The Sunday Game Thread

washman3

keane2097 wrote: »

He would probably get on terribly and be completely ineffective, and not be in the running for an All Star.

Exactly. you said it all it one sentence there.
Dozens of players could be considered for TOTY and All-Stars based on performances against completely inferior/rookie opposition in both football and hurling.
But something is seriously wrong when a player 'disappears' on the big occasions, yet is touted as top class material because he is 'media friendly'

robbiezero

Stoner wrote: »

Did ok in 2011 versus the McGees, double marked and man of the match.

Got it for scoring 4 good frees. Didn't score from play and was fairly ineffective.
Largely ineffective v Donegal last year also.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

STB.

robbiezero wrote: »

Don't think I have ever seen him double-marked.

You dont watch a lot of football then. Either that or you are not paying attention to what you are watching.

Bernard always has multiple players hanging out of him.

robbiezero

STB. wrote: »

You dont watch a lot of football then. Either that or you are not paying attention to what you are watching.

Bernard always has multiple players hanging out of him.

Well lets just take a not so random sample of every championship game this year he played in then.
In which of these games was he double marked?

Stoner

robbiezero wrote:

Got it for scoring 4 good frees. Didn't score from play and was fairly ineffective

He got is for holding the line and winning primary ball, he won most of those frees himself if I remember correctly. I only mentioned 2011.

Not too many lads win man of the match awards while being ineffective. I'd question the basis of your argument here.

STB.

robbiezero wrote: »

Well lets just take a not so random sample of every championship game this year he played in then.
In which of these games was he double marked?

No. Lets go back to your point that you have never seen him double marked.

Google it. I am not doing it for you.

I already know you are talking out your backside as I watch the game.

robbiezero

STB. wrote: »

No. Lets go back to your point that you have never seen him double marked.

Google it. I am not doing it for you.

I already know you are talking out your backside as I watch the game.

He was not double marked in any knock out championship game this year and I don't think he was in Leinster championship either (I can't be arsed trying to remember if some of the Leinster teams tried it).
There you go. Is that incorrect?

STB.

robbiezero wrote: »

He was not double marked in any knock out championship game this year and I don't think he was in Leinster championship either (I can't be arsed trying to remember if some of the Leinster teams tried it).
There you go. Is that incorrect?

That's not what you said the first time.

The double marking of Brogan was a problem going back some time. Infact so such so that people where beginning to question his effectiveness with Jim Gavin having to come out and talk about the double marking. Of course the advantage is that there are other players not being marked as a result.

Go to sportsfile. You'll see a lot of photos where there are more than one player around him as he is kicking or attempting to in a lot of cases with players hanging out of him like this.



Here I googled it for you: http://www.sportsfile.com/search/bernard-brogan/

robbiezero

STB. wrote: »

That's not what you said the first time.

The double marking of Brogan was a problem going back some time. Infact so such so that people where beginning to question his effectiveness with Jim Gavin having to come out and talk about the double marking. Of course the advantage is that there are other players not being marked as a result.

Go to sportsfile. You'll see a lot of photos where there are more than one player around him as he is kicking or attempting to in a lot of cases with players hanging out of him like this.



Here I googled it for you: http://www.sportsfile.com/search/bernard-brogan/

He must have been triple marked so as Cafferkey was the man marking him from what I remember, and he is not even in the photo.
Two lads tackling a man != double marking.

robbiezero

Stoner wrote: »

He got is for holding the line and winning primary ball, he won most of those frees himself if I remember correctly. I only mentioned 2011.

Not too many lads win man of the match awards while being ineffective. I'd question the basis of your argument here.

Ok, I'll concede the point somewhat, he was still kept scoreless. Aidan O Shea won a few frees too and scored.
My overall point is that it is not really fair to have a go at O'Shea for going missing in big games, when he was being double and triple marked and had to deal with an atrocious supply of ball.
It was a charge that used also be levelled unfairly at Ciaran Whelan, when it was usually just that teams used to plan to keep him out of the game.

