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What evidence of Gerry Adams' IRA membership do people need?

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    #212
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    maccored wrote: »
    Rather than posting words that bare no relevance at all to what I asked, shouldn't you have answered me? Im saying you don't actually have a point of view. You saying adams may not be guilty, but yet insinuating that he is. As I say, a handy debating technique.
    I can't stop you from reading between the lines, but - considering I haven't written between them - all you're really doing is making sh*t up and arguing with it. Which you could describe as "a handy debating technique". Or, more accurately, a straw man fallacy.


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    #213
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    You mean gossip? Sorry. Thats just not how law, order and justice works.
    What 'gossip' are you referring to, and again is this a court of law? Because if it's not - law, order, or justice really don't arise.


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    #214
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    maccored wrote: »
    Hey, I could be like some on here and pretend I know things...
    ...like the "fact" that the arrest of Adams was politically motivated?


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    #215
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Excuse me, Im not making **** up. You said earlier "I'm not saying Adams did anything" and yet you claim him to be guilty of something. As I say - holding two opposing views means you can never be wrong.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I can't stop you from reading between the lines, but - considering I haven't written between them - all you're really doing is making sh*t up and arguing with it. Which you could describe as "a handy debating technique". Or, more accurately, a straw man fallacy.


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    #216
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    'everybody knows' - bar the PSNI as they couldnt find enough evidence to charge him on it. The 'gossip' by the way, is the unsubstantiated rubbish in this thread that you advised me to review as 'evidence'.
    alastair wrote: »
    Why would they? Everyone knows he was in the IRA - as was McGuinness post '74. There's nothing to be gained by dragging that farce into the courts.


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    #217
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    Excuse me, Im not making **** up. You said earlier "I'm not saying Adams did anything" and yet you claim him to be guilty of something. As I say - holding two opposing views means you can never be wrong.
    I'd recommend re-reading oscarBravo's posts.


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    #218
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭golfball37


    I have read and studied a lot of the NI troubles and I'm of the firm belief Adams was not in the IRA but had an in to the army council as the Political face of the IRA.

    IE he had no operational role in the IRA but was the Political advisor and spokesperson.

    Just an opinion I formed over the years. He always struck me as someone who'd let somebody else do the fighting as an additional thought.


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    #219
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    maccored wrote: »
    ...you claim him to be guilty of something.
    I do?


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    #220
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    If you had the same evidence - of course. Feel free to throw up anything Ulster Resistance you have, but neither Paisley or Robinson dispute their involvement in that organisation, so I'm not sure what surprise that would be to anyone.


    Has Robinson been arrested and questioned about supplying arms to that group or robbing the Northern Bank to fund those arms?

    There is after all ample evidence of the type you have supplied about Adams.


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    #221
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    A politician is arrested in the middle of an election, held for 96 hours and released without charge? I do think thats a viable cause for concern and 'politically motivated'. I never said it was a fact though, so I dont know where you're going with that line. For me its strictly 'imo'.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    ...like the "fact" that the arrest of Adams was politically motivated?


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    #222
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    so you dont then? Basically we can say with clarity now that you arent saying Adams done anything wrong? Thats fine by me.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I do?


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    #223
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    'everybody knows' - bar the PSNI as they couldnt find enough evidence to charge him on it. The 'gossip' by the way, is the unsubstantiated rubbished in this thread that you advised me to review as 'evidence'.

    There's no unsubstantiated gossip presented as evidence in this thread. Adams outed himself as a 'Volunteer' while he was interned - that's Gerry Adams, not any gossip. Seán Mac Stíofáin stated that he went with the Whitelaw delegation as an IRA representative, not a SF one. You can dismiss his fellow 'volunteer's statements of his membership as 'gossip' I guess, but then it's entirely reasonable to dismiss Adam's denials as equally 'gossip'.


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    #224
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Has he been arrested and questioned about supplying arms to that group or robbing the Northern Bank to fund those arms?

    There is after all ample evidence of the type you have supplied about Adams.

    None of which you appear to be able to post up. Strange that.


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    #225
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    so in the strange land of alastair, adams admitted to being an IRA volunteer but the PSNI still didnt arrest him. Yeah alastair. Of course adams claimed he was in the IRA ... or course he did.
    alastair wrote: »
    There's no unsubstantiated gossip presented as evidence in this thread. Adams outed himself as a 'Volunteer' while he was interned - that's Gerry Adams, not any gossip. Seán Mac Stíofáin stated that he went with the Whitelaw delegation as an IRA representative, not a SF one. You can dismiss his fellow 'volunteer's statements of his membership as 'gossip' I guess, but then it's entirely reasonable to dismiss Adam's denials as equally 'gossip'.


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    #226
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    LOL. Quite how does him standing over his good name impede the peace process?

    Look at the damage the PSNI managed to do. A media circus and what would have to be presented in court (witnesses etc) would only serve to ramp up tensions all over again.
    Of course his responsible attitude to his duty has become a charter for some on here to malign and defame.


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    #227
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    so in the strange land of alastair, adams admitted to being an IRA volunteer but the PSNI still didnt arrest him. Yeah alastair. Of course adams claimed he was in the IRA ... or course he did.
    McGuinness admitted to being in the IRA too - and he wasn't prosecuted for membership in NI. In fact he was mysteriously released from detention. There's been no interest in prosecuting the SF leadership for IRA membership for a long time now.


