Way to go Sinn Fein

swimming in a sea

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ohhhh - 'leftys'

Seriously, grow up and try and debate like an adult.

Oh the lefty wit :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

Lastlight. wrote: »

FF will rise again, no doubt about that. Can see them winning the next election.

Good.

Then maybe the electorate will finally realise that FF and FG are essentially the same bloody party with the same bloody policies as we either face into yet more austerity or FF bankrupt us completely for once and for all and we get to start from scratch all over again with the Second Irish (actually really really a ) Republic

Bannasidhe

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Oh the lefty wit :rolleyes:

It's like a creche in here sometimes :rolleyes:

swimming in a sea

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Exactly.

The ball in in SF's court now.

Can they continue to expand and consolidate their grass roots base and be seen to be a viable alternative government?

If they can - and only time will tell - than I can see them seriously targeting the GE after the next one, which I think will be sooner than 1916 if the pull-out brigade win the current internal debate in the LP.

I hope that SF don't jump the gun and try and win the next GE in just for the symbolism of being in power in 1916.

Best result for SF in political terms - but absolute disaster for the country -would be an FF government - however it is possible that FG/FF will ally to form a government with SF in vocal opposition. Even that would be progress as it would signal the end of Civil War politics...just 92 years after the war itself ended (:rolleyes:)

This country is slowly getting back on its feet, SF would just drag it back to the dark ages, tower block homes and ration books for all.

Iwasfrozen

I think the most likely scenario for the next government will be a FF/SF coalition with FG as the main opposition.

This I think would be good for the country as we would finally have a clear left-right split.

Lastlight.

Lastlight. wrote: »

FF will rise again, no doubt about that. Can see them winning the next election.

There is a mindset out there that 'at least we'd have the little bit extra with FF'.
It would be a crying shame if they come to power again. People easily forgetting that the likes of Micheal Martin and Willie O'Dea were part of the last government that sunk the country.

Bannasidhe

LordSutch wrote: »

No of course I dont, and why would I :rolleyes:
but I do hold the PIRA 100% responsible for Bloody Friday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Friday_%281972%29

Which lead to

Daniel Hegarty, a 15-year-old Catholic civilian, was shot along with his two cousins as they walked along Creggan Heights in Derry. The boys had gone out to see the tanks and watch the operation unfold. The shots were fired from close range by soldiers who had hidden themselves behind a garden fence. Daniel was shot twice in the head and was killed outright. One of his cousins, Christopher Hegarty, survived being struck in the head by a bullet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Motorman#Casualties

You seem reluctant to dwell on the atrocities committed by the 'other' side in the conflict.

Why is that?

Bannasidhe

swimming in a sea wrote: »

This country is slowly getting back on its feet, SF would just drag it back to the dark ages, tower block homes and ration books for all.

You got any think to back that up bar your imagination?

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a mindset out there that 'at least we'd have the little bit extra with FF'.
It would be a crying shame if they come to power again. People easily forgetting that the likes of Micheal Martin and Willie O'Dea were part of the last government that sunk the country.

Didn't they elect Hanafin at the weekend and she one of the old guard :mad:

Radiosonde

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then maybe the electorate will finally realise that FF and FG are essentially the same bloody party with the same bloody policiesRepublic

Interesting question is would SF be willing to do the classic third-party thing and coalesce with FF as a junior partner or would they refuse, which could effectively leave no other option than for FF and FG to form a coalition (which would involve some serious pride-swallowing from the smaller of the two)?

I think in the event of a GE playing out similarly to these elections, SF will probably to hold out if they can at least lead the Opposition and bid to lead a government in future (Enda Kenny's comments about them yesterday were interesting, in that they were far softer than usual, and suggest he realises that with the fall of Labour, he may have to keep even the SF option open in future, not that they'd be willing).

uch

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't they elect Hanafin at the weekend and she one of the old guard :mad:

Yep, in Blackrock, poor memories there

Bannasidhe

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I think the most likely scenario for the next government will be a FF/SF coalition with FG as the main opposition.