STB.

robbiezero wrote: »

He must have been triple marked so as Cafferkey was the man marking him from what I remember, and he is not even in the photo.
Two lads tackling a man != double marking.

Don't be getting yourself all over excited.

Swarm defending. It doesnt matter that neither is his marker. This is the constant pressure he has been under during the chamionship yet he still has managed to score a monstrous tally.

Now lets get back to your point.

robbiezero wrote: »

How would Brogan get on at the edge of the square with two or more men on him, with crap ball being kicked in to him.

Quite well actually. He has done so all year. Brogan actually wanders the pitch. Runs for the ball, has the ability to turn on a sixpence and sticks the ball between the posts, from distance. He is not as one dimensional as AOS waiting for the ball to be lobbed into him. He is constantly running between players and through players.

Would you like more photos of that ? I am guessing you like photos.

robbiezero

STB. wrote: »

Don't be getting yourself all over excited.

Swarm defending. It doesnt matter that neither is his marker. This is the constant pressure he has been under during the chamionship yet he still has managed to score a monstrous tally.

Now lets get back to your point.



Quite well actually. He has done so all year. Brogan actually wanders the pitch. Runs for the ball, has the ability to turn on a sixpence and sticks the ball between the posts, from distance. He is not as one dimensional as AOS waiting for the ball to be lobbed into him. He is constantly running between players and through players.

Would you like more photos of that ? I am guessing you like photos.

I'm going to leave the argument with you there, because you have not got a clue what double-marking actually means.
But by all means keep posting up photos's.

Actually here is one for you that shows what double marking actually is
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/1050898/

STB.

robbiezero wrote: »

I'm going to leave the argument with you there, because you have not got a clue what double-marking actually means.
But by all means keep posting up photos's.

Oh I do. I also know how hard it would be to rack up 6-22, 6-21 of which was from play. What did the mighty AOS get from play ?

I am not even going to re-point you to your original post again as you still don't get it.

When you come out with bald statements like "Don't think I have ever seen him double-marked", don't think you wont be called out on it by someone on the internet!

robbiezero wrote: »

Actually here is one for you that shows what double marking actually is
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/1050898/

And what is your point. You were responding to this post below.

ProudDUB wrote: »

Go back and look at the McMahon goal again. By the time the the ball was released, there were 4 Mayo player solely focused on him and what he was going to do with the ball. Yet the ball still wound up in the back of the net. That is par for the course with him. Does he have 2-4 players dragging out of him for the entirety of each and every game? No he doesn't. But as soon as he gets the ball into his hands and into danger territory, you better believe he comes in for some special treatment. Trying to justify & explain O'Shea's continual disappearing acts in big games, is getting more and more laughable, when lads half his size have been dealing with the same treatment for years, yet they just get on with the job.

I am presuming AOS is still waiting for the ball to be kicked into him. Would someone please tell him he come in off the pitch, the championship is over for 2015.

Stoner

Don't leave Robbie, pop your headphones on.

https://youtu.be/-0BNhOyMhjY

Listen to the first comment about the amount of players around Brogan.

Watch the first score on this video its a free won, taken and scored by Brogan.

Also the final score was a free won, taken and scored by Brogan. That's two points in the second half from frees he won and scored. That equals the same amount that the entire Donegal team put together. I didn't even look at the other clips.

Donegal scored 6 points that day, only 2 in the second half . Dublin only scored 8.

In this game 4 points was far from ineffective.

I'm not having a pop at Donegal btw, just highlighting why he was man of the match and double marked.

robbiezero

STB. wrote: »

Oh I do. I also know how hard it would be to rack up 6-22, 6-21 of which was from play. What did the mighty AOS get from play ?

I am not even going to re-point you to your original post again as you still don't get it.

When you come out with bald statements like "Don't think I have ever seen him double-marked", don't think you wont be called out on it by someone on the internet!



And what is your point. You were responding to this post below.


I am presuming AOS is still waiting for the ball to be kicked into him. Would someone please tell him he come in off the pitch, the championship is over for 2015.