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    #228
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Look at the damage the PSNI managed to do.
    SF you mean?
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    A media circus .
    The SF 'dear leader' mural debacle and media event, you mean? (the one you thought 'the community' had thrown up, rather than the Shinners themselves - LOL)

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    and what would have to be presented in court (witnesses etc) would only serve to ramp up tensions all over again.
    We already know your attitude to the murder of Jean McConville, but some if us don't think justice should be stymied by any expediency for SF.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Of course his responsible attitude to his duty has become a charter for some on here to malign and defame.
    His 'duty' has been entirely self-serving to date. The truth, and his niece have certainly paid a price for it.


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    #229
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    maccored wrote: »
    He did not asked to be questioned in the middle of an election. 96 hours and they hadnt a thing to throw at him - thats embarrassing.

    He did say he was available for questioning did he not ?
    Or did he say he was available for questioing, just not between x date and y date ?
    Maybe he should have ruled out sundays as well seen as he likes to go to the odd GAA match. :rolleyes:

    So using your argument police forces shouldn't bother questioning most suspects lest they be embarassed.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    ...
    Of course his responsible attitude to his duty has become a charter for some on here to malign and defame.

    Listening to some of the gushing tones around here, I am nearly expectant that adams will be up for canonisation at some point in the future.

    Hell we can have two patron saints for paedophiles then.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #230
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    None of which you appear to be able to post up. Strange that.

    You well know that there is photographic evidence of him and his association with a paramilitary group.

    The point is, is he similarly being asked to account for his actions, has he been arrested and questioned for it? Where is the anguish and hysteria on here from those who want justice for all?


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    #231
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    maccored wrote: »
    A politician is arrested in the middle of an election, held for 96 hours and released without charge? I do think thats a viable cause for concern and 'politically motivated'. I never said it was a fact though, so I dont know where you're going with that line. For me its strictly 'imo'.
    I didn't say you said it was a fact; I pointed out, as I have many times already, that it has been stated by a fact repeatedly and often by many commentators, here and elsewhere.
    maccored wrote: »
    Basically we can say with clarity now that you arent saying Adams done anything wrong?
    We could have said that at any point, if you weren't too busy making stuff up and attributing it to me so you could argue with it.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Look at the damage the PSNI managed to do.
    Yes. The police did damage to the peace process by trying to do their job, while Martin McGuinness bolstered it by threatening to yank support for policing if they didn't back off.

    The mind boggles.


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    #232
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    SF you mean?
    They made a spurious arrest in the middle of an election campaign? Based on the same flimsy evidence you had?
    Even the former secretary of state could see and call it what it was...inadvisable.

    The SF 'dear leader' mural debacle and media event, you mean? (the one you thought 'the community' had thrown up, rather than the Shinners themselves - LOL)

    Yes we know you would like to think a youth branch of SF are not part of their 'community'. But they are.


    We already know your attitude to the murder of Jean McConville, but some if us don't think justice should be stymied by any expediency for SF.

    Ah yes, your justice for some campaign. Keep it up.


    His 'duty' has been entirely self-serving to date. The truth, and his niece have certainly paid a price for it.

    Drag his private life in now, any mud will do.


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    #233
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    oscarBravo wrote: »

    Yes. The police did damage to the peace process by trying to do their job, while Martin McGuinness bolstered it by threatening to yank support for policing if they didn't back off.
    .

    Source for that please. He did not say that, you where not listening.


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    #234
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    What evidence of Gerry Adams' IRA membership do people need?

    I would imagine the irrefutable kind that would stand up in court. Lots of hot air and wind bagging, yet no one has managed to provide any irrefutable evidence.


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    #235
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Too? Are you telling me Adams admitted to being in the IRA? Jaysus ... that some fantasy land you have there
    alastair wrote: »
    McGuinness admitted to being in the IRA too - and he wasn't prosecuted for membership in NI. In fact he was mysteriously released from detention. There's been no interest in prosecuting the SF leadership for IRA membership for a long time now.


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    #236
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You well know that there is photographic evidence of him and his association with a paramilitary group.
    Sure - neither of them dispute that - so you don't really need any evidence beyond their openness about it.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The point is, is he similarly being asked to account for his actions, has he been arrested and questioned for it? Where is the anguish and hysteria on here from those who want justice for all?
    Membership of Ulster Resistance isn't and wasn't illegal. Possibly they weren't proscribed because they never killed anyone.


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    #237
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    Too? Are you telling me Adams admitted to being in the IRA? Jaysus ... that some fantasy land you have there

    Read the thread if you're interested.


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    #238
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    I would imagine the irrefutable kind that would stand up in court. Lots of hot air and wind bagging, yet no one has managed to provide any irrefutable evidence.
    You believe a conviction would be 'irrefutable'?
    You're honestly claiming you believe he wasn't an IRA member?


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    #239
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Source for that please. He did not say that, you where not listening.

    He did threaten that. Everyone was listening very carefully. It's McGuinness' words that will have done the worst damage to anyone on the shelf about SF.


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    #240
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    We could have said that at any point, if you weren't too busy making stuff up and attributing it to me so you could argue with it.

    But you didn't make it clear at any point - it had to be dragged out of you. For some reason you're in heated debate with people over something you seem to agree with them on -ie Adams didnt do anything wrong.


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    #241
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Once again you want me to take a thread full of 'he's in the IRA! I have no evidence to back that up though!' gossip as fact? So in your world gossip is fact, and a person can be not guilty but also not innocent. Wow.
    alastair wrote: »
    Read the thread if you're interested.


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