This I think would be good for the country as we would finally have a clear left-right split.

Since when has FF been left????

Bertie the 'socialist' notwithstanding...

Iwasfrozen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Since when has FF been left????

Bertie the 'socialist' notwithstanding...

FF have always been center left.

Banjo String

swimming in a sea wrote: »

This country is slowly getting back on its feet, SF would just drag it back to the dark ages, tower block homes and ration books for all.

Like in Belfast?

stout_drinker

Karl Stein wrote: »

Everyone outside FF/FG should start speaking of them as the same party any time they are near a microphone or camera. Bring the FF/FG tag-team idea alive in the public consciousness especially with younger voters.

id prefer a proper conservative party but a merger of the above is the only thing which can keep SF out of goverment now , the way things are going , SF will be the senior party of goverment by 2020

swimming in a sea

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You got any think to back that up bar your imagination?

They are in favour of more social housing with adequate services, so how are you going to provide these? not with sprawling housing estates, so you got to build up (they'll reference how it works in Holland etc.)

And go bankrupt paying for them, with the locals turn them all into drug dens..

Bannasidhe

Radiosonde wrote: »

Interesting question is would SF be willing to do the classic third-party thing and coalesce with FF as a junior partner or would they refuse, which could effectively leave no other option than for FF and FG to form a coalition (which would involve some serious pride-swallowing from the smaller of the two)?

I think in the event of a GE playing out similarly to these elections, SF will probably to hold out if they can at least lead the Opposition and bid to lead a government in future (Enda Kenny's comments about them yesterday were interesting, in that they were far softer than usual, and suggest he realises that with the fall of Labour, he may have to keep even the SF option open in future, not that they'd be willing).

They have already laid out their stall and made it clear that they will not accept the traditional roles of the junior partner - i.e. put in place to rein the senior party in/take the blame when they fail to do so.

I imagine that years of power sharing with the DUP has thought them one or two things about making sure you don't get overwhelmed by your partners in government.

Tough negotiators those Presbyterians said she with a shuddering flashback...

tayto lover

LordSutch wrote: »

No of course I dont, and why would I :rolleyes:
but I do hold the PIRA 100% responsible for Bloody Friday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Friday_%281972%29

Are there rumours of British Army involvement with the Loyalist murderers who carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings by any chance?

Banjo String

swimming in a sea wrote: »

They are in favour of more social housing with adequate services, so how are you going to provide these? not with sprawling housing estates, so you got to build up (they'll reference how it works in Holland etc.)

And go bankrupt paying for them, with the locals turn them all into drug dens..

**typed from high up in an ivory tower**

Nodin

swimming in a sea wrote: »

They are in favour of more social housing with adequate services, so how are you going to provide these? not with sprawling housing estates, so you got to build up (they'll reference how it works in Holland etc.)

And go bankrupt paying for them, with the locals turn them all into drug dens..

Annnnd we're back to snobbish elitism again....

Bannasidhe

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

FF have always been center left.

Which, given the have the same policies, would also make FG 'centre-left'

Nope - both are centre-right. FG is a fraction more to the right but only a fraction.

I'm a lefty - I know a lefty party when I see one and FF ain't left - just hideously popularist which is not at all the same thing.

Look back at the FF/PD government and tell me that was left wing. Seriously...

Nodin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which, given the have the same policies, would also make FG 'centre-left'

Nope - both are centre-right. FG is a fraction more to the right but only a fraction.

I'm a lefty - I know a lefty party when I see one and FF ain't left - just hideously popularist which is not at all the same thing.

Look back at the FF/PD government and tell me that was left wing. Seriously...

They're only "left" if you're coming from farther over on the right, let's face it.

mickydoomsux

Just found out that the wife of a guy i know who was running as an independent has managed to squeak the last seat on my local council.