Yes. You have shown me up with your photos of two lads tackling Bernard.
To say thanks, here is a photo for your collection of a Kerry lad being marked by 8 Tyrone lads

robbiezero

Stoner wrote: »

Don't leave Robbie, pop your headphones on.

https://youtu.be/-0BNhOyMhjY

Listen to the first comment about the amount of players around Brogan.

Watch the first score on this video its a free won, taken and scored by Brogan.

Also the final score was a free won, taken and scored by Brogan. That's two points in the second half from frees he won and scored, . That equals the same amount that the entire Donegal team put together. I didn't even look at the other clips.

Donegal scored 6 points that day, only 2 in the second half . Dublin only scored 8.

In this game 4 points was far from ineffective.

I'm not having a pop at Donegal btw, just highlighting why he was man of the match and double marked.

Fine, I'll concede that instead of never been double marked, he is very very rarely double marked and played well enough that day, Aidan O Shea also won two frees v Dublin. Now can we go back to the main point of Aidan O'Shea going missing because he is a poor player or he is double marked on a team unable to get decent ball into him.

aveytare

From what I remember Bernard had a good game against Donegal in 2012, won a couple of frees, set up what should've been a goal if I remember correctly. He did well considering how defensive Donegal were anyway.

Paulzx

robbiezero wrote: »

Yes. You have shown me up with your photos of two lads tackling Bernard.
To say thanks, here is a photo for your collection of a Kerry lad being marked by 8 Tyrone lads

Jesus!!!!

Even Mickey Harte is tackling him

Stoner

robbiezero wrote:

Fine, I'll concede that instead of never been double marked, he is very very rarely double marked and played well enough that day, Aidan O Shea also won two frees v Dublin. Now can we go back to the main point of Aidan O'Shea going missing because he is a poor player or he is double marked on a team unable to get decent ball into him.

Done

I think they struggle to get good ball in and to support him, too easy to predict what he's going to do with it.

Main thing with AOS is that teams can afford to double up on him and do so because unfortunately lads like Doherty and Mclouglin don't contribute enough to register enough of a threat, good tacklers but not great attacking instinct.

I thought AOS was excellent against Donegal.

I think he gets poor ball into him.

When he got the ball against Dublin his only option is to barge in with it. He'll get frees and look hard done by sometimes but refs dont like lads dropping the head and pushing on either.
If he'd a man to break it to he'd have three options, head for goal break to space or break to a team mate. But with nothing but defenders between him and his teammates he has only one option

I think he could do anything Donaghy can do, and he is a better goal scorer, but he was not supported against Dublin.

He also only seems to have 55 minutes in him for some reason.

With Mayos great midfield options, better use needs to be made of him.

He's a player you'd go to a match to watch on his own.

As much as I like C O' Conner he is needs to improve his support play, imagine McBrearty playing off AOS.

Figsy32

Stoner wrote: »

Done

I think they struggle to get good ball in and to support him, too easy to predict what he's going to do with it.

Main thing with AOS is that teams can afford to double up on him and do so because unfortunately lads like Doherty and Mclouglin don't contribute enough to register enough of a threat, good tacklers but not great attacking instinct.

I thought AOS was excellent against Donegal.

I think he gets poor ball into him.

When he got the ball against Dublin his only option is to barge in with it. He'll get frees and look hard done by sometimes but refs dont like lads dropping the head and pushing on either.
If he'd a man to break it to he'd have three options, head for goal break to space or break to a team mate. But with nothing but defenders between him and his teammates he has only one option

I think he could do anything Donaghy can do, and he is a better goal scorer, but he was not supported against Dublin.

He also only seems to have 55 minutes in him for some reason.

With Mayos great midfield options, better use needs to be made of him.

He's a player you'd go to a match to watch on his own.

As much as I like C O' Conner he is needs to improve his support play, imagine McBrearty playing off AOS.

Great post. And I think you capture the reason why Dublin were able to shackle O'Shea. They knew they could afford to put 2/3 men on him because the other Mayo forwards didn't carry much of a threat. Teams cannot afford to do that to Brogan because if you focus on one then Connolly/Andrews/7 or 8 others will burn you.