of alcohol in shops.

He claimed that the majority of home drinkers were smoking while drinking, doing this in front of their kids and therefore putting kids lives at risk due to cancer from second hand smoke :rolleyes:
So there you go, drinking at home means you're killing kids

From a non-Dub perspective, I enjoy walking around Temple Bar and am saddened to hear people constanly describe it as a "kip". I was in Dublin last week and enjoyed aimlessly strolling around the place on a warm day. It's a shame there are so many paddywhackery tourist trap places, and I admittedly have never been there on a night out, but it really seems like an area that stands out from the rest of Dublin and has so much potential.

A few more artsy/cultural places and hipster coffee shops/bars (as opposed to another Starbucks or something out of Darby O'Gill) would fit in there nicely!

byrneg28

I don't see what the big deal is they have the right to charge whatever they like ! It's the guys who pay it is the problem

Grayson

siblers wrote: »

Yup, pint of Magners in one pub in Amsterdam cost €8.60. Another place charged €9.00 for a vodka and coke. Other places then were doing 2 vodkas and coke for a tenner and bottles for €2.50.

I was in a place that had 4 vodka redbull for a tenner in amsterdam. I've never seen it here.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

From a non-Dub perspective, I enjoy walking around Temple Bar and am saddened to hear people constanly describe it as a "kip". I was in Dublin last week and enjoyed aimlessly strolling around the place on a warm day. It's a shame there are so many paddywhackery tourist trap places, and I admittedly have never been there on a night out, but it really seems like an area that stands out from the rest of Dublin and has so much potential.

A few more artsy/cultural places and hipster coffee shops/bars (as opposed to another Starbucks or something out of Darby O'Gill) would fit in there nicely!

That's why you don't understand why people say what they do. People get hammered there. They are getting sick everywhere, shouting, fighting and peeing all over the place.

Ranchu

I'm glad we have Temple Bar. Keeps the hoards tourists out of the decent spots. Any locals that go in and complain should know better.

Every city has it's tourist traps. There are pubs in Old Town square in Prague that charge 4 times more than most other places in the area. It's not exclusive to Dublin.

Thwip!

thee glitz wrote: »

Are you really really sure about that?

Doubtful

MistaMista

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Those prices are crazy. Don't know how people pay that much for a beer. I gave up alcohol almost a year ago. The amount of money it saves me.

What about these Dublin games you do be at?

hiFidelity

£45 for a bottle of Heineken in a certain hotel in Monaco back in 2003, I didn't buy one.

I paid €9 for a pint of Guinness in Paris 12 years ago.

Beefy78

€45? Wow. Monaco is a crazy spot though. Pure money. I was paying €16 for a bottle of local beer in the Hotel de Paris there.

bodice ripper

rubadub wrote: »

A few pubs here had pint bottles of bulmers for €8.60 too. I would expect a draught pint to be even more in amsterdam than a pint bottle.

a draught pint of Strongbow or Bulmers is generally 5.50

Zebra3

EyeSight wrote: »

I always new the VFI were spouting rubbish but i had my fill a few years back when their Chairman(or president) was on the Matt Cooper show. Doing the usual crap about raising the prices of alcohol in shops.

He claimed that the majority of home drinkers were smoking while drinking, doing this in front of their kids and therefore putting kids lives at risk due to cancer from second hand smoke :rolleyes:
So there you go, drinking at home means you're killing kids

Yeh, and they were against the smoking ban (right?) so thereby they wanted people smoking in their pubs killing their staff. :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

even Spoons in Blackrock is a joke IMO. They certainly cant sell themselves as cheap here, "value" they might claim, say you just want to go out for a few pints E4.75 a pint of Heineken in spoons. You can buy a pint in Harvey Nichols bar in Dundrum for E5.50 for christ sake, E5.30 in winters. Ill gladly pay that not to drink in spoons...

The offers on some of their bottles is ok, but compared to one Ill probably be in the Uk over the weekend, the prices are off the wall. You can get 3 bottles of most beers there for £5 and this is in a well of medium sized town...

Billy86

Idbatterim wrote: »

even Spoons in Blackrock is a joke IMO. They certainly cant sell themselves as cheap here, "value" they might claim, say you just want to go out for a few pints E4.75 a pint of Heineken in spoons. You can buy a pint in Harvey Nichols bar in Dundrum for E5.50 for christ sake, E5.30 in winters. Ill gladly pay that not to drink in spoons...

Surprised by that, is t it only 20c more or so for a pint in the Dark Horse only 100-200m up the road (lovely food there too) or Sheehans directly around the corner?