This woman decided to run for office about a month ago, if not less and her platform was literally "Vote for me because you know me!".

I suppose Sinn Fein aren't all that bad in some ways compared to that kind of competition :P

Iwasfrozen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which, given the have the same policies, would also make FG 'centre-left'

Nope - both are centre-right. FG is a fraction more to the right but only a fraction.

FF and FG do not have the same policies. For starters FG as a party are grounded historically in the rural middle class while FF were more of a grass roots movement among the working class rural and urban voters.

I'm a lefty - I know a lefty party when I see one and FF ain't left - just hideously popularist which is not at all the same thing.

Look back at the FF/PD government and tell me that was left wing. Seriously...

FF are a center left party, historically positioned against the center right FG. The PDs were a libertarian party that favoured privatisation.

They may not be as left wing as you but FF were certainly center left.

Bannasidhe

swimming in a sea wrote: »

They are in favour of more social housing with adequate services, so how are you going to provide these? not with sprawling housing estates, so you got to build up (they'll reference how it works in Holland etc.)

And go bankrupt paying for them, with the locals turn them all into drug dens..

Those b*stards - imagine wanting to house people in affordable accommodation and provide services.
How dare they!!!

Do you prefer sprawling housing estates like FF gave us out in the middle of where no one wants to live 'paid' for on tick by private developers and then taken into NAMA?

Why would they compare Ireland with a low density population to Holland with a high density population?

As for the 'drugs' comment - imagination running away with you again there I see. The cutbacks to AGS are faaaar more likely to increase 'drug dens'.

Bannasidhe

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

FF and FG do not have the same policies. For starters FG as a party are grounded historically in the rural middle class while FF were more of a grass roots movement among the working class rural and urban voters.


FF are a center left party, historically positioned against the center right FG. The PDs were a libertarian party that favoured privatisation.

They may not be as left wing as you but FF were certainly center left.

Which is why FG implemented a completely different set of policies to the one FF were planning .. excpet they didn't It was the very same policies.

Ummm...I ain't that left wing actually. Further left than the LP sure but that's not exactly hard.

Fianna Fáil /fɨˌænə ˈfɔɪl/, also known as Fianna Fáil, The Republican Party, is a centrist to centre-right and conservative political party in the Republic of Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il

swimming in a sea

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Those b*stards - imagine wanting to house people in affordable accommodation and provide services.
How dare they!!!

Do you prefer sprawling housing estates like FF gave us out in the middle of where no one wants to live 'paid' for on tick by private developers and then taken into NAMA?

Why would they compare Ireland with a low density population to Holland with a high density population?

As for the 'drugs' comment - imagination running away with you again there I see. The cutbacks to AGS are faaaar more likely to increase 'drug dens'.

If some ass wants to live in a sprawling housing estate, that's there business. Supply and demand, the fascist policy's of FF's bank guarantee scheme was the problem. It should have been a property firesale, busted banks and we would be back in business now..

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Are there rumours of British Army involvement with the Loyalist murderers who carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings by any chance?

Oh no and they werent in Derry for bloody Sunday either It was all one way traffic

LordSutch

tayto lover wrote: »

Are there rumours of British Army involvement with the Loyalist murderers who carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings by any chance?

All kinds of rumours abound, including one which even suggests that Gerry Adams was in the PIRA :eek:

... have we sorted out the Royal family's culpability in any of that carry on yet?

Iwasfrozen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which is why FG implemented a completely different set of policies to the one FF were planning .. excpet they didn't It was the very same policies.

Ummm...I ain't that left wing actually. Further left than the LP sure but that's not exactly hard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il

FF are the party that stuck through social partnership through thick and thin.

They spent money inflating the property bubble from which money was flowing into government coffers from stamp duty, VAT, PRSI and income tax during the boom and it all got spent out again.

Even during the worst of the burst our public services were the highest paid in Europe.

Sensible right wing fiscal conservatives they were